Liverpool Banter Archive August 08 2016

08 Aug 2016 18:35:27
Ed, is there a problem with my avatar?

{Ed033's Note - Yes, it looks like a cool version of Ed001

08 Aug 2016 19:38:50
Hahaha.

08 Aug 2016 21:38:08
Tell you what Big Al I'd hate to meet you down a dark alley.

08 Aug 2016 22:23:04
He'd look pretty stupid in a dark alley wearing sunglasses.

08 Aug 2016 23:00:12
Yeah, his centre of gravity looks a bit off too, with the matchstick legs and oversized head 😄.

09 Aug 2016 01:36:05
It looks like the dude from Right Said Fred (one for the youngsters there! ) 🙈.

08 Aug 2016 18:14:05
This season is a massive chance for us to get in the top four. With no European football we can really prepare for games and Klopp never had the chance to do that last season

This season Klopp has had a full pre season to drill the team defensively, on how to play "gagenpress" and on what to do at set pieces.

We should at least be looking very hard to score against ( even with migs and no left back ) . With Gomez back we do have a good defender in that role if we need.

With better defense, Origi looking good, plus fingers crossed we get a decent run with Sturridge we have goal scorers. Couts, firminiho and sane will chip in goals.

The teams above us have got better and so have Chavski so it will not be an easy task, but I have hope in my heart. Walk on boys!

08 Aug 2016 18:49:28
Sane🙄😀👌.

08 Aug 2016 20:29:25
Oh dear.

08 Aug 2016 16:17:57
After the defeat to Sevilla I wrote a post about why we had every reason to be optimistic ahead of next season and, now that we've played our last pre-season friendly, I wanted to write a follow up.

The basis of my argument was that, under Klopp, we're scoring enough goals to be top four but that we'd need to improve our defense to capitalise on that. The best news is that, so far, we've kept our big players. This, plus the addition of Mane who's almost the indentikit of the attacking player we needed, suggests that we'll continue to score lots of goals.

The more complicated part is trying to concede less. Klopp is not a defensively minded coach so we're never going to be frugal in this department but we do need to be better. In my original post I said there was three things that would shore up our defense, replace our weaknesses (GK and LB), play our strongest midfield more regularly and have a regular CB pairing.

We haven't really replaced our weaknesses yet, Karius has come in but not only is he injured but I think the glowing endorsements he's received are based more on him not being Migs rather than any genuine analysis of his abilities. As for the LB debacle the less said the better.

Playing a stronger midfield is achievable, Henderson should play more and our back ups are stronger than they were last season. I'm surprised that Klopp's moving away from 4-2-3-1 but a three man midfield may further improve our defense, whether that's at the expense of our attack is another matter.

My last wish was for a settled CB pairing. I believe that CB is one of the positions you don't mess with, as long as they're fit and rested you play the same guys week in, week out. Due to injuries we're no closer to knowing if Klopp agrees, whether Klavan is truly an equal and whether Sakho has burnt his bridges at the club. It will be illuminating to see who starts on Sunday.

Last year we conceded 40 goals in 30 league games under Klopp, to make the top four I think that needs to be much closer to a goal a game. I think our midfield will better protect the defenders so that will save a couple of goals, I also think that our CBs will rotate far less than they did last season which should save a few more. Karius may be an improvement on Migs but I think he'll make less of a difference than most assume. That leaves the LB problem which I think is key, if we play this season with Moreno as first choice and Milner as back up our biggest weakness will remain. I reckon it may be the difference between top 4 and top 6. Bottom line is that I'm hoping Klopp pulls something out of the bag.

08 Aug 2016 17:11:55
He signed 2 more cbs would you rather win 1-0 or 3-2.

08 Aug 2016 17:23:20
Yes, but they are 2 new CB's who do not obviously look like huge leaps forward on what we had previously (in my fairly limited opinion I grant you), and we have not resolved left back.

Plus, I think there is more to it than just personnel, there is a lot of work needed on positional requirements, tactics, and the requisite cover from midfielders.

So simply adding two CB's in itself is unlikely to solve the issue.

08 Aug 2016 17:40:07
There is some merit in the post above. The margins are really tight in the PL now and our failure to improve at LB could well be difference between 4th and 5th place.

08 Aug 2016 17:51:04
Got to disagree and think they have improved us. Kolo as much as I liked him he is coming to the end of his career age wise. And as for skirtel as much as he served us well he always had a rash challenge In him, a shirt pull or a big mistake. Only time will tell. But apart from lb we look stronger.

