Liverpool banter 216715


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25 Sep 2017 13:17:09
I want to address the elephant in the room, in this case it’s the bulletproof vest that Klopp wears. Two years after he first arrived Klopp is still largely untouchable, amongst Liverpool fans at least. The defence isn’t his fault because, don’t forget, he did at least try and sign a defender; it’s not Klopp’s fault that he’s picking Migs, it’s because the media and those nasty fans are forcing him to do it; fail to win in four games, it’s because the players are letting Klopp down. Fundamentally team performance is the responsibility of the manager, if the team is underperforming then the manager is, as a minimum, partially at fault. So why does Klopp escape criticism? let's talk about that.

When we break down Klopp’s performance there are a number of things worthy of criticism. He’s got a poor record promoting youth, he’s fundamentally failed to address our defensive problems, his overall record is nothing to boast about and yet he is still adored. However, this post is not about criticising Klopp, we’re actually well placed to challenge for the title soon, maybe even this season. This post is about why fans afford Klopp a benefit of the doubt no other manager (with the exception of Dalglish) would receive.

Klopp was preceded by the most unpopular manager in Liverpool history, I won’t go into whether that was fair or not (Rodger’s Liverpool never performed as poorly as his predecessor’s for example) but his unpopularity is unquestionable. Klopp is everything Rodgers was not, he’s charismatic, passionate and 100% box office. Couple this with an excellent reputation from Germany and he was every Liverpool fans’ dream. After the disappointment of Rodgers final year Klopp was the messiah and we went head over heals emotionally investing in his potential success. This is the first part of why Klopp is given free ride, to admit his faults is to admit we were wrong to idolise him back at the start.

The second part is that Klopp is a bit of a tease, every time we start to doubt him he pulls out a performance which shows just how good Liverpool can be under his guidance, the most recent being the Arsenal game. These performances give us an excuse to discount the bad performances as aberrations that Klopp can’t possibly be responsible for, instead it’s because our players lack motivation against the lower teams (surely it’s Klopp’s job to ensure the players are in the right mind-set for every game? ), there’s a lack of leadership (isn’t Klopp supposed to be a leader? ) or the players are making mistakes (these are same players that Klopp has not replaced and routinely picks week in, week out) .

This is not a Klopp out post, I’m still more than happy he’s the manager, he’s transformed the atmosphere at the club, he’s got the best out of players that were previously considered deficient and, my god, when he gets it right we’re out of this world. This is more that our frustrations need to be channelled more healthily. With few exceptions, the squad has received excessive criticism this season, some of it toxic. A proportion of this criticism comes from dissatisfaction with team performance, this is Klopp’s responsibility. Let’s stop unloading on players for Klopp’s deficiencies, Klopp’s a big boy, he can take the pressure. Klopp has idol status which he hasn’t earned, a bit of humility might actually do him good.

Agree12 Disagree23

25 Sep 2017 13:57:57
There's no way he has a bulletproof vest. Most of us can see his failings as coach/ manager, we just don't need to act like it's the end of the world when it isn't going to plan.

The dramatic over the top reactions to a couple of draws make for some difficult reading. Yes the defence isn't up to the standard we all want and yes Klopp is to blame for that but moaning and calling for Klopp out (which is certainly limited to a smaller percentage of the fan base) is nonsense.

We know from ed01 that Klopp knows we have problems at CB and GK and hopefully he will rectify them asap when the transfer windows roll around.

I think saying he is untouchable and bulletproof only applies to a tiny minority but that's expected when you have fandom and bias. We're a cracking team when we are on and frustratingly bad when not on and that's down to JK and I think most people see that.

25 Sep 2017 14:01:03
Contructive Criticism :)

25 Sep 2017 14:03:25
For me, you can pull out all the statistics, win percentages, goals conceded etc and it ultimately means nothing.

Klopp took a faltering team that looked liked slipping away into mid table mediocrity under Rodgers, and then took us to two cup finals in his first season. Something that hadn't happened at all under Rodgers. In his second season he got us back into the Champions league and before we lost our Mane man (excuse the pun) we were in a title challenge.

Now we are in his third season and if we are honest the only way to progress on last season is to win something or at least have a proper title challenge. If we just finish top 4 again though then at least we're not going backwards.

