Liverpool Banter Archive May 08 2017

08 May 2017 22:24:43
Good 2-1 win for the U23's tonight against Everton. Goals from Ojo and TAA as well as another assist from Wilson . still think it's a shame he hasn't had more of a chance this season.

09 May 2017 05:03:58
Dont forget that Harry came back this season from an injury plagued 2016 season so first half of season was about him regaining his confidence and form. Yes he looks like a much better player this year but he needs to step it up further and force Klopp to consider him.

08 May 2017 21:20:10
Hi All,

I know Milner does just want to do well for the team, but for the amount that he is on and the unorthodox position that he is playing.

Do you see him leaving this summer, i would hope that benitez may see a reunion with newcastle but unlikely!

08 May 2017 21:32:57
He's a good lad, but where's he going to play next season and beyond?

He does a job at left back, but with us relying on fullbacks for width and him cutting back inside to use his right foot all the time, it's not quite what we need. I think he'd do better at right back where he'd be able to cross on the fly, but that's only a home for him if the club are going to sell and not directly replace Clyne.

I still have nightmares about him playing central midfield and as a winger, he'd be a squad player at best.

I'd sell Clyne and keep Milner as a right back and as cover at left back or on the wing. But that may not be the club's plans and even if it is, if TAA establishes himself as first choice right back then Milner's basically utility cover only. Can't imagine him being too happy with that.

08 May 2017 22:12:37
I'd keep Milner too for next season, but neither as LB or offensive midfielder. I think he's sharpened his defensive skills a bit this year and he could come in handy purely as a backup for the central/ holding midfield positions. His main attributes being the professionalism and work rate he brings to the team.

08 May 2017 22:17:44
I was hoping for Leeds to come up I would of thought that would be a nice move for the lad playing at his boyhood club in the prem.

08 May 2017 22:32:21
not sure that TAA is destined for the right back role, have you seen his goal against Everton tonight, also very good assist from Gruic.

09 May 2017 00:53:01
Sell Moreno and Clyne, get a left back, Milner can cover both well.

09 May 2017 01:39:58
I'd keep Milner as a utility player. Can play 2nd fiddle to the new LB we sign, and can be used as a sub for the likes of Mane and Coutinho in games we need to see out after taking a good lead.
Should not be 1st choice though.

09 May 2017 08:47:19
Milner seems to have a super-professional attitude; he is a leader with a strong will to win. We need more players with his temperament.

09 May 2017 09:32:02
yes, I thought TAA was more of an attacking midfielder in the academy?

08 May 2017 17:20:24
Eds in your opinion do you beleive we will sign a CB this summer? A lot has been said about us having 4 already and 1 needs to leave for 1 to arrive but I just can't see that happening. I think he is happy with what he has?

{Ed001's Note - no I do not expect a centre back signing.}

08 May 2017 18:37:21
If we are to be serious about being in the mix next season we must improve the cover we have at CB
Klavan is not good enough to come in when lovren ir Matip are injured
I would get rid and get a better option for the bench.

08 May 2017 19:27:37
Im with you Supermane, personally I would never have offered Lovren the ridiculous contract we have and if he wasn't happy with less then would move him on in an instant, 5th highest paid CB in the PL is embarrassing.

Klavan isn't good enough either, yes we have Gomez but Klavan should never have been bought. If we are serious about being title contenders like the owners supposedly believe we should be then we need to start addressing our problems.

08 May 2017 19:59:42
Tell you Joe Gomez is two good to play at u23s.

08 May 2017 21:00:56
How can u say this Ed?
I though VVD was nailed on.

{Ed002's Note - They are both nailed on.}

09 May 2017 00:13:48
Gomez will be playing first team football next season, nailed on .

09 May 2017 01:03:26
How bad is our defence.

If our strikers performed consitently then it wouldn't seem like sich an issuem

Or course we are going to concede but if were already 2-0 then its not bad.

09 May 2017 06:58:26
Didn't we see with Rogers that KevinKeeganFootball doesn't work if you want to reach the top, if your defence is really weak. I'd like to see a really strong CB and a 20 goal striker who can take those from limited chances. If that can be found within those already at the club then even better. Of the 2 right now I'd say the goal scorer seems even less likely to come from within.

09 May 2017 09:27:34
I would like to think Gomez will step up for the new season and don't forget we have ings coming back, He could well be exactly what we need! Sadly we haven't seen much of him in a red shirt due to injuries.

08 May 2017 14:44:51
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, My All Time Liverpool XI

08 May 2017 14:54:35
Great post, Tris, pretty much agree with you except on players I never saw play regularly, just because its difficult to make a judgement.

