11 Aug 2015 18:14:26
Well done harry for your ITK statement yesterday, you were actually right about this one.
Anybody sugar coating this and saying we're all using this as an excuse to have a go at rodgers, wow the hypocricy is maddening. You ask us to stand by the manager and accuse us of being disloyal, yet you seemingly don't care about the management and treatment of players.
Let me remind you the list of players (excluding the youngsters who we assume he screwed over) who have claimed to be mismanaged, mistreated and screwed over by rodgers are:
Sahin
Carra
Downing
Agger
Sterling
Lucas
Sakho
and even sinclair, a young player, has recently made such calims.
I think the evidence is there what the main cause of problems is at liverpool, but i guess some fans know better than the people who actually have to play under him.
11 Aug 2015 18:38:06
For the most part I agree but I feel Rodgers gave downing ample chances to prove himself.
Agger couldn't stay fit and even minor injuries kept him out for months.
I seem to recall Sahin refusing to play a number ten role for us.
Although sterling was mismanaged by Rodgers it would be unfair of us to lay all of that blame on him.
There are individual circumstances to each case. I don't disagree with most examples but I do think the total generalisation is a touch unfair.
11 Aug 2015 18:48:05
There are 2 sides to every story, just taking the players version at face value is naïve.
Movement is normal in football. Sometimes the clubs want the move, sometimes the players want the move. It should be done with dignity and discretion.
Sakho disrespected the fans and the club last season because he wasn't picked. He was totally unprofessional and is in no position to hand out opinions on people's actions.
Sterling is worse than Sakho, no respect for the club or the fans, just a selfish unprofessional kid.
Sahin was rubbish, not many will argue with that.
Downing also worse than Sahin. Where are they now?
Never heard Carra say Rodgers mistreated him or screwed him over, maybe you could give quotes and context?
Agger was moved on, it happens get over it.
Movement is normal. Paisley moved players on when he found better ones, it's no big deal. Sadly these social media times have turned it all into a children's playground with people playing the blame game.
{Ed001's Note - Paisley told players honestly when he was moving them on, not begged them to stay in January promising them all sorts, then dump them again in the summer. This is not normal, this is mismanagement.}
11 Aug 2015 18:52:49
Good post. People will turn a blind eye but there are far underlying problems at the club with the manager being the foremost
#negativeandpessimistic
11 Aug 2015 19:01:56
I am pretty sure you could add a couple more names by next summer. Markovic, Ilori.
Don't ask me what's their crime.
11 Aug 2015 19:19:22
I don't see why there's a problem, people seem to be desperately looking for problems.
As Ed002 would say managers (and players) are transient employees of the club. Some will feel aggrieved when they leave, so what? They're multimillionaires, I'm sure they'll get over it.
{Ed001's Note - it doesn't mean you should treat them like pricks. Give it a rest Ron, on this point only a fool can think it is a good thing to treat players like utter scum when we are already struggling to attract the ones we want. We need every selling point we can get, instead of more reasons for them to look elsewhere.}
11 Aug 2015 19:19:55
Entirely agreed with Ed001 on this. It's not just poor management in a footballing sense, it's poor management of people in general who are working for you. Players, like all employees, simply want to be told where they stand and BR is seemingly very, very bad at doing this part of the job. I don't particularly have a problem with BR thinking player X, Y, or Z needs to move on as fair enough, it's how he handles it (or doesn't) that massively needs to improve. I imagine he expects honesty and open communication from the board, perhaps he could give his players the same courtesy.
11 Aug 2015 19:35:31
Ron
I seriously think you should apply for the post of BR's press secretary.
11 Aug 2015 19:46:24
Do you know what the best part about this is?
Within 12 months (possibly after a certain transient employee leaves), we'll spend at least twice what we get for Lucas on another player to exactly the same job, and to do it no better than Lucas does.