You can't judge Klopp against different managers stats. What Rodgers stats won't show you is that he had 5 arguably world class players when he took over in Reina, Carragher, Agger, Gerrard and Suarez. When he left we had arguably 1 left in Coutinho.

What Rodgers did, was progressively take us backwards from a cup winning team with a handful of top players on the up under Dalglish, to being mid table whipping boys. A 14 game winning run which ultimately was an anomaly in Rodgers tenure doesn't change that.

Klopp by contrast has gradually taken us forward. You can argue that Coutinho, Keita, Salah and Mane are world class. So Klopp is slowly building a team of top players again. Unlike his predecessor who sold top players and replaced them with average players.

I don't really care if Mane, Salah etc were Klopps choices. All i care about is the fact that Klopp is getting the best out of them. Another thing that Rodgers rarely managed.

Win percentages are irrelevant. Rodgers was competing for most of his time here against Harry Redknapps Spurs, Leicester were in the Championship, David Moyes's and LVG's United, Martinez's Everton, Chelsea were yo yo-ing in and out of mid table and Arsenal were still just also rans. The only consistently good team he faved was Man City. Not to mention that this was before TV money had the likes of Stoke and Palace paying £30m for individual players. The league is massively more competitive now and Klopp still has us competing more consistently than Rodgers.

Ultimately Putney, Klopp has made mistakes. The goal keeper situation is a shambles, and our centre back options are just not good enough. His tapping up saga of the summer was also embarrassing and Klopp did lose both finals and a semi final despite getting there. So it isn't all rosey. However, we are moving forward very clearly for anyone with the perspective to take a step back and as you say, we will start competing for titles again at this rate.

Klopp is not immune to criticism. There are just a lot of people backing him and willing to defend him from unjust criticism. He's been here just 2 years as of gameweek 8 this season. Look at how poor we were back then, to how scintillating we are now. That is all the evidence i need. By the start of next season he will have been here just about 3 years and for me, that is when all excuses dry up. You can't have 3 summer transfer windows and still be claiming the players weren't available. I still think we can challenge this year. But Klopp gave himself 4 years to win a league title, so hopefully he keeps that promise.

25 Sep 2017 13:50:51
sorry puteny i agree with all here the goalkeeper and defence need sorted, but im sick and tired of hearing about rodgers liverpool.
LOOK mate you can't compare the two sides rodgers side had two of the so called world class players, suarez and gerrard, this side does not it has potential world class stars but they are not world class yet and that 13/ 14 season was the season of suarez he carried that team on his soldiers he gave sturridge his best goal scoring season he ever had because people where that afraid of him.
For my thinking klopp does not have a bullet proof vest there is enough of ex players and fans out there calling for his head and criticising him more than they criticised roy hodgson probably the worst i've seen in my 44 years imo.
Now ill always support players managers of liverpool don't like criticising them and imo klopp knows his problems he admits them and i think all the changes he is making with the defence is because he is not happy and as always happens people are not performing how they train and he is still seeking the solution until he can get the players he wants in.

25 Sep 2017 14:30:08
Carrager agger and reina were never world class and mane and salah are not world class and not by a long way. Very good players but a long way from being woeld class.

25 Sep 2017 14:27:23
I understand that the manager takes some stick when the team don't win but I wouldn't say they haven't performed in those four games. We created the chances. It isn't an elephant in the room Putney because everyday for the last two weeks klopp has been getting stick on here. This is just needlessly stirring the pot again even though we won. Klopp comes across as a really nice guy when talking to the media and people find it hard to dislike him, even the vampires that are the British press! He has also achieved in his career so is given the due respect. I love this site and when liverpool were doing well this season it was a great place to come and chat about LFC. Liverpool haven't played that great in the last five games (not that bad either) and this site has become quite venomous. The three day debate about liverpool needing new attackers epitomises the rubbish that a lot of so called fans talk.

{Ed002's Note - You are still struggling to see beyond your rose tinted spectacles and your obsession with Klopp being "world class" - he isn't. Yes, quite a few years ago Klopp had a little success - and that is it. Nothing more.}

25 Sep 2017 14:52:10
Reina, Carragher and Agger were world class, and could argue Salah is now? Come on MK. Go get some sleep mate.

