Liverpool banter 211262


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29 Jun 2017 22:31:28
Right then lads, it's story time. It's Thursday night and there is a pizza in the oven, I got 10 minutes to kill approx and a recent subject has come up that does irritate me so I wish to vent and see what other fans think. These days I completely seperate myself from the financial side, money is absolutely crazy so if we overspend, I don't care, not my money. I just enjoy the football. It so happens that my first ever shiny football card was big Sami, how was I to know that he played for the best club in the world. Liverpool chose me and I love to watch them.

Now the recent discussion of Suso has brought back all the annyoing things that I used to let get to me in this one particular area of Liverpool FC. That is youth recruitment. Jordi Brauer, Damien Plessis, Nabil El Zhar, Pacheco, Nemeth, Kristoffer Peterson, Adorjan, Gerardo Alfredo Bruna Blanco; the "Messi of Madrid" just of the top of my head. Now, I have no doubt that whoever made the decisions on bringing these players in thought that the were genuinely special talents with a significant chance of serving the club with distinction. For one reason or another, these players did not make it at Liverpool. Now take the case of Suso. 16 years old the boy comes to Liverpool to play football, immediately in his young age it is clear to see his talent, more ability than any of his peers in the u18s. He worked his way up and we were patient, he got his chance and he looked calm, fearless, he didn't get his head down if something didn't come of. He was a very decent squad option and went on to have a succesful loan at Almeria. Now maybe he decided he wanted to leave because he didn't want to keep waiting on the first team chances and could have been more patient, I am not privy to that situation. The point here is this; even Suso didn't make it for us. We had never bought in a player for the youth team who looked the part as much as Suso did, and he didn't make it. I haven't forgotten Sterling, even though he too was brilliant for the u18s even at 15, pace is such a huge factor for him, and let's be honest he was important to our squad but he really only had about 20 odd good games for us. That's by the by, we go to the trouble to bring in all these foreign kids at a very young age and for what? Nothing. Not even profit. All this investment into signing 16 year olds for the future, and none of them are now in our squad. What is the definition of madness? WHAT IS THE POINT IN US SIGNING THESE KIDS, IT NEVER WORKS FOR US. The ONLY reason we should sign a player is if they immediately improve the team. Even Solanke, I like him, he looks good and hopefully he doesn't follow the same path as previously mentioned. Another one Chirivela, when I first saw him once again, he is out of place in youth football. Well he won't get a chance for us now, he is too far down the order. Another exceptionally talented lad joins and will go down as a failure.

Well that is what bothers me guys, why do we bother at all going to the trouble of bringing these players in. For me it is absolutely futile and a foolish waste of money. I cannot stress it enough it LITERALLY NEVER works for us. It's Lunacy. Does this bother anyone nearly as much as it does myself?

Agree6 Disagree1

29 Jun 2017 23:47:06
To make a slight alteration to your statement it literally 'hasn't' happened.

Every club looks to hoover up young talent in the hope that they get the one that turns out to be world class and it is basically hope, it's almost impossible to know how good a teenager will end up being.

This means there are hundreds of kids who are regarded as the next big thing but only a small handful are actually that good and it's luck of the draw that your team nabs one.

Liverpool will keep searching for the next Messi because it doesn't cost very much and if we do ever find him he'll pay for the academy and scouts many times over.

29 Jun 2017 23:31:24
It goes back to the way the club as a whole is mismanaged.
The best young players have to have a route to playing for the first team. I tell you this, Gerrard, Fowler, McManaman and Owen all had a route to the first team planned out for them. If they had been youth players now for us, they may not have made it.
The managers and owners would rather see us blow tens of millions on a 26yr old and get 3 good years out of him than wait for a Gerrard to come through and give us 15yrs of world class. They're idiots.

29 Jun 2017 23:36:42
Every transfer has an element of risk involved. be it first team or youth level. You can't just not bother signing players in case they don't work. majority of young players we have sold or released or whatever have unfortunately not come to anything. There is the odd few that have ie san Jose but some players aren't cut out for English football and thrive in a different environment. Just how it is. no it doesn't bother me. i think as a club it would be nice to be a bit more patient with players but that applies to majority of top clubs. like them all we are impatient in waiting for the next Gerrard or whatever. they don't come along very often and if they don't make the grade by a certain age they are out the door.

30 Jun 2017 00:43:39
If they where youth players now Ron id loan out Owen.

30 Jun 2017 00:57:51
I have a younger brother, who was once played football during his youth. He had a trial, and after that was chosen to join an academy or a football school or something like that.

The coach once came to my father and told him that my brother was an exceptional talent. The coach even went as far as saying that he haven't seen such a talent for a very long time, and that the skills my brother possessed were so good that he even regarded my brother as far superior talented than most of the current pro footballers in the country.

However, he also said that my brother was very hard to coach. He turned up for training early, yes, and didn't miss any of the training. Only that he was very stubborn to follow instructions, and tend to play on his own rather than following the instructions and strategy the coach had in mind during games and such. The coach is a popular figure in my country still when it comes to football.

So, my brother failed. He wasn't selected or signed for the next stage or level of the academy/ school. He returned to his normal school, continued playing football with friends during weekends, and that was it. Now, 15 years have passed, he is not playing at all not even futsal.

