Liverpool banter 214119


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17 Aug 2017 19:46:26
Question of opinion from Eds and posters if I may. 'IF' Coutinho is sold, my preference would be to buy a top class striker to take his place in the squad. I like Firmino, he works really hard and is very skillful, but is not clinical. He creates a lot of the chances we have, but i think his work would be better behind a front line, instead of being its focal point. With Mane and Salah up top im assuming most defences are going to drop deep and i would prefer Firmino a bit deeper creating space with a more clinical CF in the box.

Agree15 Disagree1

17 Aug 2017 20:16:30
Ahhh hellooo

We already have 4 really good strikers


Out of those 4 I would drop fermion behind
Mane Solanke Salah.

17 Aug 2017 20:22:04
Good strikers yes world class no.

17 Aug 2017 20:23:17
Sturridge is far too injury prone to rely on
Origi is far too hit and miss
Ings has not proven himself to be a really good striker since he came here and is probably never going to be to the standard we would like
Solanke is far too early to see he's really good.

17 Aug 2017 20:35:11
Can't rely on studge! Origi doesn't do it! Solanke will "in time" be quality. Ings needs lots of game time to get fit.
So we are left with f#%k all!
I agree we need a cf!

17 Aug 2017 20:36:01
Two out of the four strikers you've listed have been unavailable for (I would guess) 80-85% of our games over the last 2 seasons, one of them is a 20yr old who has played only a handful of 1st team games in his career to date, and the other isn't nearly consistant enough to be relied on. In my opinion a CF is required. If we don't buy any new players because we already have players, we will only go backwards because the teams around us are improving.

{Ed001's Note - why does everyone want Firmino dumped? He has been our best player in the last 2 matches playing there, but all the mouthy whiners want a shiny new striker to put in their Panini album. This is idiotic. One thing we don't need is a striker right now. The defence is the issue.}

17 Aug 2017 20:50:03
Agree with Savvyxone here.

I'd be happy with Sturridge, Origi or Solanke going up top if Firmino was brought deeper. No need for new striker. I would also look to use Grujic/ Woodburn/ Kent in the role in the mean time.

Just that very flat midfield of can henderson and Wij needs to be fixed along with the def.

For me if VVD is done I would go Howedes and Keita or Meyer.

17 Aug 2017 20:50:43
We don't want firmino dumped ed01. But it would be nice to have firmino and another world class CF! We can't rely on the others ings and sturridge are made off glass as much as I'd love them to be 100% firing it won't ever happen!

{Ed001's Note - you aren't relying on the others, they are back ups.}

17 Aug 2017 20:52:55
I think Firmino is a good option upfront. he does a lot of graft and fits our style really well. I agree with Ed1 we need defenders although I disagree he's been out mom the last 2 games.

{Ed001's Note - who has been better in a Liverpool shirt than Firmino? The moment he went off against Watford the game changed again. The moment he went off in midweek it was the same. He makes us tick right now.}

17 Aug 2017 20:58:40
Hi Ed, I like firminio but to say he has been our best player in the last 2 games is a strange one for me. The amount of times he lost the ball because he keeps hold too long was very apparent, and it put us on the back foot because it was usually when he dropped deep. I watched the Watford game twice (I know gluten for punishment) and didn't change my opinion,

if you thought him better than mane and Taa in those 2 games I must be watching it differently, that's maybe why football is about opinions!

{Ed001's Note - Firmino creates the space for Mane and Salah, he leads the press, he is the fulcrum.}

17 Aug 2017 20:59:24
Ed in all fairness the striker isn't the question, if coutinho stays.

But put to you this way if we had to replace him. and we signed vvd.

Would you rather sign another number 10 and leave firmino up top or buy a striker and have firmino take over the ten slot.

