Liverpool banter 216640

 

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22 Sep 2017 00:06:10
We don't have the budgets of the Manchester Clubs, Chelsea or even Arsenal (if they ever decided to spend) .

Managers at those first 3 clubs generally do get big budgets to bring in the players they want within 2 Summer transfer windows, they are then expected to deliver success.

We don't have such budgets so imo our manager should be given 3 Summer transfer windows to build his team. When a manager comes into a club the average remaining years on a players contract in the 1st team squad is probably 3 years. So if he has to balance the books somewhat and trade well it will take 3 Summer Transfer windows. The winter transfer windows, whilst having thrown up the odd nugget are not a good time to do business.

So what has Klopp done in his 2 Summer transfer windows to date?
Well in his first one, having given every player in his first team squad a decent run of games to take a look at them he moved out something like 13 players and brought in 6 (I think) . I believe some of those 6 were not his primary targets but they would do to get us into the top 4 and back into the Champions League which would increase his budget.

In the 2nd transfer window I think he changed tactic. He decided he already has a squad to compete for top 4 and now wanted to build a squad to win the league. So he decided who his targets were to make this happen and if the club couldn't deliver all of them right now he would wait until next season to get them rather than accepting a B or C choice who would get long contracts and only continue the cycle of mediocrity for another 3 to 5 years. That is what happened in the past and we all complained about it.

Also, anyone who manages groups of people know, if you set a low bar it will just about be met but not surpassed. That goes for transfer committee's and CEOs as well. In the past when they didn't deliver the 'A' signing but instead got Balotelli they could say the Manager signed off on all signings. This year they couldn't say that. They either succeeded or failed in getting the targetted player in. Hell they even came up with an inventive solution to secure Keita. Don't under estimate how important setting a new bar for success or failure in signings is for the club.

So we need to give the manager some more time. Like it or not we have the purse strings of Spurs but with some of our fans having the ego of City.

Agree12 Disagree1

22 Sep 2017 04:54:48
We have the budget. we would have spent more than united and arsenal this window if we got both Keita and vvd.
He desperately wanted a defender he should have bought one. I think he missed the trick when he went for AOC instead of a defender. Bar that I agree I would give klopp enough time to bring in defensive reinforcements and then see how we perform.
Right now I don't think klopp can do anything with defensive errors and lapses every game. He can't be blamed for players foolishness. Like all of us he is also sick of it;)

22 Sep 2017 05:51:24
Constructive criticism

Akshit

He is the one responsible for the 4 players still at the club i. e. ( Klavan, Matip, Lovren and Mignolet ) under his regime both the defense and midfield has been utter mediocre.

{Ed001's Note - what is constructive about that? Try again Harry, that was far from constructive.}

22 Sep 2017 06:01:27
I ll change it to destructive criticism / bitter truth / Smell the coffee / hard life / Reality Ed01 πŸ˜„πŸ˜„πŸ˜„.

{Ed001's Note - I would have gone with repetitive whinging personally..... :-P

22 Sep 2017 06:09:28
I know you would definitely go with that! You too are a part of super aliens Ed01 πŸ˜„.

{Ed001's Note - I just don't see the point in judging this early in the season. The title is not won or lost over 5 games, no matter what the morons in the media may tell you. The team that gets the best start very rarely is the one that goes on to win the league. It is easier to improve on a poor start than it is to maintain good performances.}

22 Sep 2017 06:26:02
Exactly i think Klopp needs to be given time to bring in his defensive reinforcements to judge him.
he is dead under pan with this defense because our defenders continue to make foolish mistakes every game and i can't blame a coach for player mistakes. i think for most of the game we are defensively organised and we do well and out of nowhere somebody gets on the roofies kick in one of defenders and he does something that cannot be explained by people on this planet and with our luck we get punished.
Hard to blame the manager for that, i am just glad he doesn't have sharp objects around him every time he sees that kind of stupidity :P.

22 Sep 2017 06:41:40
Ed001 while I agree, I think what worries some (including myself) is that apart fixing left back and getting in Salah, we still have the same ongoing issues from last season. And for some reason they feel even worse this time - I believe because we had higher expectations to the transfer window and our team improvements in general.

But you're right, a few games of bad form shouldn't define how the whole season pans out. And whilst the issues we currently have is a little bit worrying hopefully a win tomorrow could turn it around a bit as I still believe we could go on to have a very proper season overall.

{Ed001's Note - it is raised expectations that are the problem mate. People expected us to go out and blast every other team away for some reason. It is a lack of realistic expectations, added to an inability to look at things in perspective and without this bizarre sense of entitlement so many people have. For some reason they think they are entitled to expect everything they want now, rather than backing the team as they work to achieve it.}

22 Sep 2017 07:03:06
Oh c'mon Ed01, You sound like bingo now! Raising expectations? Putting things into perspective and be a realist? I want this club to win or try to win title every season! Put me in any group it doesn't matter! We had the money to buy and we did not!