08 Aug 2016 18:05:02
Interesting post Muscat

I agree that with the goals we have in the side now, the key to a serious challenge is going to be a solid defence.

Looking at 4 separate issues that plagued us last season
1) I'm happy with Karius - mostly because he's confident and vocal which is a big issue with Migs IMO, and we need someone like him to direct the defence
2) I'm also a bit more confident in the CB situation. Lovren and Sakho looked good into end of last season and Lovren and Klavan look to be building a good understanding too. Matip will surely challenge if any slip ups
3) The midfield is still a question mark for me defensively. Generally I'm happy with who we have here, but Klopp does seem to favour Can in the deep role, and while he's a great player and I have huge hopes for him, he has some way to go on his positional sense and he is prone to the occasional loose pass. I actually think Can looks strongest with Hendo alongside him in a 4-2-3-1 rather than using him as a sole DM - Hendo seems to help him out a lot when alongside him and also allows Can to push forward occasionally which is one of his strengths
4) the fullbacks. While Moreno is the obvious topic here, I also think this is closely linked to Klopps strategy which seems to be to use them high up the pitch to create width all the time. IMO that's a major problem given Clyne and Morenos lack of end product doesn't deliver nearly as many goals as it's worth, and our lack of a top specialist CDM makes for a situation where we are more prone to conceding on the break than most of our competition (even ignoring Moreno's tendency to gift the opposition with the odd brain fart)

We need to address this last question asap and my preference for this coming season would therefore be
1) for us to sign someone more defensively sound at LB (eg. Hector)
2) but then also to then play a slightly flatter back 4 when in possession, and instruct the FBs to only push forward aggressively when there's an obvious overlap presenting itself. We now have the players in Firmino, Mane, Ojo, Wijnaldum (as opposed to Llalana, Milner, Allen) to be confident of creating width, pace and goals from midfield/ the wings without the need to expose our defence quite so often.

We may score a few less goals this way (but not necessarily IMO) but overall we will be far less likely to be conceding soft goals on the break, which is how we gifted so many points away to the "lower" sides in the league last year.

08 Aug 2016 18:07:14
Kiddfan, we can't say the 2 new new CB's aren't an improvement on what we had last season when the season hasn't started and Matip has been injured for the latter part. Klavan has looked pretty solid and been praised by a few on this site, I think him and Lovren could go on to form a solid partnership. Haven't seen Matip to comment and although sakho is as strong as an ox he terrifies me at times as there's always a mistake in him. I think our CB's looked a lot stronger going into the season, we won't be relying on an ageing kolo, skittles or a midfield player who can cover at CB. Totally agree with the left back situation mind, I'd love a left back that can actually defend, not bothered wether or not he can get forward. Just defend please. In my eyes Flanno is a PROPER full back, a left back of that mound would be nice. I've only seen small bits of hector and must admit he looked descent, I'd be more than happy if we added him this week!

08 Aug 2016 20:05:40
I think you're probably right that our 4 CBs are better than last year's but I'm more interested in our best 2. I think CBs have to build up an understanding and they have to play together repeatedly to get it. I'd be happy if we only played 2 CBs all season.

08 Aug 2016 22:52:33
Cut out most of the mistakes would be a very good start.

08 Aug 2016 22:58:14
I'm with you on that, a settled CB pairing does the back 4 a world of good, maybe rest the main 2 for the cup games. Saying that, a settled spine of the team is needed and rotate the wide players and creative players. Klavan and Lovren look likely to start at the Emirates next week though so let's see how they do!

09 Aug 2016 00:01:26
Klavan wins headers just what we need from what I seen against Barcelona I wouldn't drop him for sahko nah at least now if you are a cb your going to have to fight an wait to get back happy days👌.

09 Aug 2016 07:11:27
Having rewatched the Barcelona game, it seemed to me that Migs is working on his communication. Was a lot more vocal than games last season. In fact at times I thought he overdid the screaming at his defence to move out.
Plus I thought Moreno and Klavan actually did quite a good job of working together and covering for one another.

Heres hoping its a sign of things to come:-)

08 Aug 2016 14:51:36
Hello Ed any updates on LB? A summer without LB this summer would still be unsuccessful.

Thanks.

08 Aug 2016 15:17:06
Yeah there's been a real shortage of posts on left backs lately.

08 Aug 2016 15:38:37
I don't think we need a left back, the squad is bloated.

08 Aug 2016 17:52:09
Ron, you are joking right? Because the squad is bloated doesn`t mean we don`t need a LB. Those two are separate issues. We need a Left back, end of. bloated squad has nothing to do with it and playing a midfielder there will not fix the problem either.