Listen I'm super critical of firmino. why? Goals. He is the best at everything he does in the prem for me. Link up play, dribbling, pressing. the lot. But without 20 goals, in my eyes he's a failure and should be dropped. Take away the pressure of needing to score 20 goals because some other sap is doing that for you, then he goes from an ok striker to arguably top 3 cams in the prem. and not a lot world wide better than what he is.

And no your answer can't be we should be getting goals from everyone. Because any one who has ever won the prem, has had the midfield goals and the striker goals.

You can't justify 11 goals from firmino and demand more than 15 each from our mid.

Last year cou got 15, mane 14 and lallana 10. I'm sorry but that's brilliant from your midfield. It was firmino who let them down. If spurs had mane, lallana and cou doing that behind kane. they'd of won the title.

{Ed001's Note - if you think the only measure of quality is the number of goals scored then this is pointless. If you think he is a failure then I will just be glad you are not involved in the club in any capacity and your comparison with Spurs is utter nonsense. I hate this new found idiotic obsession with stats that people clearly do not understand. Numbers alone are meaningless. I really do not want to discuss this further, this is the kind of discussion that just has no interest for me. Numbers used so badly are just wrong.}

17 Aug 2017 21:03:08
Ed1 thank u I really think firmino is a brilliant player and we do need to sort out the defence but with no vvd and no news on any other targets I do t no what will happen but hopefully klopp is not stupid enough to tho k our defence is good enough who are we looking at as alternatives to vvd.

17 Aug 2017 21:08:14
The idea behind playing Firmino as a CF is that he drops deep into spaces to create space for Mane and Salah to exploit with runs in behind, without him doing this Mane wouldn't have scored as many last year. A conventional out and out striker would not suit our style of play. I can see Solanke coming off the bench to give us that option if it's needed, my prediction is that he'll reach double figures this year along with Mane, Firminio, Salah and Couts (if we keep him obv) . Add in the goals we get from midfield and I'm really not concerned with that side of things!

17 Aug 2017 21:13:06
I love firminos work rate but he's not as clinical as sturridge
I hope I'm proved wrong that's all I'm sayin pal.

{Ed001's Note - he is not playing Sturridge's role either, so it is not relevant.}

17 Aug 2017 21:28:48
That's true! Just sort the defence and I'll be happy!

17 Aug 2017 21:30:33
Agree with Ed's. Firm is essential to the way Klopp wants to play; leads the press, can tackle; good movement and touch; plus, as Ed said, brings the other 2 in to it and creates space for them. He's an intelligent player and it takes an intelligent fan to see it.

17 Aug 2017 21:39:01
If firmino bags himself 15+ goals (I think he will) and get 5+ assists nobody will moan about him not being clinical enough, 15 goals and 5 assists is something he is capable of, just because he isn't and out and out striker people seem to think he's a bad player because he won't score 20 goals as season it's the other little things he does which creates a much larger impact. I believe Salah and Mane can also bag themselves 15+ goals each so a minimum of 45 goals from our front 3 really wouldn't be bad at all. 14 more to go for them all. YNWA.

17 Aug 2017 21:39:49
Please we have enough up top we need to sort the defence out !

17 Aug 2017 21:55:02
Fimino is world class end of great play heart and soul he puts it week in week out just watch him play you'll all realise how good he is dragging players left right and centre first touch one the best cheers.

17 Aug 2017 22:06:32
May have been said but trawling through all the dross gives me a headache (poor eds) . Firmino is not a standard centre forward, but nor do we need one for the most part. He scores and creates enough goals, especially with Mane and Salah up top. He is the first line of defence, and the reason we get so many chances through opposition mistakes. If you want a world class centre forward, can you name who?
Klopp likes us to play a certain way and Firmino is fundamental to it. If we buy a 50, 60, 70 million plus striker, the whole team dynamic and tactics change. Firmino and our attack is not a problem.

17 Aug 2017 21:57:56
I'm not saying this because Firmino is one of my favourite players, but if there are 30 goals to be scored, I would rather have 3 chipping in with 10 each than one player scoring 30.

