Liverpool Banter Archive February 08 2017

08 Feb 2017 17:13:01
I agree with Welsh red when he talks of JK having learnt a lot about the EPL and the players he has this season and how he will put things right. My biggest concern is will he be able to sign the players he wants in the summer. There is more than a possibility we won't be in the champions league, also Man U, City Tottenham and Chelsea will be investing heavily so in a list of preferences we might find ourselves being outbid, No I think Jk will have to unearth some unknown talent and hope some of our younsters comegood.

08 Feb 2017 23:47:23
Ever, it may not look like that right now, but I'm confident that we will indeed make the CL this season.

09 Feb 2017 00:18:47
Tottenham won't be investing heavily at all they have a stadium to pay for. If Wenger stays Arsenal won't either and if he goes it depends who they get in. City, Chelsea and Utd always invest heavily with mixed results so I really wouldn't worry about any of them. Let's just hope Klopp has the whelks already in motion to get the players he wants but more importantly to get the current players back up to their level.

09 Feb 2017 08:35:14
There is no evidence to suggest this group has the fight to turn around adversity. However I sincerely hope we can get back into the champs league but if klopp does not fix the keeper and defence issues it will be another frustrating time for the fans.

No doubt coutinho and sturridge will be off and we will buy not quite top quality to fill some of the holes in the squad with the money we get for them. We will then have another frustrating inconsistent season with patches of good form and collapse. Im sorry, i have not been sleeping properly and i am cranky this morning.

I just want a liverpool manager to just buy a decent god damned keeper and centre back pair so we can stop being a laughing stock.

09 Feb 2017 10:34:03
I cannot see Klopp going after another centre back personally. He likes Lovren and Lucas, he just gave Gomez a massive contract, and less than 12 months ago signed Matip and Klavan.

I think rightly or wrongly he is content with our options there. To be fair, it is arguably the system which is making our centre backs look so bad. We only really play with one holding midfielder when all the other top 6 play with 2, and we also deploy very attacking wing backs. The issue is Clyne, Milner and Can in particular all give away the ball far too easily and none of them get back into position so it is left to Henderson and the centre backs to stop an entire team breaking with pace. If our full backs offered a greater threat going forward we could pin back pacey opposition wingers. Teams are just letting Milner and Clyne go though and leaving wide players higher up because they know neither of them can cross a ball accurately (Milner on his left foot and Clyne with either foot! ) . They let us over commit because they know we have no crossing threats in the wide areas and eventually we will give them an easy break away goal to the wide players who don't need to follow our wing backs into their own half!

For me we need to replace Mignolet with a top keeper so Karius has no pressure in the short term. He can just be a patient understudy. Then we need to sign two new wing backs who are better on the ball and can cross from deeper positions. Clyne and Milner are so bad at crossing it in early that they consistently try and get behind the full backs to cut it back or stand it up at the back post. We need full backs who can whip it in as soon as they are in line with the 18 yard box to give our players something to attack from a running start. If you cross from the byline all your attackers will already be in the box and then need to beat 6ft plus defenders from a standing start. The only time we get a good cross is if Milner cuts back onto his right foot, but that results in the sane issue; all the runners are then in the box and have to win it in the air from a standing start.

Klopps system is critically reliant on threats from wide areas. At Dortmund he had Pisczek and Schmelzer bombing forward who could put a cross on a 5 pence piece. Now he has Milner and Clyne.

I would love us to sign someone like Gibson from Middlesborough (a left sided centre back who can actually defend) but Klopp is not going to replace Klavan so quickly. He has shown more loyalty to players from the Rodgers era than we are assuming he will show to his own signings.

I cannot see it. He has 4 centre backs he likes, as well as Lucas for emergency cover. However he has not signed a single wing/ full back since he came. He clearly wanted Chilwell as he doesn't rate Moreno, and Milner is not a long term solution. It is only a matter of time before Clyne is replaced as well. I think Klopp is already considering dropping him for 18 year old Arnold.

I think people may be disappointed if they are expecting yet another centre back to sign.

09 Feb 2017 16:14:09
We cannot buy a new keeper every 6 months. We have two with us plus one on loan. Mugs would move out in the summer and he will be replaced by ward ( unless we sell him too ) . We made a mistake in the summer for not going for a top class experienced keeper and not offloading Mignolet. Now we face the consequences.

