Liverpool banter 216496

 

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18 Sep 2017 08:52:53
I don't really think defense is the problem here. I still think not having a striker for games like these is.
Studger is low on confidence and not really sprinting. I believe is we started with Solanke we would have won the game. There were far to many balls crossed in the box by TAA and milner that studger couldn't reach. (read didn't put enough effort to reach)
Also there was some poor decision making in the final third esp by coutinho who never played the right pass and always played it in burnley mix of players.
Yes we conceded a stupid goal as usual but i still don't think over 90 minutes defense was the problem. Our not finishing the chances/ half chances was.
we should have played Bobby central or solanke. Studger got the nod purely on his credentials. solanke would have done more damage. esp with his willingness to fight mee and trachowski. Studger didn't bother challenging their duo.

Agree1 Disagree3

18 Sep 2017 09:28:34
Akshit, and how did Spurs and Chelsea and Arsenal who have a true striker do this week? Oh that's it, they fluffed their lines. When we smashed Arsenal and Hoff for fun, did we need a true striker then? Oh cos our boys who have scored goals all over the pitch since Klopp arrived, fluffed their lines in two games, we should have signed a top striker to add to the 5 we already had, right?

We didn't score cos our boys kept hitting and hoping while making poor decisions in the final third. That is where the issue lies and needs improvement. Pls, the "we need a top striker" narrative is becoming tedious and boring. We had a top striker named Benteke and he was a disaster and still is at Palace so sorry, we aren't doing that again.

18 Sep 2017 09:50:28
No, I'm sorry but it's the defence, has been for years and will continue to be so until we discover a couple of decent centre backs and a keeper.

18 Sep 2017 09:56:45
Benteke is not a "top striker". Are you Juergen Klopp himself seen as your making the decisions now? We aren't doing that again 😂.

18 Sep 2017 09:57:36
He means offload Sturridge and buy One!

18 Sep 2017 09:57:39
Bingo your wrong mste you need to play with a striker firmino is a really good player but he is not a cf. Another season of winning nothing may convince you. Liverpool have a great squad but a really poor manager and mark my words you will be coveted In a few months time. Tactically niave and blind to his own shortcomings. With klopp at ghee helm this squad will never reach its potential.

18 Sep 2017 10:12:01
I agree with akshit.
I was going to write my reasons why but it became a novel, so that's all I'm going to say.
The results and shot stats over the last 5 days speak for themselves, we needed a poacher.
Sturridge isn't at his old level right now and maybe he's not ever going to be.
We don't have a top poacher in our squad.
If we had bought someone like Hernandez in the Summer, we'd have won both of those games on Weds and Sat.
Nearly 70 shots - 3 goals.
When the keeper spilled a shot on Saturday, there was nobody within 15 yards of the goal to tap it into an empty net. The shot was only from about 20 yards and was from a Midfielder (Can/ Milner I believe) .
It was the second half and we were supposed to be desperately chasing a winner. Makes no sense!

18 Sep 2017 10:22:56
bingo are on roids mate?
when did i say buy new striker, i said we played wrong striker and had we started with solanke we would have more chance at converting the chances which was visible when solanke came on the pitch he nearly won us the game. he was available in the box often in his brief 10 minutes or so more than studger was for 90 minutes.
i don't know wht you are getting at shooting down every poster.
i am saying play the right striker, he should have had bobby or solanke there and not studger. it held us back.

and how does arsenal and chelsea get into the Mix? what are they supposed to do with how we play?
dont just stuff anything out just to prove your invalid point.

It is clear we drew the game because of not being able to take our chances.

18 Sep 2017 10:25:40
Bingo,
You understand there are more strikers than just Benteke out there right? In fact if I remember right most were against the signing on the basis that his movement and attitude were not that of a top players. Firmino is a very good player much better than I thought but he is not a natural striker.

I understand u would like to pretend all is rosey in the anfield garden but it's not atm. There are glaring holes in your team that need fixing and if Klopp would of kept his mouth shut u might of filled them.

Having said that there are many aspects of your team that is very good. Your speed in transition is prob the best in league if not close.

But it is what it is, u will score many goals but will also concede silly ones to. I've said it for a while, u are a confidence based team, when all is going well u look amazing but when it's not u look shakey and nervous. It's up to klopp to fix that and quick imo.