{Ed001's Note - I sound like a sensible person, you sound like an entitled brat expecting everything. I understand that sometimes things are not that easy. This is not FIFA or Football Manager, you can't just throw money at it and suddenly all the problems are fixed. Spurs have taken years to build, they are who we have to compare ourselves to right now. They have many times come away from a transfer window frustrated by a failure to get the right players, but they have gradually built up a team. Why can't we do the same?}

22 Sep 2017 07:10:48
It's a good point Ed001 makes, Chelsea prime example last season and if you remember the latter years of Fergie's teams, they always turned the corner after Christmas.

But, I totally agree with WCD, we make the same mistakes at the back over and over, the same mistakes as last season and the same mistakes under BR.

We talk about waiting to sign a world class CB but can we afford? Not just the transfer fees but the salaries? Will they come to LFC, someone mentioned Cavani on another thread, Ed 001 very quite rightly said alluded - no chance.
A couple of days ago I said we should keep an eye on Toby Alderweireld's contract situation at Spurs - Replies comments included, he won't come to us, bigger clubs out there, couldn't afford him etc etc.

I understand that Klopp plays a certain way and seeks players that fit in with this but when it comes to CB you need

I don't understand why Klopp put all his eggs in one basket with VVD because in other areas targeted he had other options, Salah for instance was not his first choice.

The trouble now is that teams know they have a great chance of scoring against us and this gives them a physiological boost.

I understand that Klopp plays a certain way and seeks players that fit in with this mould but we also need someone at the back that can lead the back four and be solid in the air, attack and head the ball when the opposition cross the ball from corners and set pieces. A basic trait but these are just some of the basic errors that surface every game.

{Ed001's Note - it is simple, there is a surfeit of attacking player but a dearth of good defensive players to choose from. All the top clubs had similar problems recruiting a centre back this summer, there just are so few of real quality clubs were not letting them go. Even a good, rather than top class, defender like Evans was impossible to buy this summer. I mean how many times have Man City been priced out of buying a player they desperately need before?}

22 Sep 2017 07:31:59
We can do the same but we seem incapable of signing defenders or decent ones at least. the area we have been poor in since rafa. Why haven't we added any eds?

{Ed001's Note - I just answered this in the reply above.}

22 Sep 2017 07:46:55
One thing I find notable is that, after two summer windows, there are only three Klopp signings established as first choice; Mane, Salah and Matip. If VVD and Keita had come this summer then it would have been 5 and Roberson may become another but, as it stands, it's just three. I would have thought that's quite uncommon.

22 Sep 2017 07:47:43
Great post, Fitzy. Loved every word of it and you have diagnosed the situation seamlessly. Bravo, sir. On the CB tip, Klopp bought Matip as a stop gap until he finds the one he really wants and that is already causing issues so why should he buy another warm bod/ stop gap again? That is senseless. When that player starts making mistakes then people will be saying he should have just done a Milner at LB and kept the money instead of wasting it on a player he did not want. See how that works? That is hindsight crap that does my head in.

Harry, Ed is right. You always sound like a petulant, self- entitled brat and you're not the only one. You think we should just be steam-rolling teams at a canter and when that SHOCKINGLY, does not happen (when has that really happened), you and some of your ilk get on your soapboxes and start spouting crap about us not being ambitious and Klopp is a failure and blah, blah, blah. I was an amateur footballer and high school athlete. I know that you have to respect the oppo and the game. If you want to win, you have to bring it every time regardless of who compete in every game.

News Flash: We have been mediocre in the PL for over two decades now and have not seen CL footie at Anfield for 4 seasons. Now, you think we should just steamroll teams cos we are LFC? Your self entitlement and pompous attitude is deafening. You guys are part of the problem as there is NO perspective in any of your posts. We are who we are and NOT in City or Utd's league anymore and haven't been for years. They can drop 300m every season on players. We can't. you are aware that Rafa tried that and we almost went bust BUT that's not your problem, is it? Take a leaf out of Fitzy's post, you may learn something.

P/ S: Ed if you are a sensible person and Harry compared my position to yours, then that makes me a sensible person to, right? I'll take the hidden compliment wherever I can get it.

{Ed001's Note - well I wouldn't go that far.....}

22 Sep 2017 07:50:27
Aye, that seems to be the case Ed001 mate.
People quickly forget what mess we were in when Brendan was sacked - and it seems like the Klopp-effect has overtaken most supporters with everyone expecting and craving almost instant success as soon as he was appointed manager for our club and still doing so. I guess the main difference here is to want success and backing the team and to expect success and slating the team.

I've tried my best not to slate the team - still I think it's obvious where improvements are needed and I'm still quite disappointed with the way the transfer window went - not getting a defensive midfielder and also Klopp's tendency to rotate on a daily basis (especially at the back 5) has been a bit worrying for me. So I do think we're allowed to expect better at some points. Just not at every tiny little thing that doesn't seem to suit us supporters the slightest.

Again, a run of bad form shouldn't define anything and as soon as we hit our form (which we will) I'm sure we'll be challenging for the top four spot (which apart from the current form, we pretty much still are)

22 Sep 2017 08:00:20
Ed001, why didn't City go for VVD? Every man and his dog saying he's a good defender and ultimately better than Otamandi.