I never saw Tommy Smith, and would probably firstly err towards Hyypia, but I would then swing towards Carra, as his covering would allow Hansen to go forward more. I loved seeing Hansen wafting forwards, was like a Rolls Royce! Except when he sniffed the opposition goal, when he turned into a Trabant!

Likewise with Callahan, and I would probably slot Stevie into RW, a la 2008/ 09 Rafa vintage when he scored 20-odd goals, in order to be able to squeeze in Xabi. Xabi's guile and craft with Souness's grit and power, flanked by Stevie and Digger - AWESOME!

Couldn't agree with you more on God. A church-going soldier's dream of a front line - King and God.

{Ed001's Note - I never saw Smith play live either, just on old footage and he was a brick wall in front of the goal. I did consider the midfield you suggest but Callahan has to go in, he is a true gent and a proper legend. There is a reason he holds the record for appearances.}

08 May 2017 16:22:52
Great read Ed, nice one!

Just wondering how you feel that the current group of players compare with this 11. Are there any that you feel are close to them, or any that you think could get there over the next few years?

Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - no one mate, none of them are at that level.}

08 May 2017 16:46:43
I want to put Steve Staunton in goal like in the Everton match 😉.

08 May 2017 16:57:39
It's a shame but you are probably right.

I genuinely think though that if Firmino improved his finishing he could be an excellent player. He has the air of quality about him and his work rate is exceptional.

Coutinho's quality is obvious but I don't see him improving much from here and more importantly I don't see him sticking around very long to become a legend.

{Ed001's Note - Firmino is our best player but this is a whole different level we are talking about. All time greats is players that would stand out in any era, rather than ones who are just very good.}

08 May 2017 17:18:37
Do you really think Firmino is our best player ed? Do you think he is suited to lead the line Week in week out? I like him as a player but would much rather him play in the middle behind a striker. Doesn't score enough to play upfront just my opinion. I would honestly say our best player is Henderson, we look a different team when he is playing.

{Ed001's Note - I would say Hendo is most important but Firmino is our best. He creates enough to make up for any lack of goals scored.}

08 May 2017 17:23:12
Why do you think Firmino is our best player ed? I like him a lot but doesn't score enough to lead the line I think. I think behind a striker in the centre would be the ideal position for him. For me the best player for us is Henderson by a mile, we look great when he is on the pitch.

{Ed001's Note - because Firmino has the best touch, technique and workrate.}

08 May 2017 17:28:57
Ed01 great read. I would have to go with clemence in goal keeper sweeper before all others. Xabi close aswell as rushie but wow what a team!

{Ed001's Note - I have never seen Clem play for us, not even on footage, as we didn't really need a keeper in his time!}

08 May 2017 18:13:51
Not wanting to disrespect firmino or Henderson but if these two are our best we are a million miles off.

08 May 2017 18:34:32
As good as clem and brucie were it would be interesting to see if they could make our defence better now, especially set pieces. Also would mignolet look better behind their defence.

08 May 2017 18:46:55
Interesting that Suarez didn't even get an honourable mention in the second striker list - to my money, he's the best player in the world right now and he reached that quality in a red shirt.

{Ed001's Note - because he was nowhere near fit to lick Dalglish's boots clean. Nothing honourable about him.}

08 May 2017 18:48:00
Great time Ed001, but bit surprised Crazy Horse didn't get a mention.

{Ed001's Note - well you couldn't have Smith and Emlyn in together! I went with the local lad, more because I had got to see a lot more of Smith than Hughes. From old footage to being told stories about the Anfield Iron growing up, whereas Hughes very rarely got a mention and I only really saw him on Question of Sport.}

08 May 2017 19:29:00
Good read that Ed and class team, only changes for me would be Babel coming in at right back and Nicole moves to left as i've never rated Staunton, although as you said he had a great left foot. Rush would take God's place despite the fact that God (and Barnes) are my all time favourites :)

{Ed001's Note - good thinking on that one of moving Nicol across to left back. Though Babbel never really got to show just how good he was with us sadly. Loved him though. I do think, if I let my head rule my heart, Rush would have to be in there. He was just so good for so long.}

08 May 2017 20:33:45
Cheers Ed, Rush had pace to burn and with the guile of the King and a supply line of barnes souness gerrard callaghan etc he would score a hatful of goals. Add to that he was the first line of defence with his work rate and pressing makes him a no brainer for me.

