Liverpool banter 207719


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29 Dec 2016 21:42:43
I find it strange posters on here keep pointing out we have 5 attackers already plus youth so don't need anyone else. If klopp ends up signing another attacker then it's cause he needs another one and he know better than us.
all it takes is one injury and one to be off form and your bang in trouble.

Utd have depay mata ibrahimovic rooney young mkhitaryan and then rashford martial and lingaard on the bench who all have international caps and senior squad members.
Man City have sterling nolito aguero navas debruyne sane silva and iheanacho.
Chelsea have Moses oscar vanginkel batshuayi costa hazard Pedro and willian.
Arsenal ozil Ramsey giroud oxlade Sanchez wallcot welbeck and a few more.

These are our main rivals at the top of the table and their attackers comfortably outnumber ours.

Agree6 Disagree9

29 Dec 2016 21:59:50
Thank the lord someone else can see it. We are really short compared to rest of top teams excluding Spurs.

Mane goes then sturridge gets injured and coutinho return get put back again. What do we do then?

{Ed001's Note - funny how you conveniently skate over the fact that a large number of those players listed are inexperienced youngsters who are being given chances, such as Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Iheanacho and Batshuayi. They may have international caps, but so does Harry Wilson, so how does that matter?}

29 Dec 2016 22:08:09
Magic, I think you'll find Chelsea have sold Oscar and Moses plays right back. Van Ginkel is very much on the same sort of level as Ojo or Ejaria anyway. So if you want to say we only have Coutinho, Firmino, Mane, Origi and Sturridge; realistically the only players you can count at Chelsea are Hazard, Costa, Pedro, Willian and Batshuayi.

Have you considered a) that we don't have any European football and don't need a squad as large as City, United or Arsenal? And b) that having a smaller squad improves team harmony/ spirit, and makes it easier to keep everyone happy and in form?

In case you missed it, we are above all the teams who have more attackers than we do. Arsenal may have a lot but they have a lot of poor players. Walcott, Welbeck and Chambo are just sprinters, Özil is the laziest player I've ever seen, Ramsey is a cripple who rarely gets into any sort of run, and their most under rated striker (Giroud) never plays because Wenger wants Sanchez up front. Arsenal are fortunate that Bellerin and Sanchez are so good going forward that it offsets how average the rest of their options are. If either of those two is missing they look like a skeleton team. My point here is that simply having numbers is not the answer. Quality over quantity. Or perhaps you want another Pongolle/ Babel/ El Zhar/ Assaidi/ Aspas etc?

Coutinho is back soon, Sturridge and Origi look good and Firmino is still good on the pitch! So if Mane is off for 3 games, I think we can get past it. If Ojo, Ejaria, Woodburn or Wilson have to cover as subs, I'll live with that!

Where I do agree with you is that if Klopp thinks he needs some more options, then I will fully support him in that decision. Personally though, I don't think we are exactly lacking firepower. Coutinho went out and Origi scored 5 in 5. Origi hit a bad patch in the last 3 games, and Sturridge comes off the bench to be heavily involved in goals against Everton and Stoke. Firmino is just Firmino and Mane will pick up where he left off in February. Don't panic buddy!

{Ed001's Note - Ozil lazy? Nonsense, he covers more ground than almost every other player in the Prem. He is not lazy, he just is not there to track back, that is not his role in the side.}

29 Dec 2016 22:51:50
UTD, Chelsea, City and Arsenal have enormous wealth to afford a Titanic full of players. We don't have enough with us. A wide player might come but not in January I guess.

29 Dec 2016 22:35:21
Apart from our boys ed lad 😉

But to be fair martial and bats are worth 70 odd million. If we signed a good young player and played him then for me its just a young player doesn't have to actually come from our youth academy, even though its nice.

29 Dec 2016 23:00:26
I think he just frustrates me Ed because there are times in games where he could make things difficult for the opposition and he simply chooses not to. I know it is not his job per se, but when you watch a player like Lallana or Firmino week in week out who are so selfless, then see Ozil not making the same selfless defensive efforts it just pales in comparison. Lazy is probably the wrong word. He does move a lot which is why he at times links play so well. It is just his absolute refusal to put in a tackle when the chance is there which frustrates many of my Arsenal supporting pals. Perhaps a lack of aggression is a better way of describing it?

