20 Nov 2015 18:55:38
Is anyone else tired of reading media stories on Firmino that all seem to conclude or suggest Firmino has been a "flop" or "underwhelming" or one of the "worst" signings of the summer. Especially bad are the stories comparing Firmino to Depay, who has genuinely struggled despite receiving every opportunity to succeed by LvG, as both "struggling" signings. Today, I saw a ridiculous graphic comparing Sterling's output to Firmino, that did not account for minutes played.
Such total media laziness.
Let's break it all down once again.
First, we now know that Firmino was a transfer signing, and that Rodgers apparently had to be "convinced" to agree to the move; he wanted assurances, apparently, that the club acquiring Firmino would not impact his main target Benteke.
So, Rodgers had no clue about Firmino.
Second, this reality was confirmed by how Rodgers treated Firmino early of. If not bad, then it was at least crude indifference. In Firmino's first two "games", he was subbed on at 77min (Stoke) and then subbed on at 69min against Bournemouth. So, in his first two appearances, he saw a total of approx 35min. In many of these lazy media stories, these are counted as "games".
Then in his first start he played very well against Arsenal, and for this he was rewarded by Rodgers by being played out of position as wingback against West Ham on August 29th and Man U on Sept 12th.
Third, Rodgers then benches him against Bordeaux and then against Norwich goes back to subbing him late -- at 71min. Again, another one of Firmino's "games", he sees around 20min of action.
Fourth, Rodgers starts Firmino against Carlisle but is injured not far into the match. When he returns in October, Klopp is the new manager.
Now, under Klopp, in his first start against Bournemouth, he plays in his traditional no 10 role, and runs the show. 5 shots, 2 on target, multiple chances created. And he really should have an assist on Ibe's goal, as it was his flick on that sent Tex in on goal. And then key assists, and multiple shots and chances created, in his two other starts against Chelsea and Rubin.
So, to sum up, Firmino is first benched and then played out of position by indifferent Rodgers. Then Firmino is injured. He returns under Klopp, who plays him in his central attacking traditional role, and he is showing his class, potential, and contributing to the team.
IMHO, we should view Firmino through the lens of his work since returning from injury under Klopp. The rest was Rodgers goofiness.
20 Nov 2015 22:10:39
1. He came to LFC with an injury, and was being eased into the team
2.he certainly did NOT play wingback EVER for LFC 4 we played a flat 4 vs United and Westham
3.pretty sure Firmino picked up an on and off back injury for about a month.
BR wasn't a great manager, but a lot of that was drivel.
{Ed002's Note - Firmino was not injured when he arrived - if anything he was not 100% fit and that is a common problem after the summer break. He is a decent player but expectations are so high because Liverpool overpaid for him - to the tune that he was an effective financial swap wor Sterling. He'll settle when the team gets a bit of a shuffle - the club is a little lop-sided still, but I rather think he wioll be fine.}
20 Nov 2015 23:24:17
I was at the West Ham game and the poor lad didn't seem to know what he was doing defensively. I pointed out to my son that he can't of been instructed in training as to what was expected of him cause he didn't know where he was supposed to be and kept looking at other players for instruction. Despite this he still had the one moment of class that got the crown off there seat apart from Lovrens absolute howler that is.
21 Nov 2015 02:58:36
Agree people are too quick to judge, he's a talent but in a new country/setup and wasnt used in his best position at first. I think he's going to be fantastic for us later this season and he has played as well as could be expected so far.
21 Nov 2015 05:30:43
Given time and opportunity, Firmino will be fine I think. Mesut Ozil was a flop last season, but is the messiah according to the media this season. However, Ed002 makes a very good point in that expectations of Firmino are way over the top. An example, I remember EMS saying something along that lines in the summer that he expects Firmino to get between 15-20 goals for Liverpool this season.
21 Nov 2015 07:55:03
All will be forgotten when he gets the winner vs City.
21 Nov 2015 08:47:05
Injury or fitness, There was a reason he wasn't playing and it wasn't because BR was simply refusing to play him.
I agree Firmino will become could, it doesn't detract from the fact the OP spouted utter nonsense about playing him wing back and only playing him here and there in brief spells because he didn't like they boy.
21 Nov 2015 01:47:32
Bobaton:
1. Firmino wasn't injured when he arrived. The excuse given by Rodgers for not starting him, and then subbing him late, was that he wasn't "match fit" because he had played in the Copa. This seemed a thin excuse given Coutinho had also played in the Copa, but started for Liverpool regardless.
2. Did you watch the United and West Ham games? We played 4-3-3, but it was so pointless and negative, it was really 4-5-1. Go check out a heatmap for Ings and Firmino's touches as the wide players against United. They were tracking back deep constantly, and had only 4 touches in the box between them. They were effectively wingbacks.
3. Really? First time I've heard of this. No report I've seen has suggested it.
4. You keep using the word "drivel". Not sure that word means what you think it means.
21 Nov 2015 13:46:15
you can disagree with what i ut and agree with your own posts as much as you want, fine not injured but lacking fitness, the club made people aware of it, so did the eds.
If we played 4-3-3 how did we play wingbacks and how did firmino fit into that role in the forard 3? Nonesense from you. you're expected to still defend as the wide of 3 forward any way.
Regards to not being aware of Firminos back injury, you should probably google it mate, he had a back injury on and off for a month and struggled to be 1st team ready, it was widely reported.
I keep using the word drivel because you are spouting nonesense. and drivel is a synonym for that. You can ''disagree'' wih this post several times it doesn't make it any less informative for you.
21 Nov 2015 16:07:13
Bobatron:
We played a 4-3-3 in both. Against WH we switched to the 3-4-3 late in the match, after some substitutions. If you don't know what formation we played, you didn't watch the games. And so if you didn't watch the games, then I'm not sure why you're even arguing the point.
Re: Firmino injured his back falling awkwardly in the Carlisle game. He was substituted at 35min and it was later reported he cracked a bone in his back. Have you ever heard of an "on again, off again" broken back? Not even i think Rodgers would be craven enough to start Firmino if he had a broken back.
21 Nov 2015 16:54:03
Bob:
PS: my original point wasn't that Rodgers simply "didn't like" Firmino.
But that Rodgers simply didn't favor him, and preferred others over him, including Milner and Lallana.
We all know Rodgers largely favoured his signings over transfer committee acquisitions.
After watching Lovren start game after game over Sakho under Rodgers' reign of lunacy, are you seriously going to suggest otherwise? That it's "nonsense" Rodgers favored his acquisitions and didn't rate, or was ignorant about, Firmino?