26 Nov 2015 07:13:58
Just a quick question for all those people with no clue about youth development and who think it is simply a case of getting as many as possible in the door, in order to increase the chances of a top class player miraculously appearing of his own accord. If it is simply about that, why are Liverpool reducing the numbers in their youth teams for this season and going forward into the future? Surely the 'stats' you were talking about mean they need more youth players in the academy not less? Or could it be that there is more to it than just bare numbers?
26 Nov 2015 07:29:24
So abit like kids in school, Less kids in class the more the teacher can devote time to improve the student, Whih then produces better results.
{Ed001's Note - correct mate. More coaches to players equals better results at the end. That is why England suffers so badly, there is a much higher ratio of qualified football coaches per player in the top footballing nations. Those coaches do more than just instruct, they devote time and attention, which improves a youngsters mentality, as they feel more valued and so work harder.}
26 Nov 2015 10:12:29
Yeah if you want to increase how many kids you have at the academy to improve your chances of finding a gem then you need to increase the amount of coaches you have and probably invest a lot in better and expanded facility's as well.
Not to mention making sure all these extra young players have a clear path into the first team or a decent loan club to go to develop.
That the hard part I think, how do you ensure all these youngsters get game time?
It's not just a numbers game.
26 Nov 2015 10:46:51
Ed, you probably don't want to talk about this any longer but I think you've misunderstood the point I was trying to make. Clearly coaching, environment, education and discipline are all vital, I don't think you sweep up a random bunch of kids, stick them on a football pitch every other day and hope for the best.
My point was about expectations. There are 92 academies of professional clubs in England who are all looking to find that special kid who will either bring greatness to the club or help finance it for a few more years.
But this entire system produces, on average, maybe 4 or 5 top quality players a year and that's been the case for a long time. These players are more likely to be produced by certain academies than others but even if Liverpool were one of those we'd be doing well to produce one every 5 years.
We haven't produced a truly class player in 17 years and that's an aberration. I know you believe that certain players could/should have made it at the top level were miss-managed and this is the area you and I disagree on. For me the academy has had a steady output of good players but, in recent years, no great ones.
Could this situation be improved, yes and we should always strive to do so, but in the future it's not a realistic expectation to have more than 2-3 established first team players who graduated from the academy. This is where the statistics come in, a good system will ensure that potential stars aren't lost through the cracks but if you don't have the potential coming through the door to begin with you've got no chance.
{Ed001's Note - who on earth said they expected more than 2-3 established first team players to come through the academy? The idea is that each class produces players who can be sold for a profit, and one to go in the team. You are again making no point. Nobody is expecting 18 squad members to come through the academy, nobody has said they expect that, so why are you even trying to make it into an issue? Basically you are saying that you are making no point, using numbers that are meaningless to make no point, to waste everyone's time.}
26 Nov 2015 11:36:05
Half the posters on this site Ed, including you. Wisdom, Rossiter, Brannagan, Sinclair, Chirivella, Ojo, Kent, not to mention Teixeira, Ward, Ilori and Markovic (youth not Academy players) are constantly on these pages as future stars of Liverpool. I'd love it if they all turned out to be brilliant but if someone offered me 3-1 odds that less than three of these guys would still be on Liverpool's books in three years time I'd bite your hand off.
{Ed001's Note - don't talk crap. We are talking about finding out if they have the ability, rather than just leaving it as potential ability until it is too late. No one is saying we expect them all to make it. This is pathetic. You are just making up reasons to have a dig at other people over things only you believe. No wonder you were such a staunch supporter of Bodgers, you are deluded. Not one person has said they expect the team to be made up of youth academy prospects. So you are just picking a fight over nothing. This is almost as stupid as your support of Rodgers was.}
26 Nov 2015 12:27:18
Ed, you've advocated first team roles, not just potential, first team roles for Teixeira, Ward, Wisdom, and Chirivella, that's in just a 5 year age group. I imagine if I looked in the archive there'd be more. I'm pointing out that you have an unrealistic expectation of the ability of our academy graduates.
