22 Jan 2015 13:59:11
People wondering why we are failing FFP and need to sell to buy, these are the top 5 clubs for revenue streams in England:
United £518m
Man City £414m
Chelsea £388m
Arsenal £359m
Liverpool £306m
Aside from United we spent more than all of them clubs. United could afford to spend we they did though and we quite simply couldn't. Figures taken from BBC. If that is our revenue when we come second, then I dread to think what it'll be this year with less TV coverage and a worse league position.
We need a manager willi g to give youngsters a chance going forward because we simply cannot sustain buying players every season and that is why some of us still want Rodgers gone. As Ed002 said earlier, we will always be in transition without a manager willing to do this.
Add to that Rodgers awful interviews, poor transfer record, stubborn tactics and refusal to accept help in it is blatantly obvious he is not the right man to take us forward.
I understand that we're on a fairly decent little run and things are a bit better now, but people are getting way too excited way too quickly and forgiving Rodgers far too easily. For me, unless he drags us back to 4th, starts utilising the academy and wins us a trophy or even two, his position is untenable.
I am a Liverpool FC fan which means I want what is best for Liverpool FC. No man is bigger than the club, and certainly not Rodgers. If this review reveals that he is part of the reason we're failing he has to go or accept help; and the review will reveal that, and he won't accept help.
Dress it up however you want, make all the excuses you want. I'm not a fickle yo-yo supporter who changes my mind every time we win or lose. Look at the bigger picture and it is plain to see; we cannot continue with the current management system.
Markovic 20, Sterling 20, Can 21, Coutinho 22, Moreno 22, Sakho 24, Henderson 24. All started and played well in our biggest game of the season. Then you've got Origi coming in, Iberia and Flanagan next season who've both been given chances under Rodgers, and Sturridge and Lallana who are 25 or under. They can be the core of our team for 5-8 years. It's tosh that Rodgers doesn't give chances to younger players, an argument made by people who build up the youth team without seeing them as the manager does then get annoyed when they don't play - where are Krizstian Nemeth, Adam Morgan, Dani Pacheco, Nathan Eccleston, insert-name-of-youngster-who-just-wasn't-good-enough-but-people-treated-like-pele now?
{Ed001's Note - sorry but that is crap, a nonsense argument put forward by people that don't understand the whole point of a youth academy to a team that is ridiculously failing the FFP rules because the manager refuses to give the academy players a chance in favour of buying young ready made players.....
Oh and that list is another nonsense argument, just like all those kids that were too small at school not making it must mean that the teachers not picking them must have been right. If they aren't given a chance, they aren't going to make it, so how does that prove they aren't good enough when they don't make it? It is nonsense put forward by those with no idea about football and developing young players.}
Brilliant post EMS. This should give the over optimistic and blind supporters an idea how much trouble the club actually will be in if we are not in the UCL next season. Or maybe they are just not bothered about LFC being an elite club which should be competing for the league title, and are happy to just get a draw at home against Chelsea. Just shows that the supporters are also responsible for the club's slow demise due to adopting a small club mentality.
All of this has been said and repeated. I feel you're looking to patent "get Rodgers out, youngsters a chance".
Fans should be discussing the present, not the future or past. The next game and our bit of belief and game is back. Focus on the present Adam
{Ed001's Note - surely fans should be discussing anything they want about the club and not be limited by what you think they should talk about? Sorry if it bores you, then scroll past, but do not try and dictate what other people want to talk about.}
That list of players is a rebuttal to the argument that we will be constantly in transition if the youth team aren't played - hard to see how you can have a problem with a manager buying "young, ready-made players" as they can provide us with quality for many years to come.
And you might be right about young players needing a chance but the burden of proof isn't on me in this disagreement. I'm saying that very few youngsters have shown that the decision not to play them was wrong by going on to have great careers. You're arguing that they should have been played but with what justification exactly? Unless you spend a lot of time training those young players, it's just guesswork. There's a litany of young players in the club's recent history who were played regularly and didn't play well enough - Spearing, Insua, N'Gog, Darby, Mellor, Plessis. I supported them all when they played, but the fact is they weren't good enough to move us forward as a team, and, in the case of a few, the manager's faith in them ultimately harmed the club. We'd all like to see quality youngsters coming through, but until the academy structure is in place to produce them, it's just wishful (and harmful) thinking to say that youth team players should be played ahead of the young players Rodgers has signed.
