01 Mar 2017 22:10:54
This post is in reply to MK Scouser's earlier post. For those who have not read MK's post, he mentions that LFC should sell Mignolet, Clyne, Coutinho, Sturridge and some other fringe players from the first team and bring in Ricardo Pereira (Porto), Robertson (Hull), Scott Dann (Crystal Palace), Hector Herrera (Porto) and Mariano (Real Madrid) . I didn't agree with his post and I thought (and still think) it is ridiculous to sell players like Coutinho and Sturridge and bring in a kid (not literally) like Mariano (who has done nothing so far in his senior career) to replace them both. I also don't agree with bringing in Scott Dann and Hector Herrera. Here are my reasons:
Scott Dann: In no way is he an improvement over either Matip or Lovren and will only be a squad player and that is not what we want at the back. We have conceded over 130 goals in 3 seasons (including this) and I cannot see how Dann will improve the squad, let alone the first team. We need a CB who will challenge both Matip and Lovren, and Dann simply is not that player. I don't give credence to things like how he is a Liverpool fan and will run through a brick wall for the team, because simply, there is no substitute for quality and Dann certainly is not one at this stage of his career.
Hector Herrera: I have seen quite a bit of Herrera for the Mexican national team (I am not Mexican but my reasons for watching the Mexican NT is a private matter) and I can guarantee you that in no way will he be an improvement on either of Lallana or Wijnaldum. He is a hard working player who will not shirk away from a challenge but that is about it; he lacks genuine quality, and while he maybe an improvement on Emre Can, I don't see him displacing either Wijanldum or Lallana. I think it imperative that LFC bring in a DM who can bully the opposition and not let them run through our midfield like they have been for quite sometime. This particularly important as Henderson is showing signs of injuries now on a regular basis, and if Klopp doesn't trust Lucas or Stewart there (he prefers Emre Can over them in DM) then it is vital we get a strong DM, and Herrera is certainly not that player (nor will he be an improvement if played in one of Lallana's or Wijnaldum's position) .
Mariano: He has played a grand total of 9 senior games in his career at the top level in Spain and you want him to be the replacement for Coutinho AND Sturridge? We have seen that Firmino works as a good option up top when we play against the bigger teams but his lack of pace means the opposition can easily nullify what he has to offer when they defend deep. Keeping in mind LFC already have 2 players (Origi and Ings) who have yet to prove themselves at LFC, bringing in another kid (I think you understand now that this term is used loosely here) who have proved nothing is nothing short of baffling. We need a proven goalscorer who can slot into the team straight away and Mariano won't be that kid.
Ricardo Pereira: I have not seen a lot of him so I will pass on this as I did in the original post.
Andrew Robertson: He will be an improvement on Milner and Moreno (but then a lot of players will be) so I think Robertson is a decent choice.
Liverpool need a new spine (feel free to let your thoughts wander here) and bringing in Dann, Herrera and Mariano is not going to give us that spine. We need players who are ready to step up a level from already a good level or players who are at a very high level. I appreciate that MK stuck to the players the ED has pointed were of interest in, but quite honestly, I cannot see how any of those 3 will improve Liverpool.
There will be players moving this summer who we can bring in but it will cost a lot but that is what the owners need to pay to get them. Handanovic, Begovic, Kolasinic, Tierney, Robertson, Kessie, Fabinho, Tielmans, Brandt, Douglas Costa, Lemar, Lacazette, Aubameyang, Mbappe are among a mixture of very talented kids or experienced players who will be ready to step up or who will help Liverpool step up. I understand this maybe easily looked upon as fantasy.
Lastly, I would like to say that I didn't mean to offend you MK, but I think your posts are way to idealistic (lots of young players to be trusted over experience, expecting average players to step up, etc) . I hope this post is what you were looking for in terms of an explanation for my previous post.
02 Mar 2017 01:34:25
Needs top ready made players. We have far too much potential in this team.
Doesnt matter jf there young but got to have atleast a full season in a top league under tbere belt and comw in ready to improve.
As good as mariano could be let him have his development somewhere else.
Dann? No need to get in top top top top quality. Or none at all. Where here now needing new signings because we haven't signed top top players in the past.
Ia any of you even conaiderimg someone for the rw. No we got the reasy made mane and since his firsr game vs tranmerw he has been a hit.
Can and origi 3 and 2 years in and still waiting for half the impact of mane.
02 Mar 2017 01:13:29
He lost. me when to sell coutinho are only magic player.
02 Mar 2017 03:33:34
excellent post AG. this is how id like to read discussions, disagreeing without the need to be abusive. hope to read more posts like this.
i feel that a mixture of youth and experience is needed, and if were talking about the spine of a team, we definitely need some top players to fill in some of the gaps, probably midfield and defense. quality is what we really need now and for CB i would really prefer someone that can come in and perform like matip, and i agree that that man isn't scott dann.
for areas that are not as important or critical right now, we should have our youth players to cover.
02 Mar 2017 06:14:41
@AG - I agree largely with your sentiments: Dann is not up to the required quality and should not be signed.
Hector Herrera seems decent without being exceptional and, as has been mentioned, we want improvements over current players not similar ability.
With Mariano I disagree though. It's not that I think he is great, i've barely seen the lad play, but I think our position rules out signing a top class forward. If Sturridge leaves I am unconvinced that either Ings (in light of his terrible injury issues) nor Origi (still young, very inconsistent) are enough to go into the next season with. The problem is top class forwards cost a lot of money and, as is well known, our defence is in dire shape. If we truly streghten our defence properly I doubt we have the fund to sign a 'marquee' forward. Mariano is young (ish), would not be overtly expensive and could flourish. There is of course no guarantee but, if Firmino is the longterm first choice, then there is space for someone like Mariano to grow and improve. He may or may not cut the mustard but I can understand how somebody like Mariano would be far more likely than, say, someone like Aubameyang (which is just fantasy stuff) . I wouldn't be against his transfer to be honest.
