28 Jul 2015 13:34:50
Someone else posted their excitement at the youth players Liverpool had brought in this summer. Predictably this was met by chants of 'shame they'll never be given a chance'. Are Liverpool and Rodgers really that bad at developing youth? Are the other top clubs doing better than us?
In three years under Rodgers' reign only Ibe and Sterling have emerged from the youth teams (Flanagan started to play regulary under Rodgers broke through under Dalglish).
In the same time period Chelsea haven't brought through a single youth player, neither have City.
Utd have Januzaj and last year gave Wilson, Blackett and Mcnair significant game time but it's quite possible that Van Gaal played these three to make a point about his lack of first team players as opposed to these guys making the grade. I'll retract this statement if they play much this season.
Arsenal are considered the old hands at youth development but since 2012 only Coquelin and Bellerin have emerged and cemented their place in the first team squad.
Finally there's Tottenham who are the current golden boys of youth development. The reality here though is only two players have stepped up from their youth team in recent years (Kane and Bentaleb)
My point is that Rodgers is no worse than his peers in developing youth for the first team. The fact is that most youth players don't meet the standard we want them to. How many players released by the big clubs reach elite level after they leave? I can think of Pogba (please list other ones if you can think of them). Stop attacking the club for attempting to identify future stars and then not giving them opportunities when they don't turn out to be good enough. It's a lottery and Liverpool play it the same way every club does.
28 Jul 2015 14:13:48
I think the simple fact is we have too many players, in their prime and also youth players.
28 Jul 2015 14:18:44
Loftus-Cheek looked good for Chelsea and Ryan Mason at Spurs.
28 Jul 2015 14:27:02
Everton seem better at it than Liverpool.
28 Jul 2015 14:42:23
I think the main problem is buying players that are no better than what we have in our youths
Wisdom - ilori £8m
Flanagan/Kelly - manquillo loan
teixera - luis Alberto 6m
ibe - markovic £20m
Sinclair- lambert £4m ings €6m
I feel these players have been overlooked or deemed not ready by BR but if given the chance could have made a better impact
28 Jul 2015 14:56:22
Wisdom off on loan again, we bought Clyne.
28 Jul 2015 15:01:03
Yeah but Ryan Mason's 24 and has been around since 2008, it just took him 5 years to get game time. Loftus-Creek may break through next year but he's only made three appearances so far.
28 Jul 2015 15:10:02
Muscat.
The point was BR said in his dossier he wanted to bring through youth rather than spend.
We also had a set of great youth players. who have all been sold,or replaced and likely will be sold for arguably weaker players.
Kelly was sold an manquillo brought in,and wisdom loaned. We also now have Clyne who I don't personally rate higher than Wisdom.
We then have the abundance of numbers 10's bought in firmino and lallana, when suso was waiting.
We paid 20 million for markovic when Ibe was waiting in the wings.
We then let suso,kelly and others go for absolute peanuts.
It's also nnoying hearing people waffle on about how BR bring through youth when clearly he hinders their entry into the first team as shown above.
Also take into account rafas rejigging of the academy. It's taken about 8 years for it to bare fruit. Cities might take just a little bit longer as they've only completed the revamp a short while ago.
Chelsea are also paying for players through sales and wise loans saving money,I think in 2012 they loaned out 43 players. They are being somewhat smart in that respect. rather than having over the maximum squad players as well as youth on the books to full account.
28 Jul 2015 15:26:37
How many have we actually brought through academy? I've and sterling were bought. The only scousers that I'd have in my squad are flanagan and rooney. Maybe the local talent just isn't there? I know players like suso should have been given a chance and although they were brought in, he is the only one currently with a chance of cutting it, the rest are too young to say (ojo rossiter Sinclair etc.)
Southampton are the only ones in the top half constantly producing
28 Jul 2015 16:08:27
Bobatron is spot on. BR is aweful at bringing players through because he would rather buy their replacements than give them chances as Boba just stated above. That is my main issue with BR. That is another broken promise. The only reasons he plays them is when he is either ordered to (Ibe) or forced to (Flanno, Wisdom, Sterling and Suso). That is it. All in all, he has a dreadful record in this area and comparing said record to other teams is a false argument and a cop out because two wrongs don`t make a right. If teams are doing the wrong thing or not doing enuff does NOT mean we should immitate them. If that was the case, Southampton would not be where they are right now in this area.
28 Jul 2015 16:10:56
As Ed has given us the actual details,we know the circumstances in which Rodgers gave chance to the youth players.When United had injuries and defenders were performing poorly Van Gaal straight away choose these players to warn the first team players that if there performance level drops he is not afraid to replace them with youth players.There is no comparision with Van Gaal.Also its not just Bellerin and Coquelin in Arsenal's team,there team has Wishere,Walcott,Chamberlain that is 5 memebers in a probable squad of 15 members.Problem is not the no. of youth coming thru the academy,it is how Rodgers is blocking their progress as Eamon mentioned.Also if other clubs don't develope their Youth then they are also doing it wrong.Since many great teams have shown the importance of bringing in a youth player to First team,so we can expect our manager to do the same.