09 Feb 2017 18:49:46
And who would that have been, Harry. Cos all the top GK's like De Gea, Oblak, Coutois, Lloris are all taken. I think it's time we created our own GK like Chelsea did with Courtois who they signed from Genk 5 rears ago when he was an unknown 20 yr old, BUT that would take patience cos we all know how fans were "patient" with Karius (a clearly talented GK who needs time and a system to protect him while he adapts) after making two mistakes BUT chose to persevere with a known 3 year failure in Migs. Karius will get his chance when Migs leaves and only then can he be judged. By the way, Hart is useless and NO ONE will sell you their top class GK so again, who would that top class GK be?

09 Feb 2017 18:15:51
Valid point i. e Evered. Without CL we will struggle to get the first choice targets unless you are paying way over the tops. You can't stop others spending as majority would be inside top 4 and have earned their money on the pitch. Klopp will buy more bargains from Germany if that is the case.

09 Feb 2017 19:49:04
United operate a similar system to Klopp in terms of defensive setup, they started awfully but usually Carrick is the defensive mid, Pogba is free to go forward and Herrera. MK.
I can't eprsonally see Klopp sticking with Lucas and Lovren I expect/ hope he moves them o this summer with Sakho.

09 Feb 2017 22:40:41
Noah

Of course you could develop Karius. In not against it. I am pointing out where we went wrong in the first place of not buying established players.

The point is mate you don't have 7 years in England to make a mark. Klopp is no exception. The club rooted deep in debt without any additional revenue coming in need immediate results. And it is pretty much the same case with every club who have a big expense bills compared to average revenue Hence the pressure on the manager and club.

When the money is made available to you try to buy the best available which will improve the first team. What is the glaring difference between Karius and Ward other than 10 league games? Both are Pro atm.

09 Feb 2017 22:49:56
Chilean

Carrick is a world class holding midfielder and arguably second to only Xabi in terms of dictating from deep.

08 Feb 2017 16:23:17
Freddy Adu just failed to get a contract with Portland

I think it's time the owners opened their chequebook tbh. My footy manager 05 said that he'd make Pele look like Jovanovic by now!

08 Feb 2017 19:23:24
I reckon we get him in and put him up front with Nemeth!

08 Feb 2017 22:59:27
I'm surprised no-one has suggested Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. If we could buy a centre back with that name on the back of shirt we would be unbeatable! There is even a Dutch player -meervoudigepersoonlijkheidsstoornis - however tghis one is more suited to manchester united as it translates to 'mental peronality disorder'.

08 Feb 2017 11:38:35
I am going to defend the owners, have they made mistakes? Of course but to claim that they are unwilling to fund the team is crazy.

We have spent cash but its a case of using it correctly. If we spent 10 mil in january on a mid table quality player, would you guys be happy because at least we spent money.

January is a difficult window, teams are unwilling to sell or massivley inflate prices.

The team is struggling but we should only invest when it improves the team.

08 Feb 2017 12:12:50
People are really blindly giving owners the benefit just because of the argument that they saved LFC. They need to get their head around the fact only way to success is loads of money. In today's market and especially this league you would need to invest bare minimum 30 million and 100k per week to get a potentially good/ great player.
Then there is an argument we can only spend what we earn. it doesn't work like that. Who has ever earned success that way? No one
Thing with football is you spend, get success and the income follows. (more fans/ better global franchise/ better deals from partners)
The last argument of people especially Ed002 was that this klopphuss style of footy was not sustainable. Why is that?
Don't spurs play almost the same intensity as we do. They don't seem to tire as fast as us. Again it's just the fact they have players who can sustain that energy game on game while we are carrying passengers who just need one bad patch to just fall through.

{Ed002's Note - I told you from day one it was not sustainable and the reasons why - and what has happened in recent weeks - it has not been sustained. You obviously donm't understand FFP, you don't unbdertand the debts and I have no idea at all why you want to bring Spurs in to this.}

08 Feb 2017 12:46:14
Who had success with reasonable spending? Dortmund, Athletico, Leicester. Juventus have only spent more than £40m more than they've sold in any given window once since 2010 and usually it's closer to £20m. Benfica have mad something like £200m profit in the transfer market despite dominating the league for three years. So lots of teams have spent their way to success without chucking in £100m a window.

08 Feb 2017 12:50:27
Nav,

Spending what you don't have is what gets you in trouble. Football teams are no different. It may work short term but long term (look at leeds and portsmouth as examples) .

Players get tired that's why it isn't sustainable. And we have had less games this season compared to a season where we have european football.

And the owners did save us there is no escaping that. They ploughed money in to the club in the early years but we spent it incorrectly (caroll downing etc) . The owners now want some sort of sustainable club. You can't blame them for that.