{Ed001's Note - Fowler pressed as well, and he had the advantage of those beautiful free kicks around the box.}

08 May 2017 20:56:28
Very true Ed, an amazing talent. I'll never forget his goal v Villa. I will always think what more he could of achieved if not for injuries etc.

{Ed001's Note - I always wish he could have been a part of one of our better teams.}

08 May 2017 21:20:38
Oh come on! No honorable mentions for Toshack, Keegan and the ultimate supersub, Fairclough?

08 May 2017 21:25:36
Keegan got an honorable mention, Ra ;)

08 May 2017 21:39:58
Ah, okay Zed. Must have missed it.

08 May 2017 22:53:07
I saw Tommy Smith play many times and he was harder than rock, some of his tackles were borderline GBH, and the Kop loved every minute, I saw the great Georgie Best at anfield when he played their for Northern Ireland, he was differnt class . my best player over all the years was King Kenny, every time .

08 May 2017 23:04:34
I'm probably going to get slated for this. but in my time (which includes Rush, Fowler, Owen and Suarez) I'd have Torres at the top of the pile. I don't ever remember been more confident of a win as when he was on the pitch. For a couple of seasons i genuinely think he was the best player in the world. I've also never been as gutted when a player left.

08 May 2017 22:00:04
Great team and fully agree about your comments on Souness (not least regarding him sorting out Gerrard)
Only 2 quibbles
1. The stench of those matchfixing allegations mean I would pick Clemence over Grubelaar
2. Wouldve gone for Rush because he produced the goods for much longer (but its not like I would complain if Fowler was selected)

{Ed001's Note - I can see your thinking and would not have complained about either choice.}

08 May 2017 12:58:56
After the disappointment of yesterday some perspective is needed, it's not inconceivable that we could lose our next two games and still come fourth. I'm confident that one win is enough and I promise to quit this site forever if we get 4 points but fail to get top four.

The second half of the season had been hugely frustrating but when we confirm the Champions League we must be satisfied. If nothing else this season has clearly demonstrated our flaws but we'll be in a great position to address them.

Let's get this season wrapped up and start looking forward again because next year it won't matter how we qualified for the CL, it will only matter that we did.

08 May 2017 14:32:32
This team would be an embarrassment in Europe next summer. Take it from me!

08 May 2017 14:52:44
Like it's been an embarrassment against the top 6 in the PL? Or against Dortmund last year?

Seriously, we may not be consistent yet, but you need to get a grip and support the team.

08 May 2017 14:54:55
Grow up Harry.

08 May 2017 15:29:09
Why would we be embarrassed? Oh I forgot we don't play well against the big boys do we? Oh wait hang on.

08 May 2017 18:54:58
No team that reaches the top four of the PL, by whatever means, won't be able to make it in Europe. Look at Leicester - even when they couldn't buy a win in the PL, and without the midfield engine that made them so good, still reached the last 16 and were just edged out by Athletico. This team, especially with Hendo and Mane back, would manage in the CL. With summer reinforcements, they would thrive.

08 May 2017 21:08:42
Harry, are you even a fan of LFC cos all you do is slate us and Klopp and the players for simply NO reason at all? You really need to grow the H up cos your conduct always smacks of petulance and spoilt-bratism just cos the club, Klopp or the players, aren't doing everything you want them to do.

09 May 2017 07:14:35
Harry's views can be odd but he's one of the few on this site who's opinions are genuinely original. Different views to the norm should be encouraged not attacked.

08 May 2017 12:47:21
Hi Eds,
Not so much a rumour, but a question of intrigue that hit me this morning. Obviously many people have accused Liverpool of being stagnant, and that having been the case for a long time. Putting aside performances over the years for now, there does seem to be some truth to this- by which I mean, going back to when Graeme Souness took over, we've largely finished somewhere between 8th and 2nd. Obviously that's a fairly large gap, especially taking into account the financial aspects of final positions now as well. However, we've never found ourselves to be getting significantly better and actually winning titles (obviously cups have been won, but consistently inconsistently! ), and not falling backwards either (not that I'm complaining of the latter! ) . My question ultimately then, is whether at any point in this 25 year spell, did the club have any option to do something (whether that be hire a particular manager, sign a particular player, something at board level etc), which to your mind would have provided the push needed to become an elite side, such as the sides of the 80s, 70s etc? Obviously a big question, but one I thought quite interesting!
Any feedback at all would be much appreciated!