{Ed001's Note - surely it is obvious that the problem is that we can't afford to buy ready made players and that is the problem? A litany of young players that everyone knew were not good enough which is why the youth team was overhauled and it is now producing quality youngsters. Unless you are going to tell me that Rossiter is not good enough? You have no idea what you are talking about, it is that simple, so you are assuming others don't unless they are training these players. Well I will take the word of scouts that are constantly telling me we are run by idiots wasting great talents that should be in the team by now. We are producing quality, just because you are ignorant of their talent does not mean they don't have it.}
EMS when saying we spent more than the likes of chelsea say, is that just in the summer, cus you're forgetting Chelsea bought 5 players last winter too. whereas Liverpool didn't Taking into account, the period of this release, you should include, the Chelsea January fees for players. At whichpoint, they spent more than us. in 2014
Red Ollie, all of those players came from other academies though mate. We just signed them because they looked good. Sterling, whilst he came from our academy, was only in it from the age of 15 as we signed him from QPR for 500k.
Rodgers has given one Liverpool youth player a proper run and that is Flanagan. That needs to change or we will never, ever get back to the top because we simply cannot afford to compete in the transfer market.
{Ed001's Note - how did Flanno get on EMS? Only Ollie seems to think our youth academy is producing crap, so that must mean he was crap right? Or could it just be that the one player given a chance has proven to be an excellent player?
Kelly has managed to easily hold down a first team place in the Prem as well, wonder how he would have done given the chance with us? We will never know but I am sure the Brendan apologists will tell us he was never going to be good enough or he would have got in the team. They are probably the same ones that whine about any player signed from a lesser team as they must be crap or they wouldn't have been at a lesser team to begin with. It is a complete lack of any sense or logic that allows those kind of deluded thoughts to exist.}
22 Jan 2015 15:14:26
Success = Money. We are a selling club now, we sell our best players and bring in youngsters with (potential). Any hope of big money signings with these owners have been completely shattered ever since Andy Carrol was ridiculously signed for £35 million. 20 odd million will be the absolute maximum spent on a player now until they sell up
{Ed001's Note - every club is a selling club, even Real Madrid have to sell to buy. Another pointless attempt to whine about the owners. If you want to complain about the mistakes they made fine, but complaining that they are trying to run the club within its means is insane.}
Who put Rodgers in his position Ems? Why not vent you anger at Fsg? They have made more cock ups than everyone else put together, yet they get of scot free. Maybe their penny pinching of putting a novice in the first place is only what they deserve?
Al it needs to be repeated and re-emphasised because nobody is taking it in.
You all think FSG should just throw money at the problem and give Rodgers another chance.
Rodgers if he was doing the right things poorly would deserve time to get things right. However he is doing the wrong things completely and getting bad results as well as sending the club back into administration as the owners desperately pour money into the club to keep it afloat and in the top half of the table. A succession of poor staff have sent this club back years and we need a coach willing to work with what we have, not one who will lie to the owners about winning the league just to scab another £40m to spend on top of the inflated fee we got for Suarez.
I reckon I could build an entire 25 man squad capable of surviving in the Premier league with £60m! Rodgers and the committee screwed up. Stop making excuses for them in a desperate attempt to prove you're the number one fan. I want to see LFC succeed more than I want to see it's staff succeed. Rodgers patently isn't up to the job and I cannot wait for this review to be completed. Look at yourselves! Celebrating 1 loss in 15 games. How many draws? How many scraped wins against lesser opposition? I'm sorry mate but I want better for LFC than fighting for a top 8 finish which like it or not, is exactly the position we're in.
Flanagan was excellent Ed001 ;)
Some fans will just believe whatever Rodgers spoon feeds them though. He believes his squad lacks depth and the kids aren't good enough to provide it and they all form an orderly line behind him. It's a case of the blind leading the blind mate.
I've had my moan previously about the owners appointing the wrong people. That is naivety and inexperience.
