02 Sep 2015 12:43:11
I drafted a rant about Rodgers and Ilori but decided to tone it down a bit. The bottom line is did he have the talent to not only make it at Liverpool, but also jump from 5th choice to 1st or 2nd? None of us can know for sure, the evidence we have (loans and u21 games) is inconclusive but his performances certainly don't demand a run in the first team. Whether we trust their judgement or not Rodgers and his staff are far more informed about his ability than we or the Eds are, they see him in training every day and can directly compare him to the other CBs at the club.
Have the club treated him badly? What's clear is that Ilori wasn't going to be more than 5th choice this season, getting a few sub appearances and starts in the cups. That's not treating him badly, that's what happens if you're not first choice. If a move to villa was better for the player (more games) and the club (make some money back from him) then the right thing was to consider it.
This season I will watch Ilori with interest, I'll be fascinated to know with how he copes with the premiership and I'll retain a hope that he comes good and comes back to Liverpool. But yesterdays decision was a pragmatic one for both the player and the club and I much prefer that to the emotionally charged opinions on this site.
02 Sep 2015 13:25:01
Ridiculous post mate. There's only one way to find out if they're good enough and that's to play them! How can he be 5th choice in your words, without having a game. I guess ed001 is 6th choice seeing as he's never played for Rodgers either
02 Sep 2015 13:07:26
But he has been let down because he was promised games in the first team
02 Sep 2015 13:07:31
I really don't understand what is the issue people here are having with players going on loan. As I mentined yesterday Chelsea has 28 players on loan. If you sell a player and he become a huge player elsewhere like Chelsea and De Broyne maybe you can complain. If Illouri will prove himself on loan he will come back and if not then he is not good enough. Only 11 players can be on the pitch on a given time. Would it be better if he stay with us and never play? All the big teams have big squads as you never now who will turn to a player who is good enough to start. The others go for a loan.
02 Sep 2015 13:11:07
Lovren's performances have never warranted a run in the first team, but still we are subjected to the comedy act that is Skrtel and Lovren, proudly brought to us by Mr Rodgers.
02 Sep 2015 13:32:15
''The bottom line is did he have the talent to not only make it at Liverpool, but also jump from 5th choice to 1st or 2nd? None of us can know for sure''
''the evidence we have (loans and u21 games) is inconclusive but his performances certainly don't demand a run in the first team''
Do you see the contradiction in those 2 lines one right after the other?
02 Sep 2015 13:43:20
Benny, he's 5th choice because he goes to work day in and day out with 4 other CBs. Competitive games aren't some magical place where also-rans become world beaters.
You need to show you can do it in a game to become a great player but you can clearly show if you can't cut it in training.
02 Sep 2015 13:45:46
The other point is, if he's not good enough why did Rodgers buy him in the first pkace.
02 Sep 2015 13:49:03
Fano read ''Loan to buy'' If he performs well and Villa meet the required buying price,he goes as long as he agrees personal terms.
02 Sep 2015 13:53:35
Bob, no, not at all. When the evidence is 'inconclusive' 'none of us can know for sure'. Stop trying to pick holes that aren't there.
Heisenberg, supposedly he's been promised games but he's certainly not been promised a first choice role. If Villa are offering him more games than Liverpool can then it's a good decision for him to make.
02 Sep 2015 14:03:00
Liverpres, I'm with you on Lovren and Skrtel and I've repeatedly called to bring Sakho into the team. But doesn't it make you think that there must be something hugely wrong with Ilori if he can't even be considered in the same bracket as those clowns.
02 Sep 2015 14:24:25
Muscat. as to your last reply. What makes you so sure there isn't something wrong with Rodgers then and that's why he couldn't make it anywhere near the first team? Why just blame the player of not performing in training when it is obvious our 2 first choice CBs don't suit our tactics? Unless our new tactic is to play a deep defensive line with 2 DMs and play on the counter with coutinhos and bentekes explosive pace? Or maybe we now just try to score from the half way line so we can keep all 11 players in our half of the pitch and minimise our chance of conceding.
02 Sep 2015 14:53:48
I have no knowledge of whether Ilori is good enough to be given a starting spot or not, but if, as the Eds lead us to believe, he was promised playing time at Liverpool and then loaned out, that's very poor by the management. You either keep promises or don't make them in the first place.
02 Sep 2015 14:55:07
The contradiction is you say we can't be sure he can jump from 5th to first,but then you can say we can make a judgement his performances don't demand a run in the first team. If you can't see your contradiction,there's no hope for you there pal.
How can 1 minute we not be able to judge his ability in Liverpool pecking order, then a second later have enough evidence to know he's not good enough?
02 Sep 2015 14:56:53
muscatred: Your entire argument is based on the line that you trust Rodgers and his coaching staff over Ilori. Many pertinent examples over the past 3 years shows Rodgers has mismanaged players and haven't given some a fair go.
02 Sep 2015 15:11:37
Cyprus, you could be right, but your answer is no more or less likely than mine, we simply don't know as we've never seen him play. Thankfully, his time at Villa should give us some evidence to actually back up our opinions. If he barely plays or bombs then Rodgers was right to let him go, if his reputation ends up as better than Lovren or Skrtel then the fans were right.