25 Sep 2017 14:59:41
Yes ed, he has done what very few managers have done and won the league. I didn't say he was world class but now you mention it, I think he is mate. It is nothing to do with red tinted glasses ed mate, we have created the chances in the games we didn't win. You cannot blame klopp for not tucking them away. If we scored even just a third of the chances we create we would be winning each game 7 2 at least. You have to admit ed02 that klopp's record against the top six teams is very very good, exemplary apart from the city match. He is working on a limited budget and therefore has had to take a punt on klavan karius etc but has also found bargains like matip and Robertson. He qualified for ucl with the thinnest squad out of the top six. Finished loads of points above utd who spent hundreds of millions last year. You make out that winning the league is nothing to shout about. I don't know all the ins and outs ed dude, all I can go on is what I see and I see us playing some of the best football I have seen from my team in a long long time. And let's not forget, dortmund winning the German league back then would be similar to someone like Aberdeen winning the Scottish prem and breaking the monopoly that Munich or celtic had on their respective leagues. Credit where it's due.

{Ed002's Note - He is far, far from world class. I am not sure of the relevance of games against the top six, but it is rather more than that which determines success. How is his record against Rodgers? He is not working on a "limited budget" - he is simply not good enough. I have no idea what you mean by "thinnest squad". I am not sure where I have said that "winning the league is nothing to shout about". As I said Klopp is not "world class", a decent manager - but that is it. The man has been acting like a clown. He is a liar and his attempts at cheating failed - leaving him subject to ridicule by at least those members of the press close to Liverpool that he briefed back in April. He has achieved nothing for years - except to excel at unprofessionalism and embarrassing Liverpool Football Club.}

25 Sep 2017 15:01:38
Klopps success at Dortmund was not fluke. He built a team around a very strong spine of Weidenfeller, Hummels, Subotic Bender and Gundogan.
Unfortunately, he seems to think that his current crop of LFC goalkeepers and defenders especially the CBs are better than they actually are.
I do think he's now realised this after this season's poor defensive start and it will be addressed in the next couple of transfer windows.
The attacking pieces of the jigsaw are in place - now for the defensive pieces to come in.
Many will say that you build a team around the defence but I do genuinely think that Klopp has held the belief that the current defence is good enough when we can clearly see form the outside that it is not.

{Ed002's Note - And he should have the Mane and Coutinho money to spend on sorting the defence out.}

25 Sep 2017 15:02:23
Whichever way you look at it klopp was the manager who signed mane salah and wijnaldum. If he isn't getting the credit for that then you can't point at klavan caulker and karius and say klopp dropped the ball there.

{Ed002's Note - You really don't get it do you?}

25 Sep 2017 15:04:07
Very funny to see regular posters using Rodgers to make Klopp look good.

Come on guys. why can't we move on?

Do we still need to berate Rodgers to make Klopp look good?

Lets focus or refocus here to talk about Klopp and provide his plus and minus and not go back to Rodgers again and again.


25 Sep 2017 15:07:48
Ken, that's nothing more than a more attempt to change the subject.

My point is clear. Rodgers started off with a good foundation and left a poor foundation. Klopp started off with a poor foundation and if he was sacked tomorrow any new coach would have a good foundation.

For me, the measure of a good manager is leaving a club in a better position than you found it in.

It really is irrelevant what you define as world class or not. Though i completely respect your right to disagree which is why i very intentionally used the phrase "arguably world class". I did not once state my opinion as a forgone conclusion, specifically because i know how much peoples opinions vary on what constitutes being a world class player.

25 Sep 2017 15:07:49
For me His failings are, his transfer windows. Terrible.
And the whole too late substitution thing.
Sort them out and trophies will follow.

25 Sep 2017 15:14:54
I agree mk. Carra reina and agger were world class at their peak. Especially reina. Salah will get there imo. Mane coutinio and firmino are all either world class or on the way to becoming world class. I understand my opinion on this is not taken seriously but ce la vie.

25 Sep 2017 15:18:33
Supporters in general are too quick to praise or criticise.

After a win we have world class players and after a loss we are terrible and the whole lot needs changing.

Once we have some more perspective we should get a more balanced view.

Personally think our defence is substandard but I appreciate the difficulties in getting in the right personnel.

I would be delighted to see Karius or award given an extend d run.

I still think Klopp is the best coach we could have and he gets much mor right than he gets wrong.