28 Jul 2015 16:17:01
The club rather buy young player than give youth chances and this is why we got rid of Suso, Kelly, Coady etc. and bring in the likes of Markovic, Ings, Origi etc. right now we got Rossiter, Ojo, Sinclair, Yesil and lots more in the youth academy will they be given chances I think not. BR loves spend pointlessly and aimlessly.
28 Jul 2015 16:27:14
Suso is the one for me. Broke through at same time as Stirling, but Suso wanted to play for us and was not given the chance like Stirling. #Backfired
On the other hand let's face it, if we relied on youth and put them all in we would finish 10th and demanding Roger's head.
28 Jul 2015 16:28:32
Bob, the only way you have a legitimate argument is if the players we release go on to prove they were good enough for Liverpool and so far not a single one has. You say they've been replaced by worse players? That was the case with Manquillo, that's why we got rid of him but it's wishful thinking on your part to suggest that Wisdom is as good as Clyne. As for thinking that Firmino, a full Brazilian international, isn't an upgrade on a guy who's played 5 times for the Spanish u21s then you've been smoking something.
Rodgers clearly wants to develop youth but it's not a simple as putting random 18 year olds in the team and hoping they turn into world beaters. When the right players come along they get played. And before you say why is he not getting the right players it's because he's competing with every other club to do this, his crystal ball is no better than anyone else's.
28 Jul 2015 17:01:59
Oh yeah really #backfired selling him for £49m and Suso has done so well since leaving I'm sure John Henry is super angry
28 Jul 2015 18:46:30
Spot on Eamonn.
If the player you are signing (from now on) doesn't improve the starting 11. Then use the youth/ players already there.
Buying players for the bench at this point is pointless.
28 Jul 2015 19:51:39
False comparisons are abound here. Muscat, how would we have known Sterling would be worth the money if someone did not take a chance and play him? Or did you just know that by watching him in the academy games? Nonsense. This idea that since all won`t make it then might as well not play them is the dumbest excuse for not playing youth I`ve ever heard. And no one is saying we should play a team of 18 yr olds so try to stay on topic. What we are saing is that he should use our youth more because they need to be seen and their talent evaluated just like Sterling and the rest got chances. This idea that the players will get played when they are ready is baseless because he`s been here only going 4 yrs and has only played the youth he`s been forced or rdered to play. How does that make sense? A lot of big clubs use their youth so what`s BR`s excuse? Even the great RM and their billions use their academy. Jesse, Cassillas, Miguel Torres, Pedro Leon, and the great Raul all came through there. Even Mata, Soldado, and Juanfran(AM)came through there and got chances and some made it and others did not. That`s football. If Raul was not given his chance, how would RM have known he would be a legend? BR has no confidence in those boys and i would appreciate it better if he played no youth and bought none at least he`s consistent at being wrong. Here, he buys the youth to replace and block those already here and yet you come out defend such a feckless policy with baseless facts and unreasonable logic. he promised to play the youth in our academy to the owners and has broken that promise (what else is new?) and should take responsibility for that instead of people making baseless excuses for him for why our players should not get a chance.
28 Jul 2015 22:55:46
Redohio, you do realise that you can evaluate players outside of games don't you? It's not like Rodgers and his staff don't know these guys intimately. It's not like they don't spend hours on a training field. It's not like they don't keep detailed records on these guys.
You're right that you can only truly evaluate a player when he plays competitively but if players don't reach a required standard in training they're not getting anywhere near the first team.
I'll repeat what I said earlier. The only convincing argument you could have that we are wasting youth talent is if these players go off and become elite somewhere else. Not a single one has.
28 Jul 2015 23:01:02
Rodgers doesn't give a hoot about young players or the Academy. He uses them when he's forced to and cannot even be bothered to watch the under 21 home matches
29 Jul 2015 04:00:09
Muscat, I disagree. Your notion makes no sense. How about we give them a chance here to see if they can hack it instead of getting sot of them all to see who make it elsewhere. Had the team done that, would we have seen Owen, SG, Carra and so make it? Your idea has no basis in fact.oh n btw, Ed02 has said that BR doesn't even go to the youth games so you post just got debunked. Your boy is incompetent and uninterested in our youth which is why he buys players from other clubs to give them chances then we find out that they are worse than they are and the examples are numerous but I guess you'll have another baseless explanation for that as well.
{Ed001's Note - I wouldn't waste time arguing with someone who posts with that idiotic old notion of 'it is only a mistake not to give them a chance if they then go elsewhere and make it'. That is a ridiculous way to think. If they are not given a chance then they are going to struggle to make it no matter how good they are. We waste the early part of their career, when they most need competitive football, so they have very little chance of making it, no matter how good technically. It is not technical ability that is the prime decider of who makes it, very few players are emerging from academies lacking the technical ability they need. Most are far better technique-wise than the first teamers, in the main.}
29 Jul 2015 22:46:59
Thanks, Ed! Can't believe some of the tripe I read here in a bid to absorb br of blame for not playing our youth. Mind-blowing, really!