What bothers me about the last 24 hours is this has very little to do with Ilori himself and is far more about people's dissatisfaction with Rodgers, Lovren and and Skrtel. Two weeks ago we were having this same argument about Sakho when it seemed like he was leaving, the following week it was Lucas. Where are all the people celebrating keeping these guys? Nowhere and that's because people care far less about these players than they let on and care far more about attacking Rodgers.
{Ed001's Note - sorry but playing for a piss poor manager in Dimmy Sherwood is not going to show anything.}
02 Sep 2015 16:07:04
jeez Bob, you're clutching at straws there. No we can't know if he's good enough to go from 5th to 1st/2nd because he's done nothing on loan or with the u21s to demonstrate he has that ability. Those same performances also do nothing to back his claim to starting place now. Mate you've got me before but you've over thought this one.
02 Sep 2015 16:44:50
Muscatred like Ron Kreague, is a BR acolyte who will rather trash the player and whoever else to protect his BFF from any liability. How do I know that? He posted the exact same rubbish regarding a subject of BR not giving youth a chance on this forum in a bid to absorb him of blame so not surprised he is trashing Ilori now. His acolytes would rather trash the players and other fans to protect him from blame than look at the facts objectively
02 Sep 2015 17:24:03
So you're essentially saying we can judge a player because he hasn't played,but we can't judge how good he is,because he hasn't played.
Mate, you need to sit back and think through what you're writing
02 Sep 2015 17:30:28
Redohio it's embarrassing how much they can't put together a single cohesive case without contradicting themselves or back pedaling.
I hope you noted Ron keagues big back pedal further down the page to me
02 Sep 2015 17:36:57
Not even close Bob, i'm saying he can't be judged by us at all. The club staff can judge him though because they work with him every day.
02 Sep 2015 17:45:15
And Redohio dives in with the BFF bomb! You simply don't get it do you ohio. I'm not trashing Ilori at all, I've never seen him play so I haven't a clue if he's good or not. I'm trashing the posters on this site who jump to conclusions that's he's the second coming on Hurst not because they have any clue how good he is but because it's a way of having a crack at Rodgers, it's immature, ignorant and embarrassing.
02 Sep 2015 17:58:34
My issue with Ilori going to villa on loan is the "option to buy" part of the deal. This is the type of loan that should have taken place when Tiago first signed for us. Sending him to a PL team to gain experience of playing in the league and tracking his development is essential.
The simple fact is that he was never given a chance to prove whether he could be first choice or 10th choice. What did Gomez do to deserve to be our current 1st choice left back? Well he played really well when given the chance. Ilori has never got that chance at all. That's no disrespect to Gomez, he has just grabbed the opportunity!
I honestly believe that with his pace he is probably the only CB we have who could actually cope with playing next to skrtel as he would have the ability to get back into position when skrtel messes up the back line!
My biggest issue is that it exemplifies the apparent lack of structure and forward planning that we have for our young players. Yes we can't put them all in the first team and gamble on them but we can put a 2-3 year plan in place and track this to make sure that they are developing at the level we would expect.
{Ed002's Note - You cannot simply "send" a player to an EPL side.}
02 Sep 2015 18:06:41
So you are saying the posters have no just cause to be disgruntled with brendan about anything. The decisions that are made are sanctioned by the fella muscat the two circumstances cannot be divorced from each other. Ilori was bought, farmed out year after year and the manager has never given the man a chance to prove his worth despite making promises to him of allowing him to do that.
Along with a few others he was one of the best players in the recent u21 tournament so we reward him with no playing time during preseason then shoved out the door. Who is the constant in all of these decisions muscat, yes brendan so why do y not expect him to be criticised. You befuddle me mate, at least ron tries to come up with half credible arguments although he fails mostly.
02 Sep 2015 18:57:23
Muscat, then say what you mean and stop trashing other posters for disagreeing with you. Example, I never said Ilori was world class nor is anyone really saying that. All we are saying is that BR man up and keep his word and give the kid a chance. Skrtel and Lovren are getting worse by the game so it can`t be any worse playing Ilori or sahko or Toure to see if we can stop the bleeding. Also, you get slated for insinuating that Ilori must not be good enuff if BR isn`t playing him. That is just nonsense to already declare him a waste just because a manager who ironically, can`t recognize a good CB when he sees one, doesn`t pick him. I would understand if Mou did this because he knows a good CB when he sees one. BR lacks that credibility which in turn, makes your argument senseless. that is the issue we are debating. if you don`t like that BR doesn`t have a clue, go have a word with him to get one instead of slating the rest of us for voicing that out.
02 Sep 2015 19:15:37
Right Boba! We have Lovren and Skrtel farting all over the field making mistakes but to them if BR picks them, then they are good enuff even tho our eyes tell us the contrary. But if BR doesn`t pick Ilori or Sahko, then they must not be good enuf whereas we have seen that Sahko is better and that Ilori based on his solid perf at the U21 touney, has shown he should be given a chance. Incohesiveness at its finest. The reason their stories are never straight is because they are contorting themselves so much trying to absorb BR of blame that they end up all tied up in knots. Pathetic!
02 Sep 2015 20:52:38
Muscat if you haven't even seen Ilori then you cannot comment. I've seen him a number of times and he's a big improvement on Skittles!
02 Sep 2015 21:03:55
Re Redohio's earlier post
I'm nearly positive that's the first time in history that the terms acolyte and BFF have ever been used in the same sentence. Rather unusual but well done!