25 Sep 2017 15:24:33
superred whatever he has achieved is long time back. Kloop can't even get his basic right. he is still trying to fit square pegs in round holes just like Br.

25 Sep 2017 15:31:52
Of course he has a limited budget compared to our rivals. City chelsea and utd. Even arsenal. We are more in the spurs bracket when it comes to money. That is not a rash claim, it's bleeding obvious. We don't have as much money as those four and can't compare with the wages they offer.

What is it I don't get ed? Sorry if I'm being dense, perhaps you can enlighten me? Either klopp gets the credit for signing mane and salah etc and the blame for signing klavan caulker etc or he doesn't get the credit for signing mane etc and doesn't take the blame for signing klavan etc. It can't be both can it?

Surely his record against the top six is of some relevance. He has lost once in 13/ 14 games against Jose conte guardiola etc that is not a fluke, that is a very classy record.

{Ed002's Note - Well the first thing you don't get is the money. Klopp has not been working to a limited budget - he has chosen how to spend the money (unwisely in many cases) - and the comparisons to other sides is absolutely pointless.

The second thing you don't get is that Klopp takes credit that he identified the likes of Klaven, Caulker, Matip and Karius. Mane can be credited as one of Sven Mislintat's findings that Klopp returned to after moving to Liverpool. Salah was third choice and identified by the Liverpool scouting team because Klopp was unable to persuade (after an illegal approach) his first choice to make the move. The record is of no relevance - where sides end up and what they achieve is what will be remembered.}

25 Sep 2017 15:42:36
Really didn't want to get sucked into a debate on those players, Stand.

My definition of world class is being in the top 10 at what you do in the world. Agree or disagree, but that is how i quantify it. It's a subjective term, so get over it.

Reina, love him or hate him was easily in the top 10 keepers in the world for me. Even 5 years on he is still playing for title challenging sides in top flights across Europe.

Agger, about when Rodgers joined rejected an offer from Barcelona. He was probably one of the best ball playing centre backs in world football, despite his injury troubles. I personally don't think there was anyone better when he was fit. Just a shame that was only 20 games a season.

Carragher was a leader. A defensive organiser. In my opinion, he was still in the top 5 at what he did in the world the day he retired and i wish he'd given us one more season. He was right up there with Puyol, Terry and co at what he did. You only need to look at how our defence capitulated without him to see how good he was. He was a dying breed of player.

Gerrard, I'm not even going to reply to. Really?

Suarez is still in the top 5 players in the world, period. Forget at what he does, he is up there with Ronaldo and Messi at times.

Salah and Mane as far as goal scoring wide forwards come, are both right up there. They are the best in the Premier League for me alongside Sanchez and Hazard. Nobody else gets near those 4 in my opinion. Both our wide men are good for 15 goals a season historically, and I'll bet they hit over 20 each this year in all competitions. In fact Mane is probably in the top 5 players in the whole Prem. Aside from Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Aubameyang, Lewandiwski or Griezmann I'm not swapping either of them for anyone else in the game.

Coutinho? Really? We just turned down a £120m + bid for him. If he isn't world class then Man Utd don't have a world class player because he'd walk into your team with a broken leg.

As for Keita, people are calling him the best player in Germany at 22 years old so if you want to debate whether he is world class go ahead. From what i have seen he easily goes into the top 10 box to box players in the world, so that makes him world class with my criteria.

Therefore i would say all those players are ARGUABLY world class. Because i just made a realistic argument for them, whether you agree or not. You are entitled to disagree, but why not grow up and have a debate instead of just trying to wind me up with insulting replies?

If your definition of world class is limited to literally just Messi and Ronaldo, that is totally fine. But why not just humbly disagree and explain why, instead of being a troll.

25 Sep 2017 15:52:21
I'll wager, there's not a set of fans in the Premiere League who wouldn't want Jurgen Klopp as their Manager.
We're so lucky, and honoured to have him.
Long many he remain at LFC.

{Ed002's Note - You are joking I assume. With his track record I am sure the other fans hope he stays at Liverpool a long time as well.}

25 Sep 2017 16:02:29
Ok cheers for clearing that up. I guess ultimately he has the final say on transfers though doesn't he? . Personally I think his attacking signings have been very good and his defencive ones have been pretty poor. One week I think matip is the worst defender we have had for a long time then the next week he looks like one of the best we have had for a long time. Consistency.