They appointed a young coach who claimed he would work with the academy and win titles which is what we needed. The owners did the right things poorly. They are on a positive learning curve. Rodgers isn't even on a learning curve.
You are correct Bob, but Chelsea had almost 150% the revenue we had mate. I should've been clear I was only considering the summer window though. My apologies.
Edd001, Rodgers out and give youth a chance has been said and agreed by most fans for the past six months. I know how this page works and the more views and posters the better for the page. I don't try and dictate anything but we should be moving on. We can't talk about the future or the past all the time or maybe some fans can. Too many fans are living off the past or what we will do everything six months. It's an opinion. I've scrolled past many things. When things become repetitive I'm reading the same things nothing new such as markovics improvement.
{Ed001's Note - sorry but I still don't get your point. You are still telling people not to talk about something because it bores you. Again, it is not up to you what people choose to talk about. There are many things that bore me when people discuss them, but I just choose to skip past and not comment when I can. A lot of the time I can't do that as I am asked about it. That's life though, people have different interests and want to talk about different things.}
Adam
Noone or few want to give Rodgers another chance. I like many I hope would like a whole new structure in place this summer starting with the removal of Rodgers and with most of what you have mentioned youth etc. It doesn't need repeated for people to be aware. Most are aware of the clubs situation but rather be more positive in the present and discuss some positive things. Post as you please mate, just an opinion
EMS, is there a top academy in the world that doesn't sign other players? And why do you keep saying we can't afford to buy players to stay sustainable? We don't need to - we already have them. As I keep saying, there's 10 or 11 players in the first team squad who are under 25 and can play for years. That's the point of buying young players - you don't need to keep replacing them with new signings.
And ed, you're right, when it comes to academy players, I don't know what I'm talking about, I haven't seen them play nearly enough to judge. But at least I don't pretend to be an expert, and try to show everyone how I know so much more than they do by putting unfair expectations on young players. I'm excited as anyone about the reports of Rossiter, and of course I hope he has a fantastic future, but until he's in the team I'll keep faith in the players the manager picks and cheer them on rather than whining that the under-21s should be playing in their place. And because I'll focus on loving my team rather than trying to heroically topple the manager and management structure, I'd wager I'll be much happier - even if I am a blinkered apologist living in denial. Peace and love, and try to look on the bright side.
A positive learning curve? what's that? When does it kick in, when they are ready to sell up? How many years have they been here now? Maybe we should give Rodgers the same amount of time on the same positive curve. Complete nonsense.
EMS I honestly don't doubt that everyone on this page is a fan and wants the best for our club. I do believe that many of your points are correct but I don't understand others.there is no person out there who will bring instant and long lasting success which we all crave. Brendan doesn't do himself any favours at times but he does however have some pretty awesome good points. He s young and has to learn also ( he still has a long way to go) but we do have a pretty awesome squad and when he says it's light I think he is badly referring to the need to replace Gerrard when he leaves with a proven class player.
Cause Rodgers hasn't had enough time?
Almost 3 years and in terms of league tables, we are no better off than when he joined us.
Poor argument.
I've said my point, I'm not going to keep on typing up the same things on the same thread.
Fair enough if that's your choice Red Ollie, just don't try and make out you're a better fan than people who choose to be critical in between games. If I sat there for 90 minutes willing the team to lose then yeah, fair enough. But I don't. I want success as much as all you Rodgers 'apologists' as you put it. However, I don't believe Rodgers is the man to take us to that success. What should I do? Sit on my opinion because it might bother other people? Or vent my frustration in the only way I can, ie on this site?
I'm not blessed with living in an area strong with Liverpool fans. They're all Norwich, Aston Villa, West Brom, Leicester, MK Dons, Northampton, Birmingham etc. So I discuss my opinions on here where I hope to get an actual debate rather than somebody impartial just nodding their head.
Which brings me onto my main point. I post on here so people can either tell me they agree, tell me why they disagree, or tell me what they would change regarding my opinion. If you have no opinion on my actual post, move on. Do not look to attack me personally with trolling such as:
- you copy Editors
- you are a bad fan
- I've been a fan longer so you're wrong
- etc.
