03 Aug 2015 10:17:41
Just a quick question for everyone. If ,(I know it's a big if), we do manage to have a good season, let's say finishing top 4 and a cup win, what would the general consensus be:
1. Rodgers is a good manager who has now proven that our 2nd place finish was no fluke and that it was his ability as a manager and not just because we had Suarez.
Or
2. Rodgers is still not good enough for the club and the reason we have done well is because x or y players have been brilliant or the new coaching staff have made the difference?
{Ed001's Note - what about 3. It is a combination of x and y players playing well, the new coaching staff have made a difference and Rodgers is proving that finishing 2nd was no fluke?
Though I will wait until I see how it pans out before I give an opinion on that, as it will depend on what happens.}
03 Aug 2015 11:51:29
For me it's not just about finishing in the champions league it's a culmination of many factors that wants BR gone.
If we finish 4th and win a cup,it still won't be good enough.
We've spent vast sums of money on a team that given the spending in BR's own words should be challenging for the title. (regarding his mocking of spurs)
We've sold Kelly and loaned wisdom again and paid for a player that just wasn't necessary,as we did with Markovic. Our youth just aren't even getting a chance in my eyes,we're spunking 20 million+ on players instead of them,then not playing either.
The constant pissing off of a great many players. even though I think some may be petulant (Reina)but a stream of players have spoken out against BR or retracted statements they used to make at the club.
I don't see sneeking 4th as any sort of progression. usually 4th place is still some 20 or so points off 1st place and I know cups are good,but I couldn't really care for a league cup,where most teams don't even try till their reserves get them to the quarters/semi fainals.
Finally,the brand of football. I will wait until the season begins to see how our ifirst team sets out and plays,especially with no SG or GJ. but if we play the same sorry football will did last year with the defense still frail,playing skrtel, and any form of 5 at the back with wingbacks,I'll be pissed!! I want to see good attacking football,not a way of stemming the flood of goals we concede,without being creative up top
03 Aug 2015 12:44:07
The thing is scarface it shouldn't be a big if with the money Rodgers has had available.
The season we finished second was down to certain players because tactically we still looked a shambles at times.
Last season Rodgers was shown to be clueless he wasted millions on transfers and kept playing players out of position constantly.
This summer we have bought a lot better but can Rodgers get it to work we will see.
The money he has had and the squad he has available to him should get top 4.
Bobatron spot on with most you've said except I think Rodgers played with the wingbacks to be more attacking.
03 Aug 2015 12:58:25
Ask again if it actually does happen. During the 3 seasons Brendan has proved that he does not learn quick enough, and in some cases does not learn at all. This is his last chance to prove that he is the man for us. He's proved he can get results but we are never convincing. When we were blitzing teams, we always looked awful defensively. Last year we were plain awful but some of our quality players bailed us out, we just seemed to be hoping for a rabbit out of a hat. What I wanna see this year is actual strategy in our game; organized defending and purposeful attacks. For me that is more important than our end position (well that would be so if we didn't NEED the financial benefits of CL). It would show progression and show that maybe Brendan is learning and becoming a good manager. What I see happening however is a top 4 finish and a trophy, but we still will be suspect defensively and a little bit reliant on magic moments from our quality players, this would keep Brendan his job but ultimately the future would still be up in the air. Honestly I do believe Brendan could even get us a title this way, but we would never be a true top team winning machine like Barcelona, which should be our aspiration. Everything aside I am a simple fan and I don't like to think this deeply, I love watching football and I just want to see Liverpool win trophies. Thanks
03 Aug 2015 13:22:28
So to go a step further, what if we win the league this season?
What then?
03 Aug 2015 13:33:47
Come next week I will support him 100 percent but Captain Colgate is nothing to me any more.
The only glimmer of hope I have is that many players say he is very very impressive one on one.
But that only works with his favorites.
In groups and out groups. It's a real and documented way of managing people so it's not as if he's just doing things "wrong".
But it's a style that doesn't appeal to me at all. My views is that it leads to blinkered selection. Even that would be fine if the in group were the best players. But they aren't.
Just my view. As I say, come Saturday I will be the man's second biggest fan (after that piece he went orange and got the teeth for).
03 Aug 2015 13:39:35
Fair enough lavers. My personal stance was that 3 centreback as well as wingback detracts from having an extra striker or central midfielder and is therefore defensive,But can see why other would think wingbacks pushing further up is good. For me it was defensive. Either way,it's not a formation I like.
03 Aug 2015 13:48:21
Bob,
This is the exact kind of post that infuriates me. 'If we finish 4th and win a cup,it still won't be good enough.' What is good enough? Coming third? Coming 2nd? Winning the title? To win the title we'd have to come higher than three teams that have spent far more money than we have so stop chucking how much we've spent around. I don't care what Rodgers said, did you want him to come in and say 'if we're lucky we'll get 4th'? Our manager should be ambitious. Maybe he hasn't met that ambition yet but he's come closer than any manager we've had since Dalglish. And don't respond he only managed that because we had Suarez, every great team has great players in it, no manager can do anything without them. Rodger's took a group of players who finished 7th in 12/13 and achieved 2nd in 13/14, he did this by adding Mignolet of all people!
