19 Mar 2015 11:11:50
Food for thought, but my next topic of discussion is video technology. I am a big believer this has to come into the game at some point with the lambasting of poor refereeing displays and the financial implications which can affect a club due to a poor decision it simply can't continue. I also think the current slating of officials is putting people off taking up refereeing and where I'm from there is a desperate need for officials, without officials there is no game and grass roots are suffering due to this. Now, to make things easier not just for the referee but for the game, I believe football could run a similar system to tennis. Each teams has 3 opportunities to challenge a decision they may not think is fair, the decision could be anything to which it would go to the he would see the footage over again and call the decision he feels right. With only having 3 challenges each it wouldn't stop start the game constantly and you'd like to think the referee wouldn't make 6 critical incorrect decisions in a match anyway. I know you wouldn't be able to use technology in kids football or at your local team but I think if it was bought into the football league and it was in the public eye it would take the weight off referee's shoulders and may appeal to more people to take it up going forward.
{Ed002's Note - This is a good point for discussion AA and, interestingly, on the agenda for a number of clubs who are meeting today and tomorrow. I would rather doubt that they will be considering "challenges" but they are considering making a proposal to the national FAs and UEFA to move toward having another official with a video feed and who would be in radio contact with the referee. Like many such proposals agreement would need to be reached with one league to run it on a trial basis first. Typically, the Dutch KNVB have been open to supporting any initiatives.
Practically, if it were to happen soon it could only be at the highest levels and even then there are many countries where the clubs could not afford such facilities.}
19 Mar 2015 11:34:27
Considering the money that FIFA brings in and the fact that it's technically a NFP, wouldn't it come under their remit to be financially supporting such a venture were it taken forward? Otherwise what logical reason do they have for being a not for profit?
{Ed002's Note - It would be nothing to do with FIFA at all. It would be the national FAs and UEFA as I said.}
19 Mar 2015 11:59:58
The potential problem with implementing Video technology will be that there will be constant little delays during the game. Then again, where would the line be drawn when it comes to deciding which decision needs to be reviewed through video?
{Ed002's Note - If that were the case it won't happen. That is certainly not the plan and it is not the case of reviewing after the fact but someone watching in real time. I suspect it will not get discussed today but will be in the morning agenda tomorrow - and it has been discussed before and nobody wants any delays at all. I am not certain but I suspect all of the represented clubs will agree the proposals.}
19 Mar 2015 12:20:02
But the same issue remains while this "5th official"-the guy watching video in real time and feeding information to the referee. There will be more protests from players, resulting in interruptions to the game and at the same time, this "5th official" will have a little too much power. What if there was a contentious penalty decision that the on-field referee decides against it but the 5th official calls it a penalty and tells the on-field referee? It puts doubt into the mind of the on-field referee over his decision making. if too many people are involved, contentious decision, which can be interpreted subjectively is also another issue.
{Ed002's Note - That is not the intention, nobody is suggesting that this will be a continuous stream of stoppages or anything and you clearly have the wrong end of the stick. Clubs and many others involved are supportive of the proposals. You seem intent on looking for problems rather than solutions.}
19 Mar 2015 12:47:24
If it helps the game, I'm all for it man.
19 Mar 2015 13:21:47
Video review apparently works pretty well in rugby, so there is every reason to expect it can be adapted to work well in football.
After a controversial decision it often takes a while to calm and disperse the protesting players anyway, so the delay argument is not a very strong one in my view.
Surely what everyone really wants is to go away from the game knowing that the key decisions were fair and accurate, and not blatantly wrong or unfair as happens so often now?
All too often the officials are effectively deciding the outcome of huge games via penalty or offside decisions that are clearly incorrect, and the wrong decision is often obvious from a video replay that is shown to the whole stadium a few seconds later.
Every weekend we see at least one or two major decisions where everyone in the stadium can see the ref was completely wrong, via a replay that is shown five seconds after the event.
At the very least, the ref could at least be allowed to reserve his decision until the replay appears.
Not using video technology seems to be deciding that a small pause in olay is too high a price to pay for getting a fair decision.
It might also reduce diving and simulation if the players know their actions will be reviewed on video by an expert before a decision is made.
19 Mar 2015 13:50:35
Would like to point out the problem about refereeing.It's the course fees, the fact a lot of the times, they're not very accessible, the fact you then have to maintain a refereeing career on saturdays in a league not of your choosing, for a pittance being paid at low level. half the time the money I would get back, from travelling owning a car, paying insurace etc wouldn't come close to covering the expenses to be abused for close to 2 hours. This an area the FA need to sort.
19 Mar 2015 13:51:56
@Anfield Apple, Massively for this and have said it before to friends about the challenge system as well, I was thinking 2 per team per half but if you didn't use them they wouldn't carry into the 2nd half.
I also like Ed002's idea of another official watching via a video stream and letting the ref know when they need to call something back, etc. In both scenarios I think the ref should always be able to call on the video ref themselves if they aren't sure about a decision.
It works well in rugby, I know they are very different sports but I don't think people mind the stoppages when they are to help get decisions right.
@Real AG, I think players mouthing off and abusing refs should be booked a lot more often. Refs only have themselves to blame for not booking players for using swear words. I don't see how the video ref would make this worse than it already is. Swearing at the ref, roaring into their face, etc. should be a booking and then players in time would adjust and show more respect.
The challenge system would help in terms of where one team thinks they are definitely being screwed over by the ref so I do think this would also help reduce abuse aimed at the referees.