11 Aug 2015 19:49:20
Ron, your post makes little sense. First you talk about how people need to be dealt with respect and dignity and that the likes of Sakho and Sterling deserves none from LFC, then you talk about Sahin and Downing being crap. So, just because they didn't perform, Rodgers can disrespect them and be unprofessional towards them? Like Lucas?
11 Aug 2015 19:50:48
I hope we have a good season but I am expecting Brendan to mess up sometime and then when John Henry pulls the trigger we can hopefully move on .
There are lots of positive aspects to the club with the stadium expansion a stronger squad and some good young prospects at the Academy.
The coaching staff also looks to have improved. All in all there should be a good base for when we get a first class coach/manager.
I just think that Brendan is the one big negative. At least we should not have to put up with his antics after this season.
We need to continue to invest in youth and as the Edda say we need to be so much better in managing their career paths so that they develop in a proper managed way.
How we can let Lucas go is beyond belief.
Rodgers clearly has no idea how to set up a side.
All he needs to do is view this site and follow advice from Ed001 and others and he would not make the stupid mistakes that are going to cost him his job in the end.
So bloody frustrating!
11 Aug 2015 20:14:36
Completely agree with Ed001 & RDL, it's clearly a problem that can do nothing but compound the poor reputation the club is rapidly gathering
11 Aug 2015 20:17:11
Oh and Woolback, let's not forget that our current captain would've been sold to Fulham for less than £10m had he not dug in and refused the move.
And Skrtel, like him or not, seemed to be days away from being sold after we signed three center backs in one window and made Agger into the vice-captain, but then he had to be pressed into service against Man U due to injuries and all of sudden was first choice again. And Illori, his replacement, never got a look in as a result.
Rodgers' man management is just plain terrible. I don't think it's intentional, or stems from an arrogant belief that he can do whatever with the players and get away with it. But there's an established pattern of not being able to correctly assess what he has and flip flopping over who he wants and when. He may genuinely believed he needed Lucas in January when he persuaded him to stay. But then 6 months later, he's decide he can do without - and without signing a replacement, so it's not a case that he saw Lucas play 2nd half of last season and decided he wasn't good enough.
If he doesn't sort this out, we will never be able to build a side that can consistently finish in the top 4 and challenge for the league.
11 Aug 2015 20:33:34
Rodgers is single handedly destroying the club, he's doing the incredible and making Van Gaal look like a good man manager. I hope he's gone sooner rather than later
11 Aug 2015 21:24:48
Ed1, genuine question.
Other than not playing these guys in what way has Rodgers treated them badly? In Lucas' case I understand he was promised game time which he got. The situation has now changed and he'll be allowed to leave.
That doesn't sound disrespectful to me. It sounds like giving a player what he wants and doing it twice for good measure.
Could you give me more detail on how Rodgers has treated these guys?
{Ed002's Note - It is poor behaviour by the club.}
11 Aug 2015 22:31:29
Ed2,
There must be more to the situation which isn't common knowledge. Everything I've heard about the Lucas situation points to the club respecting his wishes. He wasn't lied to last winter, he wasn't lied to this summer.
I can understand that people are upset that Rodgers doesn't rate their favorite players but that's our problem not his.
{Ed002's Note - It is not the done thing to stop a player from leaving with commitments about his future and then screw hime a few months later. The club has handled numerous players badly in recent times - including those on loan. It is unprofessional.}
11 Aug 2015 23:53:16
Think you're missing the point. Rodgers kept Lucas from leaving by promises of game time. I hardly think it was taken by Lucas to mean for the next couple of months only. It's like your employer giving you a raise to keep you from leaving when you have another opportunity then Turing around and sacking you a month later. It's just not right.
12 Aug 2015 00:11:42
Muscat, Rodgers is racking up an impressive level of player mis-use. Let's just take the really obvious on the surface stuff, that doesn't require any "ITK" knowledge, shall we?