Why is this important? Because you get angry, disappointed and defensive when the one's you back get dropped, you lose any sort of impartiality on the subject, look how you've responded to this thread? You've made every excuse under the sun for Ilori, from bad loans, lies by the management or just incompetent coaches who can't be trusted to evaluate his ability. Not once have you given any credence to the idea that he's just not good enough which is by far the most likely reason he can't even make the bench of the bottom club of the premiership.
Anybody who challenges your views gets dismissed as delusional or has scorn poured on them no matter how much the evidence suggests you're wrong. You have a go because I supported Rodgers but this is the exact reason why I think you and others were wrong in your assessment of him. He got rid of players that you had an over-inflated opinion of and you hated him for it.
{Ed001's Note - what are you talking about? Liar is the word I am thinking is right for you. Not once have I said they should be definite first choice, I have said they should be given a chance, so you are lying. Straight out lies. I do not have these expectations you are making out at all. I am saying they should be given the chance to prove if they are good enough, rather than being dismissed out of hand like your beloved loser who preceded Klopp did.
The annoyance in this thread is because you are a liar and making up lies and being an absolute moron with false claims about me. You are the reason I am annoyed, not the players being left out or sidelined or playing below any expectations you are making up. Excuses? I have made no excuses for Ilori, I have pointed out that we can't judge him until he is given a chance. You are again lying because you can't accept that your beloved Bodgers was failing the club. He was given crap loans, he was told lies by Rodgers, as were many others. I don't know where you got the bull about it being incompetent coaching, that is just you making up more lies in your head.
As for hating him, I never once hated Rodgers. You are acting like a pathetic 5 year old with a grudge because your beloved Rodgers was booted for failing the club. What players did he get rid of that I had an overinflated opinion of? More lies from you. You are making stufff up and it is pathetic. If you spent so much time and effort supporting the club and its players instead of the previous manager that got sacked for failing, we would all be better off.}
26 Nov 2015 14:58:33
You said you'd be happy with Ward in goal, you've said we didn't need Clyne when we had Wisdom, you've said you'd replace Allen with Chirivella. Having checked I will concede you said you wanted Teixeira to have a run in the first team which is different to advocating him a place but it hardly smacks of lieing.
Ed001's Note - the defence is the weak point for me, I would be happy with Ward in goal
Right back is a worry for me, Wisdom I like, but I still remain unconvinced by Clyne
{Ed001's Note - Kolo is much more mobile than Allen, so that makes little sense as a reasoning to use him instead of Kolo. Branagan is not a holding midfielder, it would be Chirivella for that role from the youth teams. }.
{Ed001's Note - and what does that prove? That you need to get out more, because it shows nothing else other than that. Show me where I say they should be first choice for the future, rather than where I say I would be happy to see them given a go. Oh wait you can't show that because it never happened.
This is embarrassing, not quite as embarrassing as your pitiful attempt at statistical analysis, but close. You need to get out more, and stop crying over the sacking of your beloved Rodgers. He is gone, he failed miserably, move on and get a life please.}
26 Nov 2015 16:01:32
Yes, bringing up evidence that directly contradicts the claims you've just made about me is poor form isn't it.
As for Rodgers, you brought him into this, not me (which isn't surprising as he has nothing to do with the point I originally made) .
26 Nov 2015 16:01:32
Yes, bringing up evidence that directly contradicts the claims you've just made about me is poor form isn't it.
As for Rodgers, you brought him into this, not me (which isn't surprising as he has nothing to do with the point I originally made) .
{Ed001's Note - you have not brought up any evidence. Are you really trying to claim that is evidence? You can't be that incapable of understanding surely?
This is idiotic, you have brought up no evidence to support anything you have claimed throughout the threads. It is just made up stats, followed by made up statements, followed by a few comments that do nothing you claim they do. Just give it up. I am getting bored of this now. I would have more joy teaching a 5 year old why Einstein got his thinking on quantam entanglement wrong than teaching you statistical analysis or even how to read and understand what has been said.}