I think how much we have spent compared to chelski city utd is relevant when we are comparing liverpool to those teams. If you are not sure what I mean about lfc qualifying for ucl with a thin squad then look at our bench last season.

Klopp HAS given youngsters their chance of course. Look at taa and gomes who are becoming regulars and woodburn.

World class is a hard term to define and I have taken stick for how low I set the bar for that term. Fair enough. I saw someone saying the top 22 players in the world (I think that is a little too elitist but) klopp must be in the top 22 managers in the world surely?

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool are not going to buy a player that Klopp does not want. It could potentially be that a player could be sold regardless of what he wants - particularly if the player really wants out. This is a matter for the club but I am aware of two recent approaches that have been made about transfers directly to FSG as the clubs in question did not want to deal with LFC itself.

Previously you were speaking about Klopp was working on a limited budget and now you want to compare expenditure. It is not relevant.

Liverpool used 23 different players in the Premier League last season and Chelsea used 24 - it is hardly much different.

I am not sure that I had said anything about Klopp and youngsters.

There are a handful of "world class" managers and that is generally determined by success at the highest level. Whatever way you look at it, even with 22 managers Klopp would likely not feature right now.}

25 Sep 2017 16:13:45
He's a good coach and I'm happy he is here but he certainly isn't bullet proof - he clearly gets criticism for his lack of sorting the defence and if it continues it'll eventually be his downfall just like any other coach.

Bottom line is we are in CL and playing better football than we were before he arrived, with potential to get much better. It's not making him bullet proof to give him the chance to see if he can continue to improve the team from here. bottom line is clubs rotate their coaches way too often IMO and I suspect given time Klopp will learn and figure things out with time.

We don't need any Klopp out rubbish every time there are a couple of defeats.

25 Sep 2017 16:23:24
Klopp is a good manager, yes we have an awesome attack and he deserves a lot of credit for that, however, we have an awful defense and poor goal keepers so he also must accept the blame for that. He has had more than enough windows to improve the defense and plenty of money made available but he hasn't made the improvements which must be seen as a huge flaw.
Yes he got us to two finals but lost both, a great start to last season but then an al, out disastrous capitulation and we just scrapped into 4th.
The concern is with the shocking start this season, no window open, will he be grace enough or clever enough to change he tactics to try and offer more support to a "shot to pieces" defense, if he doesn't we will concede a lot more goals hoping that the attack can get 3 or 4 every game to make up for the defensive frailties.
Jose (who I really don't like ) has shown he's a world class manager. He's inherited a very poor Utd team and won two cups last season playing the football he needed to play "to get results". He looked at the problems in his squad and has done a good job buying in the quality the club needed. With the exception of Pogmas fee the other players are all well within our budget.
Nobody remembers the great games or attacking football teams played they remember who won the cups and titles, winning ugly gets you 3 points, the same as winning with flair.

25 Sep 2017 15:57:00
Ed1, idea for a future podcast, me versus MK on Rodgers' legacy.

{Ed001's Note - I can't imagine anything I would less rather hear about. More excuses for his failings. Yawn.}

25 Sep 2017 16:46:56
I'd rather not debate about Rodgers either. I've only even referenced him in my reply because you brought him up Putney.

Although fair play to him, as his comments regarding Klopp this morning were very professional and kind.

25 Sep 2017 17:05:06
It pains me to say but some reds fans are so fickle and naive it's unbelievable. Got to trust in Klopp as I think he will get it right in the next year or two. Imagine we didn't have Klopp, wouldn't be as good as we are now.

25 Sep 2017 16:55:38
Sorry ed02 I wasn't aiming the youngsters quote at you mate, it was the original post I think that said youngsters don't get a chance under klopp.

I know the squad numbers isn't that different dude but the quality in the fringes of the squad last year was nowhere near as strong as chelsea.

I agree the tapping up thing was embarrassing but more than that, it cost us possibly the most important player of the window in VVD. I doubt we are the only team that is guilty of it although I am aware that is no excuse. I didn't start this thread to say klopp is world class, I responded as I don't think he deserves to be shot down every day. World class or not he is a very good manager and we play some really nice football under him. I think we will see the best of klopp's liverpool when we have keita and Vvd. I would add a top GK to that and then expect us to seriously challenge on all fronts.