18 Sep 2017 11:09:57
Bingo gaining mass supporters on the page 😄😄😄.

18 Sep 2017 11:10:13
Spot on Bingo. We would have to change the system to accommodate a striker. Salah and Mane basically play as strikers with Firmino behind and they score plenty of goals. Between them. As a front 3 they have 12 this season already.

If you put a central striker in there, Mane and Salah would have to switch wings so they are on their crossing foot and they would also have to hold the width which is a waste of both player abilities.

I agree Solanke should've gone on sooner. Burnley sat in and soaked our pressure up too easily. Doesn't change the fact that our normal system scores plenty of goals normally.

18 Sep 2017 11:18:06
Mk you have won nothing or don't look like winnning anything so yes maybe a change of system is required.
Harry i think bingo is not quite the full house😂😂.

18 Sep 2017 11:39:13
Why would they have to switch to be on their crossing foot?
Bayern are pretty successful right, Ribery is right footed, plays on the left.
Robben is left footed and plays on the right.
Lewandowski is what I call an out and out Striker and plays most games and yet they all score plenty of goals in this system.
The two formers are older now so not as much as before but still, it's a very workable system.
People complain there's no plan b, well there it is.
Play with an out and out Striker.

18 Sep 2017 11:44:41
Doesn't have to be every game, but in home matches against teams you expect to beat, it can't bloody hurt.
We consistently struggle against these teams to break them down.
When was the last time we played with an out and out forward?
Torres?
Garcia played on the right and was predominantly left footed but scored a few.
Babel was right footed and played on the left and he chipped with a few (when he could be bothered) .
Like I said, it doesn't need to be every game but a plan B option.
What's the worst that can happen?
We draw against the likes of Burnley?
Think that's happening already mate.

18 Sep 2017 11:48:22
MK

Why do you think Mane and Salah needs to change their positions? Firmino is a wonderful player with very poor conversion ratio. What people are asking is not an alien. They demand a player like Firmino + natural finishing instinct. Mane and Salah could just play normal. Why would they need to start crossing the ball? Your idea of a striker must be a Berbatov. A central striker with excellent pace and movement on and off the ball would work wonders alongside Salah and Mane! Salah played excellent alongside a Dzeko at Roma! He had absolutely not problem over there.

That being said I wouldn't drop Bobby for anyone 😎😎.

18 Sep 2017 11:59:15
Garcia and Babel never broke into double figures though did they. Torres scored about half of our goals, Gerrard broke into double figures by taking penalties and free kicks to top up. Although he did have 1 exceptional season where he scored double figures from open play, and Xabi and Mascharno scored once in a blue moon. We were solid, but we relied on Torres for all the goals and when he was injured, we just used to draw or lose. People have such short memories.

And for the record, when Torres was up front we had Kuyt/ Pennant on the right wing (right footed), and Zenden/ Riera on the left (left footed) . Babel was an impact sub at best and Garcia i don't recall ever playing with Torres for us.

18 Sep 2017 12:02:01
I still say you win nothing with a weak spine, we are weak in central midfield and weak in central defence and we are shaky on the goalkeeper front. Until those issues are addressed you can mark us down as also rans.

18 Sep 2017 12:02:57
i will still stick by my original point and say it not our defense that should be major concern. I don't think the defenders we have can defend any better that is the truth as we have seen. no matter what there is uneasiness in our defense and they are hardly supported by the team. our defense is always 4 players who are not very good at it and the midfield isn't helping their cause. so i don't think Klopp can do much about the defense.
What he can do something about is the attack though. it is a very potent attack with variety of options that could be possible
ofcourse there is mane salah and firmino where we can just attack on pace. then there can be mane solanke and salah where there can be crosses. we can also go two upfront out and out with solanke and studger in games like burnley hand have salah and mane/ firmino as LM RM just to have more width and crosses drilled in the centre and many more combinations
we don't even need an immediate signing for our attack unlike our defense.
the thing is we play one way and there is nothing else and teams know how to block us out. and they will continue to do so.

18 Sep 2017 12:20:07
Akshit has nailed it. Both systems have a time and a place and all Klopp needs to do is figure out when to use different offensive tactics. That doesn't actually require any new players though. We have so many strikers that one is on loan and another is in the u23's with 2 more on the bench most weeks.