In terms of needing a spine I agree entirely and I think that will, hopefully, be what we look to in summer - we can but hope.
p. s. As an aside MK/ Adam is always wildly idealistic in terms of signings and potential of players - anybody who has been around on these forums for a while will know - but it's still nice to have contrasting voices and opinions on here, it's one of many reasons that this is the only football site I visit.
02 Mar 2017 08:01:30
'Keeper, centre back, left back, left winger. To me those are the top priorities. I won't say which players should be signed, but they should be those that can slot in to the 1st team, not backups.
And Stewart should be given game time. I'd rather play him when Hendo is out, rather than Can. but that's just me. That's his preferred role, instead of shoehorning Can into a position he really isn't disciplined enough to play.
Stewart may not be ready, to some, but he won't be if he doesn't play.
02 Mar 2017 08:01:38
IMO it's about time we signed more established players who can do a job straight off. We're filled with potential and young kids.
The players who have performed this season, for a fair chunk of it, Milner, Matip, Henderson, Lallana, Firmino and when called upon Lucas has more often then not done a decent job considering he plays out of his position and sporadic. All of these are senior players.
Teams like Chelsea, Utd and the top sides abroad often buy finished articles amongst the potential. It looks tried and tested to me and something we rarely do. But as Milner, Lallana (when coached properly) and Matip have shown, they come straight in improve us and over the season the most consistent.
02 Mar 2017 08:36:12
Mariano is a good talent but what does that mean to the furrier of Origi who is pretty much on the same age and same route?
02 Mar 2017 08:54:30
That is indeed the sort of reply I was after AG. Whilst I disagree on Dann, Herrera and Mariano still I can at least see why you disagree with signing them.
Just to add though I didn't say we "should" sell Coutinho. I just don't think we will be able to hold on to him. He has interest coming in from both PSG and Barcelona who can offer him regular titles and CL football.
I hope he stays, but I just don't think he will. I do think we should let Sturridge go though. He is currently the third choice striker behind Firmino and Origi, but he earns £150k per week. That is £7.5m a year in wages that we pay for little to no return. It's not even that he injury prone. I could back him to recover. It is that Klopp clearly doesn't see him as first choice yet his salary screams "star player".
Differences in opinion are part and parcel buddy. I respect what you have to say because you have backed it up with an explanation.
I have not actually said Dann is a better player than Matip. He is though a different player. Lovren, Matip, Lucas and Gomez are all ball playing centre backs. Klavan is a more out and out defender but he has probably come to the Prem too late to adapt. Dann is not as over the hill as you suggest though. He is only 30 so easily has another 6 years in him seeing as he has already adapted to this league.
Herrera I personally like. I think he is a much better player than you credit him for being but this is clearly just an area we will always disagree on.
As for Mariano, it is unfair to judge him like that. Yes he only has 9 games for the Madrid first team (5 goals though), but he totals up 84 appearances and 53 goals in senior football. I don't see why it matters which tier of the game it was in.
You have pointed out we still have Danny Ings end Origi, yet Ings has just 1 season in top flight football and Origi is only 21 and still shows massive inconsistency. Our scouts identified Mariano in the winter and tried to sign him so there is a good chance we may go back for him in the summer. I just feel you're being slightly too dismissive of him.
I would not say I am wildly optimistic either Seano. I like to present opposing arguments for or against players we sign if I feel the general consensus is either too excited or too down about a signing. Even signings I am completely against I will still try and be positive because I don't see why we should hound a player before he gets a chance. I was dead against signing Moreno and made that clear but as soon as it was looking like he would sign I tried to be constructive in my criticism and look for positives.
Surely that is part of being a supporter? I know for a fact that professional players look at social media and forums to see how they are viewed so I'm not going to go over the top with negativity about a guy yet to put the shirt on. Ed002 did actually confirm that one year a player changed his mind on a transfer after something he read on this site. That is disgusting.
02 Mar 2017 09:58:49
@MK - I enjoy your contributions even if I, personally, find them wildly optimistic. You have an opinion and express it well and try to justify it - I might disagree but it's all good, we follow the same team after all.
To be honest though if a player did read something a fan said on this site and changed his mind i'm glad we didn't sign the player. You need players with the right attitude, willing to fight, willing to prove people wrong - if a player changes his mind due to an internet comment then I don't think the mentality is right in the first place.
02 Mar 2017 12:54:15
One thing I will say here is that people are definitely looking at the club not the player in Scott Dann. He is a quality CB, with a calm disposition, a decent tackle and absolutely dominant in the air. Considering our weaknesses (defence panicing, inability to defend set plays, defenders being pushed off the ball, utter impotency from corners etc) Dann would be a very good signing. Not to mention that at least he'd give the shirt 100% effort every time he put it on unlike some we could mention.
02 Mar 2017 14:37:15
Funny really, when the real AG had a little pop at MK, he mentioned at the end, that MK tends to have a certain opinion on how to improve the team, well it sounds just how a certain Klopp thinks as well .
02 Mar 2017 14:43:17
what I think we need is to bring in a new spine into the team, from a top goalie, right thru the middle to a main striker, most of the top players who are on a roll right now, are all big lads, who can handle themselves, as well as performing at a high level, our players are way to nice, we need heart and desire as well as them fancy boots .
02 Mar 2017 14:15:46
hjkle I think your assessment of Dann is bang on the money.