08 Feb 2017 13:16:17
Epl is 1 of the most competitive league in world football . feel sry for the owners but that's the truth. We have got massive giants here who spend huge every season to compete for the title or just to finish in top 4 which makes difficult for us. They've been here 7 yrs only once we've have finished in top 4 and have won 1 carling cup in their reign that says everything.

08 Feb 2017 13:56:43
Exactly kopite7
There are teams no doubt around Europe who have done well within a budget. But that case is just not possible in EPL. And Ed I just included spurs in the mix just because their style of play is somewhat similar having all energy and all. Not to compare anything else.

08 Feb 2017 14:06:30
And hjikle for the club's you mentioned, firstly Leicester had I would say the stars lining up for them. They are back to normal now.
And the others are in somewhat in a less competitive league but again with awesome scouting departments. Do you genuinely believe our scouts can find gems?
Yes I am in awe of Dortmund and benfica or players like Renato sanchez (youth product), getting in aubemayang and dembele (early before their price sky rockets)

08 Feb 2017 14:07:14
Nav, parroting baseless talking points over and over again, doesn't make it true or do you have a problem with us living within our means? .

Ed02 has posted numerous times about the way FSG are running the club now based on the abject train wreck they found and who can blame them? Would you like H&G back? Didn't think so. Have they made mistakes? Absolutely and they should be held accountable which they have been. Have they made progress? Absolutely as well so to say that they are not backing the manager, is patently false. They dropped 100m plus for KK, 300m for BR for three years and are ready to back JK if he really wants a player like they did for mane, Wij, Matip (sign on fee and wages) as well as Alex Texeira when we went for him last Jan.

If Klopp doesn't want a player or thinks he's too expensive (Alex Tex), how are the owners to blame for that? And if we have won nothing since they came in then aren't the managers to blame for that or do the owners coach the players and pick tactics now? Nonsensical reasoning, really.

Now regarding the playing style, I don't think it is a fitness problem as such. I think it is an attitude problem in the way some of our players approach games vs lesser teams. Take the B'mouth game. We were on top of them at 3-1 w/ o conceding even a shot on target and then at 75mins, the players just took it easy and took the rest of the game off hence, we got beat. That attitude is the problem, IMO.

08 Feb 2017 15:01:12
Noah, I agree with most of your post, but if you look back on the silly points dropped, most of it comes back to Klopp, we were 3 1 up V B, mouth, but we still had way too many players bombing forward, when they scored their second goal and got back into the game big time, my point, is most top teams would have closed that game down, and how we still have Migs still in goal is beyond me, Klopp, I really rate, but he needs someone with him who knows how the premiership works, he makes mistakes every game now, and doesn't seem to know that you can bring on a sub at anytime during the game, we are not making any progress at the moment, oh yes , but next season .

08 Feb 2017 16:53:04
Nav - you're reply to me absolutely shoots itself in the foot. You've admitted completely the issue isn't what we've spent as what we've spent isn't the issue it's how we spent it. If you complain that our scouts don't make our spend as impactful as they should, i'd say it's hard to argue that point. But you're admitting that it's not the actual final value that matters, whilst insisting that it is.

You don't need to be in awe of clubs getting youth players like Sanchez through or getting in young players like Aube before their value rockets. You just have to be willing to have a bit of patience to find them - don't write off players because they have a rocky couple of months, don't 'protect' young players all the way into a wasted career incase an opportunity to play is too much pressure and don't pine for spending of stupid money on squad players when they should fit the bill!

You write off players like Can and Origi after the last month, you don't deserve an Aube and you'll never find one . You write off players like Ejaria or Ojo after failing vs Wolves/ Plymouth, you don't deserve a Sanchez. It is really that simple.

08 Feb 2017 18:40:56
Spot on Hijkle. what's the point of trying to find the next Auba or Kante, if you won't give them time to grow? Do we have a De Gea in Karius? Per those moaners who got on his back after a couple of mistakes, I guess we'll never know cos instead of backing him in his time of need, they took sides with a blinkered manc with an agenda and pushed him out of the team by forcing Klopp's hand, in favor of a right incompetent Migs and now he's back to costing us goals and points. Had Kante come here (from French second division football, by the way) and struggled a bit, these same fans would want him gone in a flash. Auba was a reject at AC Milan academy. Saint Etienne took a chance on him and he panned out great and now look at him. Bottom line is that if you can't take a chance on a player, you don't deserve the player you want him to be, period.

08 Feb 2017 19:57:51
You cannot compare Liverpool to other clubs on the money being spent. But we have spent enormous amounts in my opinion year in year out. The problem always has been mediocre managers and their mediocre choices who were never going to win a tea cup let alone the title.