{Ed001's Note - many times there have been chances to change things. I think every team has those though. In particular though, Moores' decisions have been what stopped us getting anywhere. Not just while he was in charge, but also his choice of who to sell to when he cashed in his not-at-all hardearned shares in the club. He could have sold it to DIC, though they later got into financial trouble, that would not have been an issue if they had bought us, as it was an investment vehicle, their plan being basically a minor version of what Man City have done, then sell up after a few years. If I remember correctly they planned on a ten year period of investment to build up the club for a sale. The only question then is what would have happened afterwards, but we would have been in a much better financial position than we were under H&G.}

08 May 2017 13:27:46
Good question that. I think the failure to capitalise on our successful periods in terms on marketing etc has cost us massively. man U made the most of their success to build a massive financial empire. I think if we had done the same we would be in a much better position than we are now.

{Ed001's Note - failure to increase stadium capacity at the end of the eighties/beginning of the 90s was a major mistake. Moores just didn't do anything that involved putting money back into the club, because then it took away from what he could have.}

08 May 2017 14:42:45
Fantastic question, oweng, and a pleasant diversion from the "will we get 4th" conundrum!

Completely agree that Moore's basically led us up the garden path at a time when we should have been consolidating our 70s and 80s success and capitalising as much as (if not more than) any other club. His naivety/ greed (delete as applicable, I know what my choice is! ) basically hamstrung us whilst firstly Man U, then Arsenal, then Chelsea and Man City took advantage.

Its interesting to put aside the commercial cock ups, and look to the players we could've had that would've made a different too.

I would point to a few:

1) CR7 - 2002 (I think, the year before he moved to Man Utd) a big miss, also Moores, I think?

2) Nicolas Anelka - also 2002

3) David Silva - 2009 (I think) kyboshed by Stadler and Waldorf

I think in 2002/ 3 we could've pushed on from the treble in 2001 and 2nd in 2002 to have a real tilt at the title, and add Silva to our 2nd place team of 2008/ 09 and we would've been right there in 2009/ 10.

What other ones are the Eds aware of that could've made a big difference in terms of titles?

{Ed001's Note - you forgot about David Villa at the same time as Silva.}

08 May 2017 14:57:37
I forgot about him!

Silva and Xabi in the middle, Stevie and Yossi on the flanks with Villa and Torres up front.

Bloody hell!

{Ed001's Note - Villa was awesome at that time as well.}

08 May 2017 18:14:28
Delli alli may be up there now too! Weren't we quibbling over wages with him?

{Ed001's Note - it didn't help that Gerrard was asleep when he visited the club. You would think someone would have woken the lad's idol, as he had been promised the chance to meet him, and got him to sell Alli on the club! Oh well these things happen and it has worked out well for Alli himself in the end.}

08 May 2017 19:44:17
We're we ever close to dani alves or was he just a link?

{Ed001's Note - no mate, he did discuss links with the Premier League recently, as he loves English football and has been keen to move to England for years. I think he said it was Man Utd that he nearly joined, but I could be wrong.}

08 May 2017 21:09:49
Villa is still lethal here in MLS.

08 May 2017 11:57:57
We have to win two matches to be certain of a place in the ECL with 75 points. Arsenal have to win four to reach 74 points and man u have to win three to reach 73. Both these teams have to play at Southampton and united also have to play at Spurs. Man C have a home game against the current Champions who are in good and (importantly) lucky form. Anything can happen. We should qualify, even in 4th place. This may mean a play-off against a top team but there is nothing to say that we will be drawn against the best or that we lose anyway. The worst scenario in any case is a place in the Europa League. We should have won it last season and hopefully we will take this seriously. I would like to take this opportunity to wish Ajax all the best in this season's Final. After that disastrous result for Feyenoord yesterday they may even do the double.

08 May 2017 12:42:15
points tally for liverpool, arsenal, and utd will be 76,75 and 74 respectively, considering we all win the remainder of our games.

08 May 2017 21:10:02
Spot on, boys. In fact, all will be made clearer id Saints do a job on Arsenal on Wed. Let's hope so.

08 May 2017 10:53:22
Gayle and Winterburn on sly sports laughing at the prospect of us finishing outside top 4
Also why do they keep saying we damaged our prospects? Did we not gain a point on utd?
Seriously hope we batter both West Ham and Middlesborough to wipe the smile off a few smug faces.

08 May 2017 21:12:50
Richie, I can tell you that many in the media do NOT want us to be in the top 4, that much I can tell you. They are still sore cos BR got the boot and feel he was hard done by and see Klopp as the enemy. They are happy we didn't mount a title challenge so they use that to compare him to BR as if BR actually won the PL, which he didn't. Now that Utd will finish outside the top 4, they want us to join them. Klopp is still proving them wrong every week as we are still 3rd and CL is STILL in our hands even tho, they are too sore to admit.