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool are far from the only team that gets involved in tapping up but Klopp has taken it to new extremes costing the club reputation, money and a great deal of embarrassment. A complaint still sits on file with the Premier League in addition to the letters written by other sides to Liverpool (three at least in the past 14 months). I have explained all of this before. You are correct that Liverpool are playing well from an attacking perspective. The jury remains out on Keita somewhat but I would not hold your breath for van Dijk. The club formally withdrew all interest in him.}

25 Sep 2017 17:26:54
Top manager, perfect for us wer lucky to have him. If only he was better in the transfer seen as he's never actually bought a decent player HIMSELF while buying a load of donkeys for LFC so far. He insists on not giving youth a try and keeps being the only manager who's a bit dodgy regarding transfers. I think he needs to get a grip, he's only had a LITTLE success! 😉😉😉.

25 Sep 2017 17:51:48
I thought the owners would go for Carlo ancelotti but then they signed klopp.

{Ed002's Note - That was because of what Klopp told them.}

25 Sep 2017 17:53:45
Oh Ed1, you're just scared I'd blow your mind and make you doubt everything you believe in ;-)

MK, I didn't mention Rodgers to compare his record to Klopp's, like you I think it's a pointless exercise. I was making the point that, after Rodgers, fans were so grateful for Klopp that they lost their sense of perspective.

P. S. For the record, where your analysis on Rodgers goes wrong is that you think he took over a decent squad. Everything changes when you understand that it was anything but ;)

{Ed001's Note - mind? No one has ever accused me of having one of them before!}

25 Sep 2017 18:16:43
Back to the original post : Roy Hodgson was the most unpopular manager in Liverpools history, not Brendan.

Klopp inherited a side that had little attacking intent and very poor organisation and team spirit. He transformed that team in no time. He had a choice when he arrived. Focus on the rubbish defence or the rubbish attack. He's not a miracle worker, he's a good hard working manager, so he had to choose. He chose well. You can't win games if you're not scoring goals and you can't get the fans on side and excited if you aren't attacking.
I think we can safely say, Liverpool is one of the most attacking and entertaining teams in the league again. You could not say this during Rodgers last season.

Now Klopp has to sort the defence out without jeopardising his attacking. It won't take much, it'll be a slight tweak, maybe one signing, but it also won't be instantaneous. That's the thing about change, you can take a sledge hammer to crack a walnut and cause collateral damage, or you can look for gradual incremental improvement.

We will be awful at defending for the next 10 games plus.
Better just accept that and get over it. The changes will be subtle.

25 Sep 2017 18:07:32
Interesting questions for ed002. Can klopp eventually become world class? Also do you consider any manager in the premier league world class right now?

{Ed002's Note - I would personally ignore the concept of "world class" - there are those out there who "rank" managers and if you look at the "world rankings" no doubt Klopp will be there somewhere in the 30s or 40s.

If you look at the latest FIFA awards for coaches the three finalists were Zidane (1), Conte (2) and Allegri (3) with the unranked contenders (the shortlist if you will) - in alphabetical order: Ancelotti, Enrique, Guardiola, Jardim. Loew, Mourinho, Pochettino, Simeone and Tite.

Klopp was in the list five seasons ago when at Dortmund. If he starts winning things then he can get back in to this list.}

25 Sep 2017 18:26:34
a very good post Ron, however that means our goal difference will either be +1 or minus and also the stress levels will go through the roof.

25 Sep 2017 18:55:06
I try not to pay too much attention to those FIFA awards but I would argue that Jardim achieved more than Conte in 2017.
Klopp made the 10 man shortlist in 2016.

25 Sep 2017 18:58:00
I have to say I ageee with eds 2, klopp is a nice guy but his record at Liverpool isn't that great. I don't want him out but at the same time I'm realistic. He's not really cutting the mustard and seems to struggle to learn from his mistakes. Didn't Carlo say we needed to spend loads of money etc and klopp said he could win things with the current squad eds? I want to give him time but he MUST deal with the defence and goal keeper as a matter of urgency or risk losing his job. Fingers crossed he deals with it. Cheers.

{Ed002's Note - Yes that is what CA and JK told the club when discussing the role. But for CA it was not so much an interview as a fishing trip to test the waters.