08 Aug 2016 18:26:34
Yeah I was hoping for a few more bites 😀.
We have needed a left back since Fabio Aurelio left.

08 Aug 2016 18:44:08
More like Steve Staunton Ron.

08 Aug 2016 21:51:22
Can Ballotelli play left back? Or Benteke? There must be a fringe player who we can turn into a left back 😉.

{Ed041's Note - Milner?

08 Aug 2016 11:35:21
Hi Ed001

What do you make of Emre Can going into this season? In my opinion, needs to be given a simplified role, I don't know if he's got the game smarts to be an attacking genius like he kind of tries to be sometimes. When his game isn't simple, he overplays himself too much by running into dead ends and getting positionally caught out.

I'm hoping he can do a Kante kind of role, which is just simply disrupting opposition attacks, and then quickly advancing the ball forward initiating the team's attacks. He has all the attributes to do that, he just needs a little discipline.

Do you have any word on what Klopp is trying to do with him this season?

cheers.

{Ed001's Note - Can is more of a forward runner, more of the way Yaya played at Citeh, than a breaking up attacks guy. He just does not have the defensive discipline or positional sense for it. That is why we were wide open in midfield without Hendo, who is very good positionally. Can needs to be played in front of a defensive midfielder, if anything.

Kante was able to break up play and get forward to support, Can is just not physically able to put in the workrate, even if he had the positional sense to spot the attacks. There is no point trying to force him into a role that he is unsuited to, just hold back the fullbacks or put a proper defensive mid in there. Then he can have the freedom to make those marauding runs.}

08 Aug 2016 12:27:51
Edd001 where do you see Wijnaldum playing mate? I assumed he was brought in to be a box to box midfielder.

{Ed001's Note - I am expecting him to play a few different roles to be honest.]

08 Aug 2016 12:46:06
Id like to see can and Stewart given s chance together. Both big strong lads, won't get bullied, and Stewart naturally holds the middle.

08 Aug 2016 12:51:28
Can really needs to start keeping control of his temper too, he loses it far to often and picks up ridiculous yellows.

08 Aug 2016 13:42:41
To be fair, a few of our senior centre midfielders are big lads!

Hendo is 6ft, Can is 6ft1, Stewart is 6ft.

I don't think their is an argument that our midfield lacked strength or power. I think our midfield lacked goals. Something which Grujic and Wijnaldum will bring. The only other thing it lacked last season in particular was positional discipline, but with Henderson fit and Stewart looking every bit ready to play if required we now have a very good midfield. We are a left back and a right back away from what I would consider a perfect summer in terms of signings. If we just get a left back though I'll still be pleased.

08 Aug 2016 13:54:01
MK - true, except Hendo was injured for our key games last season, Stewart wasn't trusted on an experience basis which left Can standing alongside the fairly short forms of Milner and Allen. We now have created a deeper well of pace and physical power (not to mention height) that mean the inevitable toll of a season will not deplete our ability to be versatile.

08 Aug 2016 14:41:58
I'd personally give grujic a chance against arsenal. Looks very promising and is a goal threat from midfield.

08 Aug 2016 14:43:14
Fans of other teams fear Emre Can over our other midfielders. I'm constantly getting told how amazing Can is by United, Spurs, Everton and City fans.
None of them rate/ fear Henderson and Milner in the slightest. Funny. But That's from an outside perspective.

08 Aug 2016 15:07:48
I am personally not a huge fan of Stewart and feel posters make a lot more of him than there is just because he is a young lad.
He makes far too many mistakes getting caught on the ball in our own half, and doesn't have a very good range of passing either.
A good lad no doubt, but let's call a spade a spade, and not a world beater. Reminds me of how everyone on here thought Coady was the next Big thing a couple of Seasons ago.

08 Aug 2016 15:22:18
I don't think you have to be a world beater to do a job that's required of you. Kante was plucked from oblivion and see how well respected he is now. Stewart may not be a world beater now, but you can't fault his application and his desire to get better. It's not an exaggeration that he can become a highly rated defensive midfielder in the near future. For a player who used to be a full back few years ago, I think he deserves any praise that comes his way.

08 Aug 2016 16:03:47
MK, Stewart is 5'6. have you actually watched him play or are you just going on Wikipedia?

08 Aug 2016 15:47:10
Thanks ed :) Also, what do you think of that fitness coach Raymond Verheijen, that albeit well-credentialed big mouth who criticises every manager under the sun on twitter?