08 May 2017 21:41:34
Correct buddy we seem to be really unliked and there always seems go be an undercurrent of not wanting us back near the top, well 3rd or 4th with this squad would be awesome in my book so look out if we do actually sign some quality.

08 May 2017 10:36:55
We honestly bottled it yesterday. Southampton were rarely a threat and were happy to give us the lion's share of possession because they knew we didn't have the tools or the game plan to break them down. I think the players and manager are starting to show a real soft underbelly - I mean we all hope to be challenging for a title as early as next season but with these sorts of players? Does anybody realistically think they have the mental strength to do so? I mean penalties are somewhat unpredictable things but that would of undoubtedly been the most important penalty Milner has taken this season and he didn't score. It has been said before that many of the players in our team lack the mental edge and yesterday proved as much. The only players who seemed to have that drive and that will yesterday were Firmino and Sturridge - everybody else shrank, played it safe and basically allowed that result to happen. It is hard to imagine this team, even with a few additions, having the mental fortitude to challenge for the title, unless there is a dramatic turn around in their mentality.

Thought it was also abundantly clear that we lacked width as well yesterday - Southampton knew this and just packed the middle of the park as they predicted, correctly, we would lack any sort of threat from wide areas. In a game like that quality fullbacks could make the difference and spread the teams - as our build up was so slow, and crossing so wayward, they didn't even need to worry about it. It's noticeable the difference when you compare how well Cedric and Bertrand played compared to Clyne and Milner - like chalk and cheese. This is of course well known but I think games and results like yesterday really hammer home the point. The midfield was turgid too - I don't see the point of having two holding midfielders it just slows our play down and gives us no attacking outlet as the one midfielder further forward is just crowded out. Having said that width was the key yesterday - Southampton have played some negative, dreary football under Puel but it works to restrict teams like us who lack real quality on the wing (when Mane is out of the side) - they've set-up the same way every time they faced us this season (sit narrow and deep, hit on the counter) and it's worked every time - the only game we were unlucky in was the first game at their place when our work rate and movement caused them problems - in the other 3 games we barely even threatened them. Isn't good enough for a team with aspirations of titles.

We should've had CL qualification weeks ago - that it's still in the balance is testiment to how poor we have been in the second half of the season. West Ham away next? That is a really tough fixture and one we have struggled with in the past - if we produce the sort of limp display we showed against Southampton we could be in real trouble - CL is nowhere near a foregone conclusion.

How would posters/ Ed's set up against West Ham and why?

08 May 2017 11:33:18
Quite simply, if he's capable of it, start Studge. He's our only available player with the cutting edge to break down a stubborn defence.

08 May 2017 13:06:07
I don't think Milners pen can be called a lack of bottle or mental edge. He didn't miss the target he didn't fluff it. It was a well struck well directed pen and a top class save from Forster who guessed correctly and went full pelt to get a hand on it.
I do agree that some of the team are playing scared though. Scared to take on a man, scared to try a cross and scared to make a quick pass for fear of losing the ball.
I really hope we qualify for champs and it gives some of the team that experience and confidence they so obviously need.
I am optimistic that when we sign some fullbacks in the summer that it will make a difference. Creating some width that will allow more space in the middle. And some threatening balls in to the box. ATM were too easy to predict and teams set up accordingly. But when they don't know if we're Gona go to the byline and whip it in or cut back and pass inside then it will hopefully create some doubt, space and mistakes from the opposition.
Hoping klopp has learnt a lot from this season and really adresses our problems effectively. Injuries haven't helped in the run in but I really think it comes down to being figured out but not having the personnel to change too much. I have faith in klopp to get it right. And despite the disappointing fall in the league I think when you take into consideration our previous two league campaigns and the teams were battling for top four against its a long way from under achievement.
I think he's given the current players enough time now to know who can improve us and who can't.

{Ed001's Note - it was not in the corner, so it was not well directed. He was not aiming to put it at that height or that position of the goal. He would have been aiming to put it right next to the post and along the ground, to make it as difficult as possible to stop. So he did fluff it, as he himself said very well in his post-match interview. Though I disagreed when he said that meant it was his fault we didn't win. You win as a team and you lose as a team, the entire team were at fault we didn't win.}

08 May 2017 16:26:14
Milner hasn't missed a penalty all season and Forster hasn't saved one. It happens in football and I agree that Milner can't take all the blame. No cutting edge but hopefully some improved performances to come.