In simple terms Klopp needs to bring in the expertise to improve the defensive players and get them working as a cohesive unit. Klopp doesn't see that - but the club needs to take matters in to their own hands here and force it. They also need to make provision for moving players on who don't want to be at the club.}

25 Sep 2017 19:17:42
good answer ed. Its good to know your opinion isn't set in stone even though that is what you lead fans to believe regarding klopp. Since managers rank can change on a season basis, as a fan I believe klopp is on his way to being top class with each season and that's enough for fans to believe he is world class. we should really only judge a manager once his reign is over at a club.

At the richer clubs, klopp would have been sacked by now but at liverpool the owners are more patient as they're not expecting instant sucsess. This was always going to be a slow building process for liverpool and for once it seems we have the right manager to do it.

{Ed002's Note - The owners are expecting success - they have thrown enormous amounts of money at a club that is not winning things. Klopp isn't there to screw around for a few years and then move on - he is there to win - as he promised.}

25 Sep 2017 19:28:23
It unbelievable this whilst a no its a banter page and everybody wants to express there views a find it hard to take in that 2 and a half years after he left people are still talking or comparing brendan why?
Rodgers is in the past, so should be forgotting as he never really achieved anything at the club.
Klopp well let's just say ed02 is right he isn't proving to be world class, altho its still early in his career here and things can change! Has he inproved us yes, are we looking more capable of winning trophies since he took over yes, but he certainly is NOT world class. And comparing him with rodgers is just plain daft seen as both have never achieved anything at our great club.
My opinion is I believe klopp can go on to prove himself here but he has already failed in promises he has made to the owners and dealings in transfers.
Now i ain't one for criticising players, managers or owners. So i truly hope in a year or twos time that am coming on here over joyed with what klopp has achieved, but for now am with ed02 while he is a decent manager he has a lot to prove before we can put him in the bracket of world class managers. Only time will tell but please stop this comparing klopp with rodgers.

25 Sep 2017 19:48:52
So what is the criteria for being a world class manager? Is it winning trophies? Neither Guardiola or Pochettino have won anything with their current clubs so I guess they are not world class. Is it making the 10 man FIFA shortlist? Klopp was on that list 12 months ago, so I was he was world class then but not now? Or is it simply something that cannot be measured and it's up to each individual to decide for themselves who is world class and who is not? I'm going for the third option.

25 Sep 2017 20:03:26
See the Manc is back on our page trying tout stirr it up. Where was he last year.

25 Sep 2017 20:18:00
H8utd let it go pal hopfully at end of season we will have the last laugh pal, there's never a truer saying than he who laughs last laughs longest.

25 Sep 2017 20:35:14
Happiness is watching Ed02 taking the center stage ☺️☺️☺️. He blows the good old super aliens back to school days. what a sight 😎😎🤦‍♂️.

25 Sep 2017 22:00:51
PR great post, as Ed2 alluded there are lemmings on here that would happily follow Klopp over a cliff. I would like to ask those deciples whether they will be cursing Klopp and jumping on the bandwagon in 6-12 months time when those of us who can see the obvious are left wondering why it took so long for the owner to figure it out.
Klopp will not deliver what he promised, "titles" after 3 years because he does not learn from his mistakes and will not change or adapt as required.
The fact that Mignolet, Moreno, Klavan and Loveren are still being selected tells you all you need to know, anyone making excuses for those selections is delusio.
Liverpool fans of a certain age cannot have the wool pulled over their eyes simply because we know what world class is, we've seen it in the flesh. It may sound condescending to the younger generation but it's simply experience of what is right and what is not working, I suspect Stand-United may be a similar vintage MU supporter as he tells it how it is and doesn't try to BS, if I'm correct then he will have experienced what we are going through now. Show me a supporter of any club that would take Klopp over Mourinho and I'll show you a supporter who is happy with 1 good performance in every 3 games and a rollercoaster ride over winning titles and trophies year on year. Queue the rose tinted goggle abuse, I don't care, the evidence is clear and not one supporter can honestly say we will contend this season.

25 Sep 2017 22:51:24
Back to PutneyRed's original post.

How did you address the elephant in the room?

Did you say "hello Mr Jumbo"?

25 Sep 2017 22:58:38
Show some respect for your dad mate 🙄.

25 Sep 2017 23:14:44
Nice one Ron
R. E. S. P. E. C. T find out what it means to me 😝.



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