I am not sure if this case is relevant to the discussion. I felt that, as much as we might see such talent or potential in a player, in kids, there are loads more to be considered than just that. Disciplinary issues, I think one of the Eds did share previously on some of LFC youngsters such as Robinson, but maybe there were some others as well, like the case of my brother.

{Ed001's Note - I think your coach should be nowhere near kids football, if that is how he thinks. Terrible work on his part and he is the one that failed your brother.}

30 Jun 2017 01:10:20
Brilliant post great read. It seems instant success and the inpatients of fans is partly to blame. We only have to look at karius situation to know that youngsters will not be given the right time to develop In the first team. Although klopp has played a few youngsters in his rein none have really played themselves into the team or been given enough time with the first team.

Liverpool is so badly mismanaged from the grass roots to the top . We have spent astronomical amounts of money on players and at times bang average players have stalled the growth of our youngsters. Our fans are to blame partly as we are quick to turn on them or at least let them know they are playing bad. To manage their development properly we will need to maybe change a lot an identify similar loan clubs to ensure our players get experience away from the trolls . Suso was a silky player who had something special but he needed game time even 20 mins a game would have helped him. brannagan is another who has disappeared from the opportunity to make it as a decent player.

I see us doing more damage to the youth with even more signings and awful loans . I love lfc and klopp but this summer has highlighted some pathetic practices with regards to our youth ban and vvd . Our instant success formulae is a joke we have failed to win the epl and we have one of the highest wage bills and spent loads.

{Ed001's Note - you only have to look at how people want rid of Origi to see how impatient so many fans are.}

30 Jun 2017 02:37:03
Its not just about the talent they possess its more to do with their mentality. I could name many young players who had all the talent in the world but not the mental focus to fulfil their talent.

30 Jun 2017 02:57:09
It's not only liverpool who are struggling to bring youth. In fact all top clubs are struggling coz football has massively changed since the days of Owen fowler etc.

Footy atm is a big big business with so much stake on line, even Barcelona who had 1 of the best academy in world football are looking to buy world class players every windows.

Coz the likes of United Chelsea Barcelona bayern Madrid etc are not going throw their status brand fame achievements etc which has taken them years to build, in order to wait for youngsters. Once your at the top you need continuity to stay there. Once you fall from elite bracket it's very very difficult to climb back.

30 Jun 2017 07:49:00
I'm sorry about what happened to your brother and indeed, his coach failed him as he could have still made the effort to actually help your brother improve.

There is no patience in football anymore and many of our fans want to have their cake and eat it too. They say we should give youngsters a chance. Yet when that happens and the youngster is not Messi right out of the gate, they say he should be gone and back to the reserves. Just see what happened to Karius after he made two mistakes or how a good no. of our fans want Origi sold in spite of his immense talent, just cos he's not Harry Kane. Our club may be mismanaged BUT our fans are the problem as well.

Kopite, you are correct but I disagree that big clubs don't give youth a chance. Bayern and Real regardless of their might, have two of the best academies in Europe. Players like Can, Kimmich, Alaba are from the Bayern academy while players like Mariano Diaz (who we wanted to sign in Jan) and Dani Carjaval are from the Real academy. There's a lot more players where that came from. Do not be fooled by this idea that they don't give youth a chance. They do BUT it is I agree, few and far between.

30 Jun 2017 08:05:51
There are plenty of clubs that produce top level talent consistently, the Ajax system has been pretty good at this for decades, usually these types of clubs have the right kind of staff at all levels through the club with a clear philosophy with regards to development, Liverpool have definitely failed in this department in the last few years.

30 Jun 2017 08:32:44
I think Gerard et al would be fine if they came through the ranks now, they were so good that a place was found for them. That's why Carragher played all across the back line and why Gerrard started out at right back, they had to be included. it's not about recent youth players being mismanaged, they're just not as good as the ones that did make it.

{Ed001's Note - that is not true, Carra played at full back positions because we were, as we are now, short of decent full backs at the time. Gerrard might well make it, but I doubt it if we had the quality in the team at the time. They got in the team because our team was weak, rather than because they were outstanding. Similar to how Woodburn got his shot because we lacked quality in his position to choose from. They stayed in because of their quality, rather than got in because of it.}

30 Jun 2017 09:56:27
Ed, I see it as two sides of the same coin, we had weak players in those positions by the young guys still needed to be ready and good enough to do the job. I'm not sure that can be said about the recent crop.

{Ed001's Note - I think you are misremembering, as Carragher, in particular, was the subject of a fair amount of criticism (bordering on abuse) in his early years. It was only when he became a regular at centre back that he was seen as good enough. Until then he merely filled in when we were short and kept his place more for his attitude than his ability.}

30 Jun 2017 13:16:19
I think Marcus Rashford is a good modern day example. He got his chance due to injuries and Wilson being on loan and he took it. I highly doubt we would know who Rashford is unless that happened. He showed his class whilst on the pitch and they kept with him. Only seems to be a few managers like Poch who are willing to take risks for rewards over youth players, regardless of injuries/ squad depth etc. Real shame.

{Ed001's Note - it must be remembered that Rashford would not have got his shot but for Ashley Fletcher being unable to play too. So it took an injury crisis and another youth player to miss out for him to get a chance.}



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