08 May 2017 21:14:31
Seano, I get your frustration overall BUT if we could all see the future, it would be a lot easier to plan for it so I don't fault Klopp that much even tho, he can always improve and learn from things. We are struggling on to the finish line right now and the injuries we have had do not help BUT we have to stay positive and we have shown that we can be solid away from home and grind out results when needed so I would go into the WH game (esp. if Arsenal bottle it vs Saints in midweek) by keeping it tight at the back, don't get beat and then try take the 2/ 3 chances we get like we did vs WB, Stoke and Watford. Why? Since CL is still in our hands (cos we were able to beat and take points off our rivals hence, affecting their results directly) you don't wanna get beat. You secure the point you got at the start and try to improve on it. If you can't, get a point and finish the job vs Boro at home the following week.

08 May 2017 08:36:00
Match of the day fever but
Adrian and lanzini anyone?

08 May 2017 09:19:21
Adrian is definitely MOTD fever mate. You have to be a bad keeper to struggle to dislodge Darren Randolph!

However, Lanzini really is a class above the rest of his team except maybe Antonio. Lanzini has that excellent acceleration and low centre of gravity that players like Aguero and Messi have. Obviously he isn't in their league and he plays in a deeper role, but his passing is just so well thought out. He sees the next pass or two when he plays his own. Classic example is how Lallana and Can will play a pass in to someone's feet (even behind them! ) or take an extra touch before playing it. That is because all they are thinking about is not losing the ball and they play in the moment rather than being ahead of everyone else. It makes us slow and predictable. Lanzini when he receives the ball instantly turns to face the opposition and he either makes a purposeful drive forward, drills a pass in between the lines, or plays it into space for people to run on to. He is a quick thinker and that opens teams up.

Forget his goal against Spurs. Goals are not the most important part of his game. He actually had a fairly average game at Spurs aside from his goal. He should've put one on a plate for Calleri but on that rare occasion lost his composure. His game is about making very good decisions on the ball (more often than not) and starting quick and incisive attacking moves from deep. He would be a dream in behind players like Mane and Firmino. However so would Coutinho if we had a left forward!

Lanzini would be a great signing but only if we moved on Lallana or Coutinho. He would also need to play in attacking midfield, not on the left wing. He is better when he can open the game up ahead of him, not when he has to make runs into the space of the ball. Much like Coutinho in that respect.

08 May 2017 10:39:00
Lanzini is good but he blows very hot and cold and lacks the consistency for me - not sure I'd be happy if we moved for him, think their are players more suited to us our there. Also think we need to be aiming for a higher tier of quality if we are talking about replacing Coutinho - signing Lanzini would just be doing the same thing we did with Suarez, not replacing like-for-like quality.

08 May 2017 21:16:00
Spot on, Seano. Lazini is the one-eyed king in the land of the blind. LFC have very good vision and he would not make it here as he is NOT consistent enough in his perfs. I'll pass on him. Besides, we need wide player with pace who can get behind parked buses, not players similar to the ones we already have.

08 May 2017 04:28:00
Dear Ed's

There is nothing to complain about the results yesterday. Being a Liverpool fan we already had experienced this before, not our first time that we couldn't break the defence.

I am not an expert but why don't Managers tackle this issue or try to tweak the formation to overcome a defensive side?

In my view playing 2 strikers upfront would be an option in these types of games.

{Ed001's Note - we already have tweaked it, but out of fear because it was clear that Klopp was too worried about being caught on the break yesterday. That is why we played with two at the base, rather than just Lucas, it was Lucas and Can, to protect the centre backs. Obviously we were looking for control of the ball and then try and draw them out by passing it around to create spaces. However there was no movement to draw them out and our passing was too slow and poor to create gaps. If you are going to pass it across, it has to be along the ground for a quick control, rather than bobbling up around waist height where it is hard to control when being closed down. You have to be thinking about whether you can get your foot up that high and take control of the ball before the opponent can get to you. Rather than just moving it on. Also the passing is just far too slow, it is being rolled, rather than passed with pace. We are playing it so slow they had time to all shift across and hold a nice safe formation intact. If you have no pace in the team, you have to put pace on the ball, use that to do the quick movement. A crossfield pass drifted across may look nice and can be pinpoint, but all it does is give them time to all shuffle across to face up the ball again. Fire it across and you have, or should have, a gap to attack.}

08 May 2017 05:27:10
I thought the subs were the right ones to come on, just could have been made earlier. Sturridge did more in twenty five minutes than Origi had done all game, and the last one for that matter.
Remember, two really good saves stopped it being a "comfortable" 2 nil, the penalty and Grujic's header. Did they have a shot on target?
Sometimes I wonder whether we'd be better off letting them have a bit more of the ball to try and draw them out and create some space. We press and win the ball back well high up the field, but they've normally got at least half a dozen behind the ball at that stage.