Do you reckon they were respecting Saints stance saying he's not for sale?

{Ed001's Note - they did but he told them he wanted to join us. Chelsea did but refused to go near the asking price. Saints only told the media he was not for sale, they quoted an asking price prior to the tapping up saga coming to light.}

22 Sep 2017 08:05:57
Well said Fitzy, excellent post mate!
People need to get real and quickly.
Those complaining about the same mistakes being made over and over, look it's a fair complaint but think of it like this please;

You're at work and struggling to do a job, your boss (the fans) come and notice this.
He stands near and watches you closely and starts moaning and groaning every time he sees you do something slightly wrong.
He goes to another manager (the media) within earshot of you and starts moaning to him/ her about you.
Your teammates are also hearing and seeing this.
The next day you come to work, confidence shattered, you see your boss standing near your work area and think "here we go again".
There's just no end to it.
The only way out is to talk to your manager at work and see if you can come to an agreement or arrangement. How can Lovren for example move on if he hears the Kop/ Main Stand or wherever moan and groan every time he makes a small mistake?
Not only is he at fault for some of his errors, so are the fans who get on his back.

I know it's difficult to not moan and groan every time an error happens as you're dying for your club to succeed, I get that.
You've also paid hard earned cash to go to these games only to be left down again (you probably feel that way too) .
That's all fine, but he's not purposefully making these mistakes.
It's partially down to being self aware, more than ever or self conscious if you like.

Bruce Lee, who as you might know was a great Philosopher, Martial Artist, Actor and many other things once said "The consciousness of self is one's greatest enemy/ hindrance".
He's not still remembered 44 years after his death for nothing, I think it's fair to say he knew his stuff from a physicality and mentality point of view for an athlete don't you?!

Novel done :)

22 Sep 2017 08:30:11
Does anyone above could tell me the actual meaning of BRAT! Two people have called me by it and I would love to know what does that mean!

Cheers.

22 Sep 2017 08:42:36
Taking all of that in to account, would you say that makes Bonucci for €40m a great deal for AC Ed?

{Ed001's Note - depends on how he performs for them really but right now it is not looking that great. While he has been a great centre back in the past, there were issues at the end with Juve and they were glad to get rid. He might well be good for Milan anyway, but he would not have suited English football, not at the clubs contesting top 4 places anyway. He needs a team to play deeper to get the best out of him. Bonucci is very much an excellent Italian-style defender who needs to be playing in a team built in that kind of style. Milan play with a more expansive style, from the couple of games I have seen and he has been a little exposed.}

22 Sep 2017 08:53:05
Google it, genius.

22 Sep 2017 09:10:13
Oh I did Bingo, Thanks for the compliment! This is the last thread I would ever call you / involve in any kind of argument. Good luck with your life!

22 Sep 2017 09:12:37
B stands for Brendan.
R stands for Rodgers.
A stands for Almost.
T stands for Turned You :)

22 Sep 2017 09:37:27
A brat is a spoilt/ self absorbed child Harry. Which is why it is hilariously ironic that you've reacted to me and Bingo calling you out, by having a temper tantrum and giving us both the silent treatment πŸ˜‚

Come on mate, nobody is going to give you any sympathy. You come on here and constantly poke at us Liverpool fans, then throw are strop when we retaliate and put you in your place?

I like you mate. Honestly. So i implore you not to abstain from any discussion/ debate. You do have some "oh dear" moments, but don't we all? I rarely if ever get more agrees than disagrees on my posts, but who cares what people on the internet think? Just take at as a compliment that they even acknowledge you.

22 Sep 2017 09:38:00
At last Ed1 and Fitzy someone talking sense! People think we can just go out and buy whoever we want and the problem is fixed rather than slowly build a squad. Didn't we learn from Rodgers regime that just buying average players that don't fit the system leads to problems rather than solutions? People have such short memories.

22 Sep 2017 09:52:34
Harry, relax buddy, they were both just providing you with some 'constructive criticism'

22 Sep 2017 10:18:36
Ings

Why did we buy Matip, Klavan and Lovren if your intention was to play high line? You do agree none are capable to play high line! Or you want the entire posters to ignore this fact!

Constructive criticism only mate!

22 Sep 2017 13:04:35
Bingo red. most self obsessed post I've seen in a long while. Do me a favour and wind that neck in.

22 Sep 2017 16:34:30
People blaming klopp for not buying a ball winning midfielder, would you take nzonzi now or keita next season? I know which one I would pick but petulant kids are famously inpatient eh.

22 Sep 2017 18:20:18
Ed1 can you not get someone you know at the club. to pass on a list of defenders to klopp lol give them some players to look at. It seems if they are outside southampton area. we rarely look at all.

{Ed001's Note - if only the club did listen.}

23 Sep 2017 12:16:02
Lfcdiamond, what's self-obsessed about it? Care to elaborate?







 

 

 
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