{Ed001's Note - funny you should mention him, I had a conversation not so long ago with another coach who knows him well. We are both in agreement that he is just a brilliant self-publicist who is doing well in marketing his coaching product. The problem is that the product is not a good product, imo. Every training system should be individual, as you are working with individuals. So any of these systems people follow are no better than fad diets. He just criticises all and sundry to create more exposure to sell more of his system.}

08 Aug 2016 16:12:58
He seems to advocate this idea that players shouldn't be trained while they are under fatigue. He was tweeting about how muscles are 'slaves of the brain' (which I don't deny), and said 'tired brain > slower reactions > more contact injuries and twists'. So would I be right in saying that he's a fan of that stupid 'red zone/ green zone' conditioning method? Pull players from training when they are in the red fatigue zone?

He seems to be overlooking that players need to be pushed while their brains are tired, while their muscles are tired, so they can increase their base fitness level. They need to learn how to play under mental and physical fatigue during a match. He then predictably slammed how we played against Mainz 24 hours after smashing Barca, and noted Grujic's ankle twist of how stupid it was, 'because he was mentally and physically tired and shouldn't be playing'.

{Ed001's Note - very much so, like I said, he is just a self-publicist with a flawed method. And I totally agree, players lack fitness due to this stupidity of the red zone. Liverpool used to play a lot more games, the players used to go out and have a bevvy and still had the basic fitness to play many more times due to being pushed harder in training. Shankly's sweat box, for example, used to put them through a far harder routine than anything in modern football. It was compared to torture, it was that tough on them. Because of the way they were pushed, they were much fitter than the modern day player, who is now trained like a sprinter, even though the league is a marathon.}

08 Aug 2016 16:35:04
Exactly ed, exactly. The guy thinks that footballers are sprinters. Sprinters don't through fatigue like footballers do.

What's your opinion of playing two matches 24 hours apart anyway? And how Klopp managed it? I assume he started some the same players twice in a row just to build their fitness levels while under fatigue?

{Ed001's Note - I don't have a problem with it, players should be able to manage it, especially during preseason, so long as they get r&r afterwards for their body to rebuild itself. They will be better for it, if you ask me. I don't know how it was managed though, I avoid taking notice of this time, you can end up getting false ideas of players due to not knowing their fitness levels.}

08 Aug 2016 16:53:11
Surely you watched our game against Barcelona at least? Really missed out on something if you didn't. Yes, only preseason, but still players like Mane were superb.

{Ed001's Note - no interest in moneymaking matches with no meaning.}

08 Aug 2016 18:00:05
Rayman, not a chance Stewart is 5'6, I'd say he's slightly above average height, probably 6ft! Not sure who you are confusing him with?

08 Aug 2016 18:58:11
No rayman, Stewart is 6ft haha. 183cm to be exact.

If you think he is 5ft6 then you definitely haven't seen him play!

08 Aug 2016 21:09:35
Transfermarkt says he's 183 cm, 6ft in old money. He's not 5'6" in a million years. I'll go with that as they're reasonably reliable. I'm not sure he's 100% ready. But also he strikes me as a hard worker, so maybe with a bit of work he could be the defensive midfielder we need he needs to concentrate more and work on his awareness but I wouldn't write him off.

08 Aug 2016 22:32:09
The other reason you want to push people when they are tired is that is when you get to see how mentally strong they are. And they do as well. So when they are feeling knackered in a match, the coach and the players know what they are capable of and can push on.

On a side note, FIFA did some studies into the affect of fatigue and backing up on players. They found that if the players played a match within 2 (I vague as to whether this is the correct number) days, they would be able to play at their normal levels for about 2/ 3 of the second match but then their output would drop to about 70%. So people backing up from Champions League should be Ok but explains why Europa can smash teams. Note those figures are rubbery because I don't have the study at hand.

08 Aug 2016 10:02:51
Good morning Eds and Reds.

Hope you all are feeling as blessed as I am today! You see, it's my 1st wedding anniversary today 😊 I'm off to Toronto tomorrow so please don't all kill each other while I'm away guys lol 😁 hopefully when I'm back in a few weeks we will have a new left back?

Love to you all. stay blessed Reds and Eds

KBjr.

{Ed001's Note - have fun.}

08 Aug 2016 11:17:23
Thanks Ed001 appreciated sir 😊.

08 Aug 2016 05:56:27
Good to see Jay Spearing scored the winner for Bolton. :)

Any idea if they paid the 100k or did our club help in some way?

08 Aug 2016 13:57:50
Nope, we were bastereds about it so he sat on the bench for two months for no good reason.

08 Aug 2016 18:36:01
Pathetic conduct by the club especially, to one of its own. Dreadful!