19 Mar 2015 14:21:49
I wouldn't go with the challenges it was cause to many problems.
But video refereeing should come in, there's bad decisions every single weekend which is causing clubs on loosing money and also players no fulfilling there goals.
Any penalty shoot and dodgy tackle should go to the video ref, the game stops anyway with players crowding the ref and in that time the video ref will have made his decision.
Remember when henry kept the ball in with his hand against rep Ireland? Them Irish players will probably not get as close as they did that day of being in a World Cup and they robbed by a cheat.
Couple o seasons ago when united where pushing city for the title every week Ashley young was diving for penalties, and every week he kept getting them giving united 3 points. In reality united should have been no where near city.
19 Mar 2015 13:04:18
To clarify my understanding of this (because if so I think it is a good move) it would be the implementation of just having an official with access to a live video stream who can help instruct the referee via microphone so wouldn't be able to stop the game to review but feed information back to him?
If so think it is a good idea (think challenges is a no go, see last minute subs to waste time as an example of why not). So for example player puts a challenge in the box (typical dive or peno scenario) or player scores goal than given offside and play has been stopped. The referee would be feed information about it by official watching video?
Think that would be the best way as in fairness challenges or stopping play to review would be miss used and slow the game down, but can think of countless time when a referee is making up his mind or speaking with 4th official/linesman and players surrounding him where by the time the ref finally makes his decision I've seen the reply about 6 times in slow motion showing that he got it wrong.
{Ed002's Note - That's the plan and the final say would be the referees.}
19 Mar 2015 16:36:25
Ive supported the idea for the tennis system to be implemented in football for ages.
People complain about how it will slow the flow of the game, but i just don't see how they can possibly justify that as if the rules aren't implemented properly, then what is the game?
19 Mar 2015 17:06:32
My thinking on the challenges is that they would help as at present the additional referees behind the goals in European matches seem to let almost everything go. If the video ref was to do as little as them then it would be almost pointless.
No matter what you do you will always have those who will abuse whatever is in place - some managers would definitely use it tactically as suggested.
@Lavers, google Rep of Ireland world cup. I wouldn't expect everyone to know we were in the 1990/94 world cups but Saipan 2002 with Roy Keane going home must have slipped your mind :)
Your point on Henry is correct though it was blatant but the ref didn't see it.
{Ed002's Note - Fortunately the discussions and the decision process is nothing to do with Liverpool if the club is as dumb as some of their fans on the matter. All three of the English clubs present at the discussions will support the proposals.}
19 Mar 2015 17:47:28
Sean
I mean making a World Cup again, I'm well aware of them being in them in the past lol.
19 Mar 2015 17:59:39
@Ed002 - honestly not sure what to make of your response. Are you actually having a go at me and my opinion on the matter?
{Ed002's Note - Not you Sean, the folks in general who are looking for problems and not solutions. The fans of the vast majority of clubs would I am sure welcome it.}
19 Mar 2015 21:20:29
I hope a way to make it work can be found. My main issue would be when do you stop play and check? For instance, a player goes down in the box under a challenge and the ref calls play on, the ball then ends up in the net at the other end of the field before there is any break in play. The video ref then disallows the goal as he deemed the earlier challenge a penalty. Good old fashioned riot anybody?
{Ed002's Note - I should not have mentioned this at all. Clearly the concept is way too complicated for some of the Liverpool supporters.}
20 Mar 2015 00:49:00
It wouldn't require a stoppage in play what so ever is almost every instance that could occur. Play can continue for say the 2-5 seconds a separate official watches a replay and makes a decision and the ref can pull play back, for me it's not ideal, I personally love the controversy of the game (albeit feel aggrieved when it's versus us!!). That's the way I see it anyway.
On the whole, it would work, fairly efficiently and would certainly ease pressure on officials.
As I said, I love the controversy around the game, it's something to talk about, the 'what ifs'. But there is no doubt the future is technology, so we may as well embrace it.
20 Mar 2015 04:09:45
Looking for problems are an important part of anything new to be implemented as eventually there will be problems that arise which will need to be clarified. I only asked the questions to know a little more about the issue in discussion on this thread, not to specifically look at problems.
{Ed002's Note - Many of the comments (both posted and cut) indicate that it is a lack of a clear understanding in many cases. The teams involved are supportive of the proposals and it is the first thing up for discussion today. I shall be more careful about putting things like this up on the Liverpool page in the future.}
20 Mar 2015 06:26:49
Ed002, surely there could be a cheap way around it? Surely they could use something like an iPad with an application linked directly to the TV cameras? The FA could suuply them to the Referees as well as a back up in case it breaks.
{Ed002's Note - And employ an artist to quickly draw events as they happen?}
20 Mar 2015 08:48:40
@hsf, have the referees run around with 2 iPads each? Your post should be kept at the top of the page, idea of the year hahaha!
20 Mar 2015 10:57:47
Sean Ireland - you know asking the referee to run around with 2 iPads is unreasonable. A better way would be to glue those iPads up against the buttocks of the defensive midfielders of both teams, that should solve the problem.
20 Mar 2015 11:48:31
@Real AG, that sounds better alright! Either that or the ref could have a mate watching it on telly at home and he could have a bluetooth earpiece then to hear his mate on the phone during the match letting him know his mistakes. Go to a network who give unlimited any network calls at the weekend and you have a cheaper option. May have to Viber the calls through wifi for midweek matches, so may things to consider!