Kenny splashed what 100 mill and Brendan another 200 over the top and now Klopp has spent what £70 mill already. All we are left with is bashing at the Owners for what not being a Levy?

All this owner bashing has been forced upon us by clueless pundits who sit and talk rubbish on TV which provokes the fans to trash the owners.

You need a lot more than money to win a title over 38 games. Planning. Tactics, Player management and what more. More than the players Klopp needs to learn plenty on the game.

Can't believe the clueless people are all over coz we couldn't beat Hull and Swansea?

How many would continue this bashing if we smash Spurs this weekend?

08 Feb 2017 22:34:31
Harry are you now saying that people are wrong to be upset by recent results like Hull and a Swansea, WOW.

08 Feb 2017 23:01:57
Maths, In a month we've gone from, being in the running gor a title, and 2 cups to fighting for fourth place. A win at spurs is NOT changing how annoyed the fans should be. We'r going to have to go on a HUGE winning run, with how the other clubs are playing currently just to ensure champions league.
Kenny barely got any time to implement a thing/ 9I wouldn't include the suarez or carrol deals under him really), even so he won a cup and got us to a final. I have faith that Klopp knows what he's doing. I don't understand why he's changed our style slightly.

I certainly don't think Klopps spent vast amounts he's been quitereserved in his purchases and spent within a budget.

08 Feb 2017 23:53:52
Mcgoveb, you are missing Harry's point. You can be upset with results and that is fair. But to start bashing people who have nothing to do with tactics, systems and player output ie the owners, is what is wrong and should be called out as such, as Harry did. Some of our fans get suckered into the media narrative and then get into a tizzy when results go bad, parroting talking points from pathetic pundits whose goal is to cause disruption within the fanbase.

09 Feb 2017 09:11:50
Noah Red, I'll have to take your word on that so, I read it numerous times and can't see it like that. but was late so cheers.

09 Feb 2017 18:05:57
Mcgoveb and Chilean

How are the owners responsible for the the loss against Hull and Swansea? Are you also with the motion " we lack squad depth " all of a sudden?

09 Feb 2017 20:29:24
No 1 is saying the owners are, I certainly wasn't, where did you get that from? Klopp knew what he was taking on, but to say he had the budget of Brodge, is wrong.

We have always lacked ''quality'' bench players. I think our first 11 rivalsany ones (even if Id change the entire back line bar matip) but our bench for me (ed001 too mentioend this at the start of the season) never came close to uniteds, nor for me chelsea. It may have escaped you, but we've consistently with Spurs fielded the youngest average team this prem. The difference is Spurs have Lloris, vertonghen alderweireld.

10 Feb 2017 10:50:56
Harry of course it's not the owners fault we are losing games at the moment. In the same way it was not credit to the owners when we were winning games. Klopp picked the players he wanted and has since come out and said this is his team now. The fault lies with the players, manager and coaches.

Secondly we lack game changing squad depth. Also Harry I've been on the chat many times with you when you have gone crazy about how poor our bench is and how we lack strength in depth, so I'm not sure why you now believe we have a good enough team when you've bitched about the players throughout the squad.

07 Feb 2017 20:14:31
Since he's retired today wondering if I can get your take on Cisse ed01? Always thought he was unlucky with his injury and could have been good player in the prem.

{Ed001's Note - he was very unlucky with injury but I always thought he was a bit too inconsistent anyway. One minute his touch would be beautiful, the next it was that of a donkey with its eyes shut. Could be sensational one minute, the next terrible.}

08 Feb 2017 07:13:53
Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - welcome mate.}

08 Feb 2017 09:38:52
Was he ever angry at Liverpool? I remember he was quite emotional when scoring for QPR against us, he seemed really ticked off.

{Ed001's Note - I am sure he was angry at times. He was brought in by a manager who had left before he arrived and Rafa was not sure of him. He had off field issues as well, personal stuff going on that affected him at times. He always seemed a very emotional guy to me.}

08 Feb 2017 09:39:18
He came to the club with blistering pace if a bit raw and I had high hopes for him. Unfortunately that broken leg against Blackburn seemed to effect his pace and he never quite lived up to expectations. Wish him all the best in retirement.

08 Feb 2017 14:15:39
I'm surprised that Cisse even had a more than decent career after the leg break cos he would late break his leg again while on international duty and it took him 18 months to come back from that BUT still had a decent career at OM, Sunderland, Panathinaikos (top scorer in the league), Lazio and Bastia.

08 Feb 2017 19:39:00
Scored a brilliant volley against West ham, Still one of my fav goal.