10 Nov 2015 05:23:12
I will get to Anfield one day (as a tourist fan) and will give it my all.
Does anyone else find it funny that the fans that are leaving early could have made a little of noise, and in turn helped out OUR TEAM. Who knows? Maybe we would have played better and won, and you people wouldn't have had to have left early? Every action has a reaction.
10 Nov 2015 07:45:28
Its not the "tourist fans" that are leaving early anyway. Its the "locals" who what a nightmare it is to get away from the ground. The tourists will take in every second they can get knowing it might be a while before they come back. In my opinion it is also the locals who are at fault for not creating an atmosphere. What is there, 20 odd thousand season ticket holders, maybe more? So 1 in every other seat is a local, going to the match week in week out. Is that not enough to create an atmosphere? Even if all the "tourists" didn't sing, which i'm sure a good lot would.
10 Nov 2015 08:19:08
This is nothing new. Early mass exits happened even in Shank's day and the all conquering teams of the 70's and 80's witnessed the same things when performances weren't good enough. I'm against it, particularly when the effort is there from the players, but it happens and like Irish Rover said, it's the locals.
Still, it's not as bad as those that left the Attaturk at half time :)
10 Nov 2015 09:21:46
Before I reply, I don't like seeing people walk out early never have, but you are all just looking for something or someone to blame for the defeat and you have jumped on what klopp said about the fans leaving! The atmosphere or lack of it is down to lots of factors, the first season ticket I purchased was in the kop and I stood with 12 of my mates every home game and we would all sing laugh banter and just make lots of noise and there were gangs of mates like that and mates with there children all over the kop making noise which would have the kop bouncing which in turn would inspire the other three sides of the ground to make some noise.
Now of the mates I stood with, two are in the kop ones in the main stand ones in the lower centenary and I'm with one of my mates in the upper centenary, the rest gave up there season tickets because they were priced out of the game. You see us " LOCALS ", are not wanted at the ground because we turn up 5 minutes before kick off with a full stomach and having had a few pints not spending our disposable income in the cafes and club shop, they'll never admit it but if they could drive us out they would love it to get as Keane said " the prawn sandwich brigade in " spending there hard earned at the ground.
I've two sons and can't go the game with them because middle Englanders/out of towners are taking seats. So if it's the " LOCALS ", that you think are the problem then maybe you should all think about extenuating circumstances that might be pi##ING the locals off.
So instead of whining about everything just man up and take the loss on the chin because over the next few months there'll be more until the manager moulds the team to what he wants and he brings 1 or 2 body's in.
As a footnote, if you don't like LOCALS going to Liverpool games then why don't you try supporting your LOCAL TEAM and sing yourself horse for them instead of saying what hypothetical you would do if you were at Anfield! IF YOUR GOING TO TALK THE TALK, THEN WALK THE WALK.
{Ed002's Note - In terms of football as it was Waro you have a very good point. History is that locals would go, and take their children and stand watching the game on Saturday afternoons. Everyone would then head to the pub or club on a Saturday evening and play the game again. And this happened well in to the 1970s I am sure. I understand that now it is much more difficult and the onset of the money coming in, games being televised, internet streams being available, kids wanting to play on their Playstations etc. have had a big impact.
Like it or not, these changes have a tiered impact across the English game. In central London you have far more transient residents than elsewhere, so the demographics of the likes of the prawn sandwich laden Chelsea change regularly – people come and go, but they have the disposable income to go to games. Next year they will be working in Hong Kong and others will be taking their place. Without going too far from central London there is a lesser impact on other London clubs that draw their fans from suburbia and the home counties (Hertfordshire in the case of Arsenal and Spurs for example). The same is true for clubs from areas of London with a more stable population (Millwall and Charlton are good examples). Once you move out to the larger regional cities like Liverpool and Manchester there is, as I am sure you see everyday, new money coming in and that has a knock on effect on the local community, the cost of tickets to games etc.. Liverpool are a very big draw and whilst the club will be doing better during the times of new money it will, as you suggest, be to some extent at the expense of the locals. The draw that they are will always see the likes of Liverpool and Manchester United pull in the visitors, many of which will be ardent fans, and clubs will always put aside a proportion of tickets (or perhaps packages) to sell to those visiting fans.
If you then go out to the regions you will see a much more stable population, no or little new money coming in and clubs who are generally suffering the effects of a flat economy. But if the locals can afford it, they will have no problems getting tickets to the games.