I also think his creativity is massively exaggerated. He is branded as the king of assists, yet he can't even touch Milner or Henderson in this respect over the last 12 months. He just comes across as a luxury player at times who only shows up when the game is going well. If the going gets tough he shrinks away. I will admit though that I only watch Arsenal when they play us, or when they are on in the background in a pub. So perhaps I just haven't watched him closely enough to fully appreciate him.

I still don't think Arsenal's attack is anything like as good as it is cracked up to be. I think in Sanchez they have the best forward in the league and in Bellerin they have arguably the best attacking right back in Europe. These two guys make most of the decisive runs that actually carve teams open. Without them, Arsenal are pretty average offensively. They tend to get away with it though because they have a very solid defence, excellent options in the deeper midfield positions, and still in my opinion the best keeper in the league.

{Ed001's Note - Ozil is the most creative player in the Prem, it is not his fault he was creating chances for Giroud to miss.}

29 Dec 2016 23:06:26

We signed a young keeper and is now struggling bad. Not all young ones go on to become Coutinho.

29 Dec 2016 23:10:12
I'll have to humbly disagree there Ed001! I think Ozil is very creative when his team are on top and the opposition are all over the place. However if he is faced with any sort of challenge, everything I have seen of him suggests he whys away from the test and just fails to deliver. I wouldn't have him anywhere near any Liverpool team in my lifetime. I think he is occasionally world class and consistently disappointing!

{Ed001's Note - I never said I would sign him for us, that would be pointless as he would not fit, but that does not stop him from being a top class player. He never failed to deliver when Germany won the World Cup, which is the biggest test of all. So I will have to agree to disagree. He is not a blood and thunder player, but that does not stop him being brilliant.}

29 Dec 2016 23:25:07
MK, I agree with your post overall BUT to say that Ozil is lazy is way off mark. He is to me, the one player of a certain group (he, Iniesta, Firmino, Modric, Kroos etc) that make football look easy. He is simply too talented for his own good.

As for creativity, he is world class and I know he doesn`t do a job defensively nor track back as he can be bullied off the ball at times BUT he is one of the players that I would want in my team any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

29 Dec 2016 23:26:52
For me De bruyne is the most creative with assists and goals scored.
The complete player for me.

30 Dec 2016 00:14:34
The reason why I include batshuiye and martial is cause if any club pays that sort of money for a player. he could be 12 yrs old for all I care, he's been signed for the first team and should be counted as such.
rashford and lingaard are miles ahead of the Liverpool youngsters in terms of first team and international games and are squad players. not youth players.
We had a bench of youth for 3-4 games, none got anywhere near the pitch in the premier league cause they are not ready. If rashford/ lingaard were on our bench they'd be thrown straight on.

We have 5 first teamers and a bunch of kids, we are not strong enough, had we had that extra 2 players to help cover our losses we would have more points.

This is exactly what happened on this forum when klopp was signing midfielders in the summer, everyone was moaning, but turns out klopp was right then too.
And finally just cause all those other teams have money to burn, it don't mean we can't have an equal squad size, all it means is we can't spend as much on each player. and as klopp has proven with matip klavan milner (left back) . it's not all about who spends the most. If your still in doubt, just ask Leicester.

30 Dec 2016 00:33:44
Oh and to say ozil is lazy. is just taking the mick, he is a top class player and would make any team including Barcelona and Madrid.
It's so easy to say xy and z are rubbish or just speed merchants, but whether we rate a player or not is not what we are debating here. Those players we call rubbish are first team players or at the least squad players, the managers for their respective teams deem them good enough.

30 Dec 2016 01:03:22
MK love your posts more than most on here ( great to hear your little one and Mrs are home) but early in this thread you say Arsenals defence is solid, only 2 less goals conceded than us.
There are only 3 teams with a markedly better defences than ours Chelsea, Spurs and Southampton and we're ahead of 2 of them.
It's as if everyone jumps on a bandwagon.
Chelsea two man team
LFC great going forward crap defence.
mcfc " " " " ".
Arsenal will implode in the run-in.
Spurs. " " " " " ".
Our defence is conceding about 0.25 goals per game more than the top 6 average.
Yet our attack is averaging 0.5 more goals than the top 6 average.
Happy days, i know what I'd pay to watch.

30 Dec 2016 01:08:46
Talking about players availability, I read in BBC that Firmino's hearing will be on the same day of the Chelsea game. Is there a possibility that he will miss the game?

30 Dec 2016 01:21:11
In what universe outside of China is Martial worth 70m?

30 Dec 2016 08:38:53
Marco there is no bandwagon, Chelsea have shown what can be done with both a potent attack and mean defence. If we had a better defence we would not be six points behind them now we would probably be 6 in front of them.