18 Sep 2017 12:13:43
This was in a defensive team though and Garcia did hit double figures a couple of times.
Lets agree that Garcia and Babel are not of Mane and Salah's quality.
If those two played with Torres though, now that would have given us a better idea.
Again, a Hernandez would have scored a couple in the match on Saturday for me.
He might even have nicked us a goal vs Sevilla.
We looked devoid of ideas in the last 15 minutes on Wednesday.
Again, this is where a plan B might work - a top poacher, not Solanke is learning his trade and should not be relied upon right now.
He's more of a target man than poacher in any case in my opinion.

18 Sep 2017 12:14:07
Harry you clearly have no grasp of how Mane and Salah play, or Liverpool for that matter.

Our main weapon is Firmino. He sits on the defenders toes and then drops deeper for the ball into feet. The centre backs then have a difficult decision. Go with Firmino and leave space in behind which Mane and Salah will run into, or drop off Firmino and let him receive the ball in acres of space to turn and run at them. This system makes Firmino impossible to pick up. If you put Firmino behind a striker, the defensive midfielder will pick him up, the centre backs will mark the striker, and their will be no space in between defenders for Mane and Salah. Hence you need Salah and Mane to stay out wide and work your way forward down the flanks, to get good balls into the box for a striker. The easiest way to do that is switch the wingers back over so they're on their stronger foot, otherwise you end up with the same situation Robben and Ribery started to create at Bayern. They run down the wing, get to the penalty area and then constantly cut inside making them predictable, and they constantly run into traffic.

Don't get me wrong, we would definitely concede less goals because we wouldn't be committing so many player in behind the opposition, but we need to go out and sign a 30 goal a season striker to do what people are suggesting. How have people already forgotten how boring we were under Rafa, and how reliant we were on Torres? The other problem with a 1 man striker system is the one Tottenham have discovered. If you have a 30 goal forward who is undroppable, nobody wants to play second fiddle to that so when your main man gets injured, your back up is a massive reduction in quality! Or have you all forgotten the days when we had to play David N'Gog up front when Torres was missing?

Our system is the best for offensive teams. That is why it is deployed by Barcelona, PSG etc. You just need to accept that we will concede more goals playing this way, and that putting in an out and out striker will actually be detrimental at times to our team.

I fully agree that in certain games and situations, Solanke should be put on to give us a proper striker, but that doesn't mean Firmino doesn't work there. Solanke is a very good future option because like Firmino he is comfortable dropping deeper to receive the ball in to his feet, but also provides more of a target up front. It is nice to have different options though and this pipe dream of us signing a 30 goal striker is exactly that; a pipe dream.

So appreciate what you have.

18 Sep 2017 12:35:42
We only realistically have Sturridge (who is not what he once was) and Solanke as out and out Strikers.
You cannot tell me that Mane/ Salah/ Firmino are considered to be Strikers can you?
They're not!
Ings is not up to speed.
You have youth prospects but that's it.
We do not have a top Striker in the squad.
A top striker would get you 25 goals in a season.
None of our current players would do that, stop being blinkered.
Mane/ Salah will score goals yes but are not Strikers and they might score just as many with a Striker or maybe more, who knows?
We'd need to try it first to know.

18 Sep 2017 12:53:06
I don't know if you're understanding what I'm saying.
Where has the false 9 gotten us this season so far?
Forget City away.
A terrible home draw with Burnley, a poor draw away to Watford, a poor draw at home to a weak Sevilla side. A fortunate ricochet pass to Mane for the win vs Crystal Palace. A very good win against a poor Arsenal side.
Is that a good enough start to the season?
No it's not!
It's the same old story, struggle against deep lying defences and beat the better teams.
This is now common place.
So why not employ the usual tactics vs the better teams and go more attacking/ ambitious vs the teams we struggle to beat each time.
There's a very famous saying about failure and insanity:
Doing the same thing over and over again and yet you expect different results.
It is a famous saying and a true saying for good reason mate.

18 Sep 2017 12:56:08
We'll Mane, Salah and Firmino are all listed on the official club website as forwards so i guess I'd have to agree with that and say they are forwards.

I don't see the point in wasting them behind a striker and sacrificing a midfielder and therefore our ability to press so high.

I don't see the issue with having Solanke and Sturridge as the plan B strikers. Do you really think we can attract better quality to sit on the bench? If we put Firmino in attacking midfield, what happens to Lallana or Coutinho? Because neither of them could play in a midfield 2 and neither will want to be starting on the bench every week.