This is a banter site. I come here looking for banter, as do all of you I'm sure. So if you're incapable of conducting a debate and casual banter, instead of resorting to abuse, go do it on social media because I can't be asked with constantly defending myself rather than defending my opinions and viewpoints. It is tedius and not the point of this site.
I don't think anyone who supports Liverpool is a bad fan EMS, and I don't think I implied that you were. I only said it's harmful to the kids to expect too much from them, and that if you focus on the positives rather than being relentlessly critical of the regime then you'll be a happier fan (not a better one). But we're all on the same side in the end mate.
Agree with most of ems's post's(very thoughtful and provoking)regarding the youth. Texeria? Had a worldly performance this week on loan and raised his profile both to LFC and clubs around the country/Europe,
This is obviously great for the lad, but does it help or hinder LFC
EMS before I begin, I want to apologize for the post I made yesterday in terms of the Shankly references. It was not my intention call you a younger fan or whateva. I might have been a fan longer than you BUT that does not make me a better fan neither do I think you are wrong for airing your sometimes thoughtful views. I was only saying that the references to Shan.kly is not appropriate IMO, because that was in the past (a great past) but neither of us ever saw him nor Paisley coach so regardless of what we have heard or read about them, it makes no diff to what is going on now.
As for your original post, you are bang on the money w/ your analysis of BR and his tenure here. He needs to go because his mistakes are becoming too costly for the club to bear. We cannot continue to ask the owners to pay king`s ransomes to clean up his mistakes and regardless of whatver turnaround we are having (even that is debatable), his TW mistakes, refusal to use our youngsters, ego trips, arogance, disgraceful conduct in media, refusal to surround himself w/ help (a DOF, defensive coach, PR assistant, etc)and rank stubborness as well as mismanagement have become too much to overcome and like KK and Rafa b4 him, it is time to cut bait. Like Ed01, LFC is not where you cut your teeth in the game. You do that at Watford, Reading and Swansea. NOT AT LFC. Now he is telling the media a bold faced lie about the title not being a target YET he told the owners that the title WAS the aim this year just to stick them for 100m in TW funds. See the politician and coward (who is incapable of taking responsiblility for any of his failures)? BR is a very good coach BUT not a good manager which is why he needs to learn to be a good manager BUT not at LFC because we don`t have time for such things. Hence IMO, he will be shown the door because the owners have shown they will not tolerate failure especially after taking in so much debt to make us competitive, from a manager who misled them into burning 100m and finished well outside all his targets. players/managers come and go BUT our great club will always remain hence, BR should be shown the door and the owners should take all the time they need to bring in a successor who ticks all their boxes
Fair enough Ollie and Ohio.
Markovicnuts and Ohio (second part of your post) spot on imo.
{Ed001's Note - Ollie, the only person claiming to be an expert is you. Now you think you are an expert on happiness. As for only focusing on positives, I prefer balance. I am not too dense to see positives and negatives, I like to see both sides, unlike you. You can be a claphappy midtable fan all you like, but I will look for ways to improve and better the team, while you continue to make petty little childish digs at my expense, I am sure, while telling everyone how happy a fan you are because you remain positive like a Bobby Martinez clone.}
Ed, lovely as it would be to only see the positive side, focussing on the positives just means choosing to do so! For example, I never thought I'd see Gerrard leave Liverpool but I'm choosing to focus on the potential Henderson has to improve his game in his absence. I didn't think we'd be this low in the table at this stage of the season, but I'm choosing to focus on the poor form of the side's around us, Sturridge's imminent return and the possibility of a Wembley final on the horizon. Doesn't make me an expert, I've never claimed to be one mate.
And I think I've been reasonably mature in the face of some pretty unnecessary vitriol - most people would probably say the childish one is the one calling people names. 'Bobby Martinez clone' ain't one of your best, but 'claphappy midtable fan' is a good'un. I might get it on the back of a shirt. Anyway, as EMS said, try to keep it light eh, I'm sure I'll sing with you next time I get to a match!
{Ed001's Note - name? It was a comparison, Martinez only focuses on the positives, how is that a name? If you think that is name calling then you are too sensitive to discuss things with and need to man up a bit for a banter site. As for not claiming to be an expert, why even bother to bring that word into the equation then? Nobody else is claiming to be one, so why use that is a dig?}