It means there is food team, shared workload, the goals are spread and we're not relying on one player to score.

It is the defence and the system helping defensively that needs sorting.

Up-front and the attacking midfielder is perfectly fine thanks.

Let's have a commanding keeper that instills confidence in the defence.

A CB that Marshall's the back 4, without making everyone feel like we're going to concede off of every cross or set-piece. A nice world class DM sitting in front of the defence would be awesome.

So that's Mignolet dropped, Lovren dropped, VVD and Keita signed and a starting role for Ward to see what he can do ;-)

17 Aug 2017 22:01:09
I'd like one of those 4 to be picking up regular goals to support whatever Firminho gets. I think if Mane stays fit he is good for 15 or so in a season and Salah looks like he could get double figs. 40 from those 3 with the 4 main strikers getting 10-15 between them should be fine if the rest can chip in with goals. The challenge on that front is when Firminho has a bad day, which he has where he has missed a bucket full, someone else has to step up. Otherwise those key wins against weaker sides won't come. Plus need to cut out the dozen or so careless goals where players just switch off.

17 Aug 2017 22:04:19
Ed. Firmino is no number 9 not a chance he is a very very good player but definitely not a CF.

{Ed002's Note - You need to take that up with Klopp. It is his decision - but remember, he is a world class manager.}

17 Aug 2017 22:07:23
Firmino world class ed. But as a striker without 20 goals he just not.

I'll end it like this.

Kane and firmino win us the league.

Costa and firmino win us the league

Lukaku and firmino win us the league

Lallana and firmino do no win us the league.

Blov with the addition of vvd. As I did state earlier.


Taa Lovren vvd Moreno
Hendo can
Salah firmino mane

What gets me is you act as though all these other strikers don't do any of what firmino does. Most of them press, link up play, dribble, assiti. Yet they all score aswel.

Costa does every firmino does, hence why one of the world's most demanding managers in simeone wants him back.

Last question and answer truthfully.

Would you reject mbappe as coutinho replacement if it meant firmino playing as the ten?

17 Aug 2017 22:41:22
5 goals in our first 2 games away from home. Scoring goals is not gona be our issue.

17 Aug 2017 23:43:11
V watford we Scored 3 and conceded 3

which of the above is acceptable and which is unacceptable?

Away V Hoffenheim we scored 2 and conceded 1 and a bad pen.

Which of the above needs improving.

We can go back as far as you want and the answer is the same.

The defence is not fit for the level of football we want to be a constant part of, TOP 4 MINIMUM.

We have to improve the defence and probably goalkeeper.

17 Aug 2017 23:45:39
Edboss what did Kane and lukaku win last year? Sweet fa. They were the 2 top scorers. Goals aren't the issue and neither of those are anywhere near as good as firmino at creating space and chances for others. Kane also scored quite a few pens, firmino wasn't taking them last year. You don't just 'add' 20+ goals cos you add a striker which has achieved that. The way we play is designed for the main 3 to deliver and not rely on a single player.

17 Aug 2017 21:50:40
As this conversation/ thread has developed I get what you are saying ed001. Firmino making us tick. I just saw time against schalke where balls where being whipped in and no one in the box.

Think that is why I feel like having a poacher would be good and I feel like in solanke he could be worth a shot. It's a long shot but why not look at Rashford.

Or the other option is a new midfielder that has the energy and football brain to get in the box too, maybe that is where the keita idea comes from.

{Ed001's Note - the midfield should be doing that job and the wingers, as much as Firmino. Just putting a poacher in there is not going to fix that issue, as then you only have one player there! There should be one attacking front post, one attacking back stick, one or two on the edge of the box for loose balls and one just hanging out on the opposite wing in case the cross makes it that far.}

18 Aug 2017 03:55:18
If there was a stat for chances created OFF the ball (without touching it) . He would be way up the ranks.
Threads like this just prove that many fans don’t even watch the games because what Firmino brings to the side is confusion for defenders.
The space he opens up for any of our advancing players is the reason we score so much, and he does add physical assists to go with it.
The pressure he puts on defenders when they have the ball to cause mistakes also leads to other advancing players latching on to more chances.