{Ed001's Note - we didn't press though, we are too scared of being caught on the break and the press has vanished. If we had pressed we might have scored.}

08 May 2017 06:24:32
I say we go all out against West Ham. A draw is no good for us, so its either make or break. Sturridge and Firmino up top with Couts behind them. Lallana, Can and Gini in midfield and TAA and Milner as the fullbacks. Might as well experiment high risk than settle for another drab draw.

08 May 2017 06:30:59
So basically the midfield and forward line has no faith in our defenders to tackle any counter attack situations? Great news that we go into next season with the same CBs that do not have even the trust of their own team mates. So im thinking at least 6 new players in the summer if Klopp is to even come close to fulfilling his promise to FSG of winning the BPL and doing well in the UCL. And these players should improve not only the squad but also the first team, though I highly doubt that's going to happen considering the key word in LFC's transfer approach is 'potential. '

{Ed001's Note - oh for....... I give up. You really are not reading a bloody thing I type so why should I bother reading or replying to you?

I hate this site after anything other than a win, it just shows up what a bunch of pathetic spoilt brats Liverpool fans are. All the ridiculous FM fantasies of buying hundreds of players each season, with no thought of how it disrupts the team when you change half of it. But its ok so long as you have those new players to masturbate over!}

08 May 2017 08:11:24
Ed, that's one of the best and most accurate posts I've ever seen on here. Maybe a bit harsh on IB as I find him to be one of the more positive posters, but I can fully appreciate why you're left grinding your teeth when we don't win.
Welcome to Sky Generation football supporters!
How many do you think actually played the game at all?
Judging by the posts I see, very few. but there's plenty of "experts".

{Ed001's Note - I am not sure that having been a player makes you an expert. Robbie Savage and Michael Owen are examples of former pros with nothing in the way of insight.}

08 May 2017 09:41:57
At least we look good at the back but that's been most of the time with lovren and Matip

I love Lucas and I think he's help out this last month but he can pass the ball like hendo or shoot like him so teams let Lucas have the ball.

We also miss Lallana when he plays it makes as play faster and coutinho does not feel he needs to drop deep.

We do miss a class st in my eyes and a wide player but that's just my opinion.

08 May 2017 10:56:53
Hi. I'm definitely no expert on tactics etc But If you think about it the only way you increase the pace of the game is to press the ball quickly, forcing the opposition to play the ball quicker than they would like and hopefully causing an error which turns the play rapidly in your favour
I think that is our style of play under Klopp.
It seems to me that Southampton were set up take advantage of this pressing tactic by defending deep and to hopefully catch us on a break as other teams had done this season.
As Ed correctly said above that Klopp countered this threat by having 2 holding midfielderso.

So really both teams tactics cancelled each otber out.

Disappointing though it was at least wevery drew and not caught with the suckered punch.

To sum up. Liverpool tried attaching for most of the game but ended up playing games across the pitch with the passers-by standing still after playing the ball is stead of moving forward to recieved a return pass and create pro less for the defence. which could lead to a set piece or a goal

I wonder if in the last 10 if we had put lovren or matip up front and went route 1 to force the issue
But that's why Klopp there.


Sorry for the monologue.

08 May 2017 12:23:11
Have to agree passing was way too slow. The only hope was when Sturridge, Lallana and even Grujic were brought on.

I really feel we need Vardy type of player who can run alone with ball.
We did had few counter attacks but were too slow to pass and run.
Have watched Chelsea's counter attack and we are no where near them.

All those NEWS about Nutrition specialist from Germany and all was a joke I guess. Hope these people do their job to get Liverpool players up and running.

08 May 2017 12:56:46
I agee with ed01 that we miss mane as the only player who runs in behind being an issue. I also think that because we are so narrow up top we are really reliant on our fullback offering real quality in the final third as they get plenty of the ball. Clyne again yesterday whilst solid enough defensively (albeit against zero attacking from Saints) he really struggled to deliver a single quality final pass.

All too often Clyne plays the ball square or backwards which to be fair might be partly due to having no third man runners. Also Milner has become really predictable and gets two thirds of the way up the pitch cuts inside and crosses from too deep to trouble the opponent.

With the cover we are playing with in centre midfield we really need our fullbacks pushing on but they also require the quality once in possession. The first substitution I would have made yesterday was TAA on for Clyne. I'd be tempted in the final game to play both TAA and Moreno.