I like our system and whilst Klopp hasn't got it perfected just yet, i don't really want to go running back to a boring 4-5-1 on a regular basis. Against teams like Burnley i fully agree with putting Solanke up top as a bit of a target in the box, but i really don't understand why people want us to play that way on a regular basis. We are the best team in the league to watch and we have improved under Klopp so why doubt we will continue to improve? i think we will win a trophy this season still so I'm going to keep the faith and give my damning verdicts when our season is over; be that literally or metaphorically!

18 Sep 2017 12:56:12
You did not get my point either. Firmino doesn't score enough for all the work that's being done and that is a worry while another striker would definitely covert those half chances to full.
I have said Firmino is at his vintage best between defenders where his unpredictable movement makes it difficult for defenders to track his runs.

Mane and Salah are wide forwards who doesn't occupy a position by themselves but depends on the pass the receive they occupy and swap a number of positions.
I have seen Firmino dropping in the middle releasing Mane.
The problem is it will be difficult to fit in both a striker and Firmino in the same team and hence I said in the
Bottom I wouldn't drop Firmino for anyone. But Mane and Salah would work excellent with a world class striker. It could be Firmino or a far more natural goal scorer

Firmino doesn't score enough and that is what we are discussing here.

18 Sep 2017 13:03:10
Stand and Ken, why do you care what and who we pick? You're mancs so I don't care what you think. Now back to Akshit's post. We don't only play one way as we have played a 4-4-2 diamond last season and even the season before and we won all the games we played it in BUT that is not what Klopp likes to do if all his guys are available as it will stifle Mane and Salah anyway, IMO.

I think MK has responded the same way I would respond and NO, I did not say that you said we should buy a striker. All I'm saying is that, bar prolly Lewandowski, Jesus or Aguero, IMO there is not striker out there who can play our system fluidly as Bobbie plays it cos Klopp does not use wingers. He uses wide forwards who are strikers and go against CB's instead of against FB's. Firmino's skills are perfect for it.

The system is quite simple to grasp as City and Spurs play the exact same way when they attack. Also, Kane and Morata, both of whom I love, did not change a damn thing for their teams this weekend. You know why? Cos like them, we fluffed our lines and did not get it done in the final third. FACT.

Can we move the team around a little bit during the game? Sure BUT that is not the issue here, IMO. That is what happened this week and not the "had we played with a striker" false argument as that is all it is, a false argument. We created enough chances to score a hatful with a penalty not given in the last two games and had we taken our chances, this conversation along with the "Firmino is not a striker" stuff would not be happening.

18 Sep 2017 13:35:29
Bongo. I have been posting on here for years and do so with great respect.
I rarely if ever refer to my team out of respect i enjoy fair and reasonsble debate and some good hearted banter slagging and craic
As a supporter of one of your rivals i hope klopp keeps his job for another 18 months but i doubt it. Witb another manager and no new players liverpool would be a threat this season because another manager would find a way to protect your awful cb's. Klopp is not the man imo.

18 Sep 2017 14:18:27
Keep posting here Ken. By all means, all welcome mate. Don't care if you support a rival. Cheers.

18 Sep 2017 14:36:09
Cheers kev.

18 Sep 2017 14:40:41
Ken, I know what we are capable of doing as an attacking threat so you have nothing to teach me on that front. Also, that is your opinion but guess what, I still don't care about what a manc has to say so what you think Klopp will achieve or not, or how long you think he will stay or not, is irrelevant to me as I have never cared for Utd nor what they do or don't do. I stand by that and my description as to why a no 9 won't work for us in the way we play and MK Scouser has supported my point with an even better description than I did. You are entitled to your opinion and so am I BUT neither of us are entitled to our own facts. God bless, my friend.

18 Sep 2017 17:48:26
I do have an issue with this constant theme of we didn't need a true striker when we beat this team or that team, no we didn't but then we didn't need good centre backs when we beat them either. The issue isn't the games we win it is the constant drip of games we draw and lose where those weaknesses are the reason. Poor defending and poor finishing will stop this club winnng trophies. We are relying on guys who are 1 in 6-10 conversion rate at best to do the job of a player scoring every 2 or 3 chances. Great when we batter a team and those players are on song, but when there are less chances or they are on their couldn't score if there til tomorrow mode then it becomes an issue. This is the same situation as bit Benitez and Rodgers, not how good the good days were but the inability to go out and get a job done on the nothing special days against the sides that title winners are beating every time.







 

 

 
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