If we had an out and out striker every game, our midfield and wingers would not get anywhere near double figure goals.

Anyway the reason we won’t buy an out and out striker is Klopp likes a CF who drops deep. Sturridge even drops deep now which doesn't suit his style but it is the way Klopp wants them to play to give more chances to everybody else to grab goals. AND IT WORKS.
Solanke will probably be our only "plan b" out and out striker but won’t be used much at all except very late in games.
wouldn’t surprise me if Klopp actually trains him to drop deep too eventually to fit the style of play.

{Ed025's Note - ah i get it now phil..firmino is a non scoring centre forward, just like a priest who doesn,t say prayers...or a farmer who is allergic to animals?...i need more tablets..

18 Aug 2017 04:35:12
I got an idea. stop ball watching and start watching what happens off the ball. Firmino is world class with his work off the ball!

{Ed025's Note - yeah..who goes to a game and watches where the ball is going..

18 Aug 2017 06:41:22
Ah ed025, Firmino is the striker who doesn't score goals, who happens to be better than every 'striker' at your club, although I do understand there's a different level of expectation at Liverpool FC, we tend to sign very very good footballers, whilst it would seem your lot are happy to sign middle aged fat blokes.

18 Aug 2017 07:02:39
Come on guys that jibe from Ed025 was classic, well played sir.

18 Aug 2017 08:27:52
Ed01, I sympathize with you. The way people just talk about football and players, you can tell they don't watch games and players closely as many of us do. Saying Firmino is not a 20 goal striker is just pointless cos if you look at his role in the team, he is not asked to score goals, imperatively. His job description is very vast, something a 20 goal striker or Harry Kane is incapable of doing. Harry Kane will be crap in our system just like Benteke was cos he simply can't do the many things Firmino is asked to do, period. His stats are irrelevant, as a result.

Firmino is the lynch pin in our attack and really, defence as he defends from the front. W/ O him, there is no Mane or Salah or Wiji getting space to run into and score goals. Can people just watch the games using their eyes instead of posting pathetic stats and comparisons (Spurs and LFC don't play the same way) that mean nothing.

18 Aug 2017 09:11:43
😂 ed25 he does score goals still I just didn’t add that because people already know he scores. They don’t seem to realise what else he does besides score some and that was the point of my post 😜.

18 Aug 2017 10:41:34
Right we are all talking about replacing coutinho. That's the point.

What the question was is would you rather let firmino take over from cou and sign a top striker with say 120mil or leave firmino up top and sign another number 10.

Alongside vvd signing.

I know lukaku and kane didn't win anything. I said they would of and we would of if they had been in our team last year. That's what I meant. We were fantastic and everyone has brilliant seasons. We just didn't have a striker to finish the ridiculous amount of chances we made. If we had of well it would of been a different story.

Hendo wij
Mane firmino coutinho

Yeah. Lovely.

{Ed001's Note - except the chances would not have been the same with one of those two. Lukaku in particular would not have suited out style of play. You are just making nonsense comparisons and claims that are just ridiculous basing it on numbers that are not going to stay the same if you change the personnel. It is pointless discussing this with someone who is going to just jump to pointless, unusable stats that have absolutely no context to them.}

18 Aug 2017 12:55:23
Spot on ed1.
With a striker like that we would have to change our approach and would have to find completely different ways through the defence because they wouldn’t be being pulled out of position.

Solanke and Origi are all we need for that type of striker, if we are chasing a game and change to a "launch into the box" approach for the last 5-10 minutes of a game.
I couldn't see Kane or Lukaku (your examples) wanting to be used as a super sub / last minute attempt to grab a goal.



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