08 May 2017 21:19:00
Dermot. Klopp was being pragmatic cos he understood that at this stage, not losing was more important and he kept a solid shape to negate a fatal counter attack that could have devastated us and that is fine. Now if you are going to do that, you need to move the ball quickly to break them down esp, with no pace in behind and no quality balls from the FB's. That did not happen yesterday and that was disappointing.

But we did get a penalty (which was the only way we were going to score, really) and Milner did not place it accurately enough to beat a 6ft 7inch NBA power forward in Forster. All in all, it was a good point as CL is still ours to lose and at this point, that's all you can hope for going into the weekend.

08 May 2017 02:06:33
A few thoughts from the game

First of all, that is a game we could so easily have lost in the past so hats off for a clean sheet and a well marshalled Defence. could be crucial

However i think it's also fair we made life difficult for ourselves going forward for a number of reasons
1 - I understand a midfield of Lucas, Can, Gini gives us stability, but it also lacks the creativity, intensity and movement required to break down teams IMO. movement and energy was exceedingly flat across the whole team in fact, very few dangerous runs being made anywhere on he Park
2 - Which often resulted in Coutinho dropping into midfield to create something. looked pretty deliberate, but it also left limited options on the wing in his place which narrowed the game even more
3 - likewise if was rare to see anyone trying to get in behind from the right. Firmino is an outstanding player but not blessed with the yard of pace required and he tends to cut inside, and Clyne going forward is frankly poor
4 - Origi struggles without space. sorry but he's still developing and they found it too easy to shackle him without being pulled wide or out of shape. He needs to move more to create space for others
5 - Those rare times we did turn over the ball with their team not in a deep Defence, we just didn't move the ball forward fast enough to capitalise on their lack of defensive organisation
6 - Finally he also changed things up way too late. It was obvious the changes we needed (and he made the right ones) but why did we only give them 20mins? I was almost anticipating changes at half time given how flat we were. or at least on 60mins

So with a more defensively minded midfield, limited movement and intensity to pull their defence out of shape, limited threat from out wide and a lack of killer in the box, we just struggled to look dangerous.

I think it's obvious we need to bring in a real winger and some FBs next year but I'm still disappointed Klopp went this route and didn't try to pose more of a threat at home.

For West Ham I sincerely hope we see a midfield of Can, Gini and Llalana and I'd also go with a front line of Coutinho, Firmino and Sturridge. I'd also be badly tempted to play Milner at RB and Moreno LB. We need to win the next two.

{Ed001's Note - 2 is wrong, Coutinho drops because he likes to do it, which is why I prefer him to have a deeper role and have someone in front of him to make forward runs. We had no forward runs again, no movement, so there is no point in him having the ball at his feet because there is no one to play in.}

08 May 2017 05:15:21
Fair comment - I presumed because he was doing it so often it may have been a strategy.

I'd agree the best position I've seen Coutinho play was the more attacking midfielder role he played in 13/ 14.he's able to transition the ball swiftly from defense into attack, can play our forwards in behind with his vision, has a dangerous shot from outside the box (forcing defenders to push out), can play one-twos to disrupt defensive patterns, and also able to arrive late from deep to score.

I hope he plays there next year, only problem is does a midfield of Hendo/ Can, Llalana and Couts lack physicality for the PL, and if so then where does Llalana play.

I don't think it would be a bad shout to play Llalana wide left and Coutinho a bit deeper against West Ham. At least Llalana can cross with his left even if he lacks a bit of pace.

08 May 2017 12:25:27
David Silva has been playing that role for years at city and is the best player. He is not a monster nor are his midfield partners.

08 May 2017 12:27:32
Zimbo

Moreover you don't need Lallana if you drop Couts into the middle. Lallana is a lesser version of Coutinho. Who still can't pick a player not has a vision to see those runs between lines. He goes to the bench with Coutinho dropping into the middle.

08 May 2017 21:21:47
This is why as Ed02 has said, Brandt is open to coming to us cos he wants to play on the left of midfield and is concerned that he won't get a game if Couts is out there. Therefore, Couts needs to be in the CM and have Brandt or another wide player with pace, come in on the left as this will make the bus parkers thing twice and give Couts something to hit when he has the ball to feet in CM.

08 May 2017 00:06:02
Hey Eds. Is there any chance of us signing .......

{Ed002's Note - Try the search engine.}

07 May 2017 23:52:59
Oh how I'm tempted to get a half Liverpool half arsenal scarf after today hahaha.