Rodgers arrived and promptly froze out Enrique, Downing and Hendo before having to use all of them as first choice by December because his replacements weren't good enough.
The following summer, we appointed Agger vice captain, signed three other center backs, and Skrtel, who hadn't started the majority of our games for a few months previously, was practically gone. Then he had one good game and became first choice. Illori never got a look in as a result and a year later Agger left under a cloud. And then we bought another center back.
Same transfer window we loaned out Suso with no clear plan for his future development, and then signed Alberto who plays the same position. Alberto barely played and was loaned out himself a season later, but only after we had alienated and sold Suso.
We loaned in Cissokho and Moses, but ended using players we already had at the club (Flanno & Sterling) instead of them. Wouldn't imagine that did either of those players any good or made their parent clubs particularly happy. Not to mention the expense.
We trumped that last summer, by loaning out one right back and loaning in a far worse one. The fact that Wisdom signed a new contract after that is astounding. But I bet whatever promises have been made to get him to sign won't be fufilled if BR is still in charge when Wisdom returns from Norwich. Oh, and we cut short Manquillo's loan after barely using him. Another player and club no doubt ingratiated to Liverpool FC.
We loaned out Ibe, signed another player who plays his position for £20m, and then recalled him 5 months later.
We completely dropped the ball on Sterling and gave his agent a window to force a transfer.
Despite signing four center backs in two years we still managed to have to play a central midfielder and center back for most of the season, because the manager didn't rate all the CBs he'd bought.
Can it be any more obvious that BR can't make up his mind on what to do with the players he has and that has contributed to so many instances of the club mishandling players? There isn't a "situation which isn't common knowledge" on all of them, mate.
12 Aug 2015 00:18:28
RDL what was Lucas promised? Were you there? Has it been published? Has Lucas or Rodgers made a statement on the matter?
With due respect to the Eds they've given us no detail on any of this other than 'promises were made and have been broken' and I've seen nothing else reported on the matter.
I like to base my opinions on something more than rumor and outrage and given the evidence presented to me I couldn't even say for sure that Lucas was upset let alone was being treated badly.
{Ed002's Note - I explained it in January.}
12 Aug 2015 00:24:38
Some people seem to think that just because one is paid a lot of money that they have no feelings like every other god damned human being on this planet.
As for brendan and his management of this club. basically its a crying shame that a man of no morals whatsoever is in charge of this great institution and he is destroying the legacy of much better men than himself from within much like a cancer.
12 Aug 2015 00:40:43
Those trying to defend BR on this issue are just as disingenuous and morally dishonest as he is, IMO because there is no way any man with any self respect and dignity will endorse this type of treatment UNLESS he too, would have no prob treating someone else the same way. As for Ron, I think he is BR in disguise because he says the most incoherent things and makes the dumbest comments just to defend his BFF.
12 Aug 2015 01:41:14
This is nothing that doesn't happen at other top clubs something red. You keep hold of players until their value is at its highest then if they are not in your plans you sell. It probably is treating players badly but in this world of business it's a necessity. Take your example of Wisdom who in my option is a mid table premier league defender. Do we sell him now for £500,000 or do we send him out on loan, see if he is good enough for us and if not then he had premier league experience and we'll probably get 2 million for him. Makes sense to me.
12 Aug 2015 01:43:49
Regardless of the ability of the players does it not ring huge alarm bells that that many of them (many more i had forgotton about as well) cited the manager as being an imbecile and the sole reason for them leaving!
Players dissapoint like downing did all the time! And yes he did give him a chance, but downing still claimed he was managed poorly! Surely that says a lot!
And Something Red, the sktrel/agger debacle has baned our defence for what will be the third season in a row now. Yippee.
12 Aug 2015 01:57:36
That's a brilliant, albeit incredibly sad, summary of Rodgers' transfers Something Red. I don't know that I've ever seen a single manager buy or loan in so many players in such a fairly short amount of time. He's got to be near a record by now?