'We've sold Kelly and loaned wisdom again and paid for a player that just wasn't necessary'. Just for a second try ignoring your bias, neither of those players are as good as Clyne and neither will be. Kelly's found his level at Crystal Palace, Wisdom got dropped by WBA last season. Clyne is an England International and we should be chuffed that we got him in.
The only thing that will make you happy is Rodgers being sacked and from this point on it doesn't actually matter how good or bad we are because you've already made up your mind, if we're bad you get to say I told you so, if we're good it's because of some reason separate to Rodgers.
I wanted Rodgers to stay and it happened and I'm happy. But if this season isn't an improvement over last then I'll change my mind and support calls to sack him. I wonder if you'll have the character to change your view on Rodgers if he shows you're wrong.
{Ed001's Note - Kelly is an England international too, who was one of Palace's best players last season, why is Clyne better? This is the kind of post that really annoys me, with the idiotic crap about Wisdom being dropped by the anti-football Pulis, who dropped him because of two reasons, neither of which would stop him playing for us. As he was dropped for being a loan player and for being too short. Just because Clyne has signed for us, does not mean he is suddenly wonderful and better than the alternatives.}
03 Aug 2015 13:57:46
He wont,what if we win the quadruple? If we're going to dream up scenarios might as well make them reasonable
03 Aug 2015 13:53:51
Ron that is a very toxic post, and there's absolutely no place for that on here, this is a banter site.
03 Aug 2015 14:16:54
Oranges and Lemons Ed1, Kelly is an 87th minute 1-cap wonder. Clyne is already well ahead of Kelly. And maybe Wisdom was treated badly by West Brom but even then his performances haven't demanded a chance in the Liverpool first team. Look at Gomez, he was brought in as a player with potential but he's forced himself into the reckoning with his exploits on the pitch, if Wisdom could say the same I'd back down but he can't.
03 Aug 2015 14:22:59
Muscatred
I don't see how bobatrons post can infuriate you.
I think what he's put is pretty spot on and Rodgers has probably had more money to spend than most other managers in the league.
Rodgers shown last season that he is out of his depth how many players out of position.
When he played sterling up front surely lambert could have had a go.
Buying markovic for 20mil and loaning ibe out pointless.
Its not a case of wanting Rodgers sacked i'm sure everyone would rather he succeeds and we win the league, but of the evidence we've seen I doubt it.
03 Aug 2015 14:25:55
Ed001 said everything I would have comeback with muscat.
I want BR gone,because of all the things I listed. Athletico in la liga have proved to me you don't need to spend ridiculous amounts to win,same with dortmund.
The players we've often bought/loaned just haven't been of improved quality from what we had. Aspas,Balotelli,Manquillo,Clyne,Markovic,Lovren. etc etc. we have wasted money in the market.
I wouldn't agree he was the most successful/come closer since Dalglish either. he hasn't won a thing in 3 years,rafa got us to 2nd too as well as winning a champs league and FA cup.
Sorry but BR has to win the league for me. or it's 4 years of no progression,pissing off other teams as ed002 alludes to,pissing off players,etc etc.
BR doesn't cut it and he won't this season either
03 Aug 2015 15:31:15
Lavers, it's the 'Rodgers is useless and nothing will convince me otherwise' attitude. You should want to be wrong about Rodgers not revel in his supposed mediocrity.
The statement 'I don't think Rodgers is good enough and wish we had a new manager this season' is fine with me. The statement 'Rodgers is S*it and even if Liverpool does well he's S*it' is not. Over the last week I think we've been getting far to much of the latter.
03 Aug 2015 16:02:19
It just seems you want people to post their hypothetical situations of what they'd deem a success for BR. If he wants to stay I'd fully expect a good league run,good football,and Europa league and FA cup. will that do you Muscat? Or is that now unreasonable?
03 Aug 2015 16:04:28
Muscatred
If Rodgers has a good season then that is fine with me, i'm one who wanted Rodgers gone.
The thing managers have to do is follow a good season up with another good season to show they are doing there job.
If Rodgers can do that then I think he has shown himself worthy of the job.
With Rodgers having such a poor season last year its easy to point to players for his previous success
03 Aug 2015 16:18:32
Waro, the Eds decide what is suitable for banter an what isn't.
It's their site, their decision and I respect that.
03 Aug 2015 16:21:23
Lavers, that is a position I can respect.
03 Aug 2015 16:38:24
Ron, I think Waro thinks you and I are the same person.
03 Aug 2015 17:56:30
Muscat the problem is that evidence over the last 3 years have shown he is not up to the job. Its all well and good sitting behind our computers, ipads and phones rubbing our lucky coins in the hope that he will suddenly transform into a world class manager. Btw i am in the camp of i will back him and hope he gets a clue about management and i am not wishing him to fail either. But i can also understand the viewpoints of the pessimists who do not have any faith in him based on evidence so far.
03 Aug 2015 18:18:55
Ron, I used you to have a pop at SpudRed, it was an attempt a sarcasm! While were on the subject, I see you responded to that post but not my original one this morning, strange that, but just as I predicted.
03 Aug 2015 19:19:45
Bobatron, atletico have the pulling power of being based in Madrid as well as a much more successful youth system.
03 Aug 2015 19:52:20
Not sure what you are on about Waro but you sound a bit paranoid to me.
Anyway, I just pass through the site at odd times during the day. I don't have long so I just catch a few threads. Sorry if I have missed something important to you.