Whilst I have a lot of sympathy for folks like you, your chums and your kids who are caught up in this, I am afraid the situation will not improve. This is the nature of the “businessâ€, and I use that word deliberately instead of “sportâ€. It would be naïve to think that the increase in capacity at Anfield will see those tickets freed up for locals as season tickets costing, say, £1k per year. Taking account of the additional administration costs, the costs of policing etc., it would be a futile investment for such a small annual return. The solution for the owners is corporate sales and tickets – assign some of the new seats to season tickets, but improve and increase the corporate match day facilities to get more income. They know already that they cannot charge the same corporate prices that the London clubs and Manchester United do, but they will seek to get the best return in their investment that they can – and like it or not, it won’t be to the benefit of the local supporters.
This is something I am very well aware of, probably a lot more than you realise, and you will see a continued change in the paradigm of the game at the highest level. I have a buddy who has rued the passing of the game in his eyes and he has often recounted stories of his grandfather taking him to games as a child in the early 1960s. He has recounted stories of his grandfather’s penchant for violence to the fans of the opposition and how he was living in a segregated society even at that time. Sad, but the way it is.
10 Nov 2015 10:23:51
Thanks for the reply ed002, you've explained it far more eloquently than I could have, just wanted to point out to some of the fans wanting to put the blame on the locals for the atmosphere that there are extenuating circumstances and not everything is black and white. Everything you have pointed out is a sad reality of today's game.
{Ed002's Note - I think too much has been made of it. Certainly it is not the fault of the locals. Maybe some of the blame can be laid at the door of the clubs that no longer have locals playing in the team - was it noisier when Carragher and Gerrard were both in the side? Maybe noise relates to success? Klopp's tiny dig is based upon his experience - German sides have very vocal fans and some of the stadia are very large (80k at Dortmund) and they do create a noisy atmosphere - which I guess was true in England in years gone by. However, the grounds are typically not intimidating to visit in either England or Germany - compared say to those in Turkey, which can be truly intimidating places to visit. I recall a discussion with an Italian player who went there for a European game back in (I think) 1999 where it was the as advertised "hell" at the start but fell silent as the home team went further behind - the eventual 5-0 winning visitors were clapped of the field at the end.
As for fans leaving early - it happens all over the world, particularly when home sides are losing badly.}
10 Nov 2015 10:32:06
I don't see the point in apportioning blame between the LOCALS and the TOURISTS. I think the club are well aware of the issues leading to the declining atmosphere at Anfield and held some sort of meeting a little while ago I think. I think one of the biggest issues is that people who know each other, and are comfortable with each other, are spread out over the stadium, as Waro highlighted with his buds. Maybe this is where the club can do something, to allocate seats to people who come together in groups etc.
What I don't agree with is this nonsense of supporting your local team if you are NOT from Liverpool. That is a myopic way of looking at things whichever way you look at it, as Liverpool are global brand and will attract supporters from all over the world. Are you saying that these people who will have to wait years before saving up money and have time to visit Anfield for a once in a life time experience should stay away? You also have to look at it from the perspectives of these "tourists" who are in a new country and will no doubt be intimidated sometimes.
I have been in this situation before, and it doesn't help when the "locals" give you dirty looks and mutter in undertones about "tourists" ruining the atmosphere at Anfield. And while that is going on, they sit through the entire game moaning at how Lucas can't pass, and that Sakho looks shaky and don't cheer either. I am not saying everyone is like this, but there are people of this nature, face it.
But if the LOCALS make some noise and get behind the team, that encourages the TOURISTS to get involved, and that too I have experience with.
10 Nov 2015 11:28:22
The problem AG with allocating seating is that you can renew your seat with a different name and payment detail. you've got fans going that simpl go because their dad and their daddys dad went, and it's a bit of family pride to say your generation have gone rather than going for the football. I've spoken to 2 who renew their fathers kop seats even though their fathers have passed away several years ago. They didn't chant in the game and sat on their mobiles. They need to sort this out drastically for me, and I agree that maybe it should be easier to sit friends together.
If you're going to throw out the support your local team, then that actually also applies to Merseysiders too why don't they go supportsouth liverpool fc, bootle fc, bootle athletic etc etc. You support LFC because you like watching a better game of football rather than 11th tier 442 rubbish.
10 Nov 2015 11:26:11
The last part of my post was a dig at the op and the first reply AG. I've no problem with out of towners going to Anfield, but when the same people tell you what they'd do if they were there it sticks in the throat a little, I'm sure they would sing if they went once or twice a season, but when you go week in week out and there's no continuity around you then it can be hard to get different people up for singing and getting behind the team when there are different people there everytime you go, they've no experience of this so how can they judge? From Hicks and Gillett to when hodgson then Rodgers were given the job ( picked up a little with KK'S initial appointment) I know for a fact people were down and dissalusioned about those appointments and were questioning were the club were going and I still get the feeling a lot still do, but it is slowly turning with the new manager, people can see a little light at the end of the tunnel, so hopefully you will see an improvement in the next few years.