I am not saying we cannot go on to win the prem but 2014 was a case in point if we want to draw parallels. It will be a tough ask and there will be a few twists for us and them. But we will put pressure on them by beating city tomorrow and sunderland on Tuesday.

30 Dec 2016 08:52:00
Sigh, all you've done is mention as many players as you can to suit your agenda!

Utd - Rooney is sh@t, lingard is 23 and been in their youth setup for years and only just getting a chance now, depay is a huge flop they're trying to get rid of and rashford is a youth player no-one had heard of who was a given a chance when the chips were down (fair play he took it) . By the way how is all of that attacking depth working out for them? I think they currently sit 7 points short of us no?

City, can't argue with that except I would put ihenacho in the same boat as rashford, why can't that be ojo?

Chelsea - oscar has been sold and not used, Moses was a joke until this season and cannot be included as an attacker given he's playing RB, van ginkel is in loan somewhere and you should check how many appearances he has for Chelsea, I'm pretty sure it's meagre.

Arsenal i can't argue with except for Ramsay who is not a front 3 player or he's a tenuous one at that.

if I took your approach of kitchen sink then we have Mane, sturridge, firmino, coutinho, origi, ings, (that's 6 so far you can't argue with and don't give me they're injured a lot tripe if you've included wellbeck, ox, wallcott) . On top of those 6 we have lallana, wijnaldum (AM until he joined us and certainly can play there), Milner can definitely play winger.

You must get my point, you're actually talking nonsense and have tried everything to suit your agenda of wanting a needless signing.

30 Dec 2016 09:33:46
Haizan - he will send his expensive high flying lawyer to represent him, probably plead guilty, get a ban and a fine.
He doesn't need to miss the game.

30 Dec 2016 10:06:41
87 red. I feel your missing my point, whether we rate them or not is not important. Rooney is on 250/ 300k a month, yes I think he's crap but fact is he's a first teamer so he goes on the list.
The whole basis of this was to say 5 senior attackers is not too many.

{Ed001's Note - and you have done that by completely fudging the point. You are completely missing the fact that a large proportion of those players are ranked as senior players purely because they got a chance due to their team not having 5 senior attackers. Why not give our younger players the same chances?}

30 Dec 2016 12:14:56
Thanks Ron!

30 Dec 2016 14:40:39
A Drunk Driving hearing does not take the whole day nor the whole day plus half of the evening. The Chelsea game is at 8pm so Firmino can have his hearing and still start the game so he`ll be fine.

As for our defence, drawing parallels with 13/ 14 is doing a disservice to how improved our defence is under Klopp. In 13/ 14, we were conceding 12 shots per game. this season it`s 7/ 8 at best. That season, Migs never played in front of a defence or defensive system where for long spells in games, he had strictly NOTHING to do. This season in an away derby vs Everton, he had NO save to make. That season, we couldn`t defend a set piece to save our lives. This season, we don`t even concede them and when we do, we are defending them much better overall.

What am I saying in essence? I`m saying that goals coal conceded and lack of clean sheets (trust me, I want them too), do not tell the whole story of how our defense has improved steadily under Klopp.

The goals we concede are a collection of mistakes (including those of the GK) that lead to them so again, Klopp is right that when we concede, it`s not just the GK`s fault all the time. See Stoke`s goal for an illustration.

Comparing us defensively to Chelsea, is a fool`s errand cos they already have that culture of defensive soundness from Mou`s first days and the 3-4-3 is a more defensive formation so it is a perfect storm for them. We don`t play that way and we defend by actually attacking you relentlessly and dominating possession so the opposition lives on scraps. We`ll be fine.

30 Dec 2016 16:14:41
Sorry to drag this up again, but i completely agree with the stance that whilst Ozil isn't lazy per se he doesn't always get involved where he should. I've watched Arsenal play a considerable amount of times over the past couple of years and find him to be absolutely infuriating to watch. I also thought he was really poor during the majority of the world cup games too, and remember a few of my german colleagues calling for him to be dropped. He's a luxury player who's reputation definitely precedes them.

30 Dec 2016 16:39:38
Eds001 I totally agree let's give the youth a chance. But for some reason klopp chose not to, so if he doesn't rate them as ready. then we must buy because coutinho injury mane going away and Sturridge injury leaves us paper thin.

{Ed001's Note - or it forces him to give them more chances....}



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