10 Nov 2015 12:32:45
I live in the north end Bobatron, so why would I watch south Liverpool, and both bootle teams aren't in Liverpool so why would I support them, can see how your trying to switch what I said but do you see were that falls down? Plus I'm not accusing anyone of anything, I'm merely defending people like myself, local season ticket holders.
{Ed001's Note - the problem is obviously more than where someone comes from or how much money they have to pay for tickets. There are hundreds of factors that are all adding up to ruin the atmosphere and there is no quick fix.}
10 Nov 2015 12:58:15
Not a problem Waro. I thought I would bring up a "tourist's" perspective to the table.
If we can't allocate seats etc, does it make sense to get the regular fans involved in getting the singing going for example? There will be regulars who attend most games, all over the stadium, and can they be asked by the club to get the atmosphere going to begin with? Once a few people start singing, it becomes easier for others who are not so used to it, to join in.
{Ed002's Note - Sea shanties and the like. Perhaps a few traditional English folk songs?}
10 Nov 2015 13:00:14
This local vs people who live outside liverpool really winds me up. I'm in bournemouth but I travel to anfield regularly throughout a season and most of the time I have to use hospitality because even if you are a member the chances of actually getting a ticket are minimal. I can see arguments both sides but am sick of being persecuted by 'locals' because I have to pay for hospitality seats. It's a personal choice and I can afford too but it all comes down to wanting to watch your team play. I put money into the machine so to speak and it's not ideal and I'm not fighting either corner but just because u happen to live in Liverpool doesn't give u a divine right to go to the game! The game has changed sadly for the worse but I regard myself as a committed supporter who has no other means to get a ticket. I'm on season ticket waiting list but that will never happen! At the end of the day we all have one love. lfc.
10 Nov 2015 13:19:26
I just find it embarrassing that fans are being played off against each other.
We're all LFC fans, we all have our individual means of showing our support. What right and what motivation does anyone have to criticise another fan? Surely the point is we are better when everyone is pulling in the same direction.
Other clubs have an easy time mocking us when we behave like squabbling kids.
Klopp is absolutely bang on about this, it's the team that needs to shape up. He says the team needs to make fans believe they can score in the last 12 minutes. Well, in the cold light of day we didn't score. And it is an absolutely tiny minority of people who leave early so I don't know why we are making such a massive deal about it.
Finally, a lot of the 'holier than though' posts about how 'I would sing etc etc etc' are coming from the same people who during the match make comments on here destroying the players.
10 Nov 2015 13:41:24
the point was I'm sure there's a non league, sunday league, saturday league side closer to you, which there will be, wso why not go support them, if it's about ''local'' support.
10 Nov 2015 14:11:53
ultimately they have paid their money and can do what the hell they like. Whether you individually like it or not.
At the Bournmouth game a man with his young lad a few seats down left early because they had to travel back over to Grimsby way and he wanted to get a head start on the traffic. In his case are we going to criticise him for leaving early or applaud both of them for making the journey to be there in the first place?
I don't leave early and I never have. Perhaps that's just because I'm tight and I think I've paid enough to be here and I'm staying no matter how bad it is.
Each to their own.
The biggest issue as had already been discussed and that is pricing the core fan base out of the game.
10 Nov 2015 17:37:11
Waro please explain to me please that how is it acceptable for Liverpool FC to have players and managers from all over the globe, yet it's not acceptable for 'tourist' fans to support LFC and attend Anfield?
I cannot attend games as I live in the North east. My father and family are from Warrington yet having served in the Armed forces I moved around. Just because I live near Middlesbrough should I support them as I have moved every 3 years? On the Times I have attended anfield I have sang, I have cheered I have given support to the team and manager.
Baz.
10 Nov 2015 20:33:34
I couldn't agree more with those who say that it doesn't matter where you come from. If we pay our money to support the team that's exactly what we should be doing. But to those who are critical in saying 'if or when i'm there then I'd be singing', you clearly haven't been there when you try and either start or continue a song when those around you go quiet! There is simply no point in continuing as it has no impact and you look a twit!
Anfield has with the odd exception become quieter each year since the kop was seated. I agree with the post about the club preferring those who go to the shop, buy food, programmes etc rather than the regulars who don't. As a business, it makes sense. But as a result I think it's these more transient supporter's that have had a bigger impact on the atmosphere rather than whether they are local or not.
JK has certainly generated some discussion, prematurely in my view.
10 Nov 2015 23:19:39
I don't understand the locals / tourist argument, I live in Blackpool but don't miss a home game and try get to away games, does it make me less of a supporter because I don't live in Liverpool yet probably miss less games per season than locals?