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26 Sep 2017 05:27:00
Would we consider Jamie carrager as defence coach and to instill organization skills.

Agree3 Disagree8

26 Sep 2017 05:59:34
Considering on how he is as a person i think he will fall out with the most players.
Good players are hardly ever great coaches.
I think Carra would be good motivator but he wasn't really the best of defenders. he did put his body on the line when he cocked it up though. but he did cock it up a lot.

26 Sep 2017 07:21:19
Give Klopp more time to get the defence organised.
He's done an amazing job on our attacking, he needs to be given time to get the defending organised.
He's got until the end of next season for me 🤝.

{Ed001's Note - people just expect too much of Klopp, imo. They expect him to wave a magic wand and fix everything immediately. Long term solutions take time to implement, short term fixes can be done quickly, but they never last for long and have to be bodged up repeatedly. Klopp always tries to look to the long term and he should be applauded for that in this day and age.}

26 Sep 2017 08:22:17
post of the day, it really is not easy to take into the isea of how we expected to play, with time all will be better.

26 Sep 2017 08:43:53
Ak, i can only assume you never saw Carragher play mate. Because if you had, you'd know he was probably one of the best centre backs of the Premier League era.

In my opinion, only Rio Ferdinand and Vincent Kompany have been better because they had pace on and off the ball; something Carragher never had. Carragher was a proper hard man of a centre back. As good as the likes of Vidic, Terry, Adams etc all day long.

He scored the odd own goal because he was constantly throwing his body in front of everything, and he got sent off occassionally when his passion got the better of him, but he is the personification of everything we lack right now.

Heart, passion, fight, aggression, leadership, organisation. He is as much a legend as Steven Gerrard for me. Maybe more so as Carragher never tried to leave and retired having never played for anyone but Liverpool.

26 Sep 2017 09:12:44
Ron, it could and probably should be argued then that Klopp has had a lot of time to improve the defense. Although fixing it may be a longer action improving it should have happened at the very least after the numerous windows and over two seasons of coaching.

26 Sep 2017 09:19:14
Sometimes people like Carra, who read the game so intuitively, can struggle to impart their knowledge on others who simply don't have that mental ability to see theme game their way. I don't know if Carra has that knack as a coach, but seems to me he is well enjoying life as a pundit!

26 Sep 2017 09:29:02
Doesn't make him a good defensive coach though Adam.
If we are to get in a defensive coach then you seek out the best available one, not an ex player and certainly not someone who has never coached.
Good players hardly ever make good coaches, it's probably the equivalent of winning the lottery twice, 2 completely different skill sets.

26 Sep 2017 09:38:28
The fact that he didn't take second best and pushed for keita on the understanding it would be signing next year. When he could very well be sacked in November is testament to his great running of this club.

{Ed002's Note - What a ridiculous thing to say.}

26 Sep 2017 09:45:48
Nowhere have i said on this thread, or ever that Carragher would be a good defensive coach. I don't even think he is a good pundit.

He sold out. All his football knowledge and experience, but he'd rather pocket dirty money working for Murdoch, making deliberately ridiculous and controversial statements, prioritising viewing figures over his own credibility.

I hate how ex-players get a fast track to the top of coaching. Carragher and Neville are Slys answer to dumb and dumber. They keep you entertained to distract you away from how dismal their analysis actually is.

Carragher was still a world class defender though. I'll argue that with anyone.

26 Sep 2017 10:12:56
TopBusiness i can sort of see what you mean. I guess your point is that Klopp has thought about the long term interests by agreeing to get Keita on a pre-agreed transfer and wait a year, when he might not be here when Keita signs; than go out and get a quick fix to save his own skin but damage the clubs chances of signing a better player in the future.

However their is a logical fallacy there. Why is a long term option considered better than an instant fix, for example? Would it not be better to try and win the league now, than next year?

The other factor to this is that Keita may well have been our player if Klopp hadn't tapped him up and angered RBL.

I understand your opinion, but there are definitely holes in it. Klopp is doing okay and we are improving as a team. I wouldn't over egg his achievements so far though. Being overly positive just attracts people who are overly negative.

{Ed001's Note - instant fixes are never better MKS, building for the long term is how you sustain success, rather than just have a one off win.}

26 Sep 2017 10:13:01
I like klopp and I'm prepared to give him as much time as he needs but let's be fair he's made 4 signings to bolster our defence and it's no better. Either karius or ward needs to be playing in my opinion this season and if they're not good enough we need a goal keeper who is. But until we address out defence or lack of it a goal keeper is the least of our problems as even de gea would concede goals with our defence. I don't get how our defence is so bad? Is it the system we play? If so it needs tweaking! Otis it our coaching? Something needs to change.

26 Sep 2017 10:58:32
And then keita goes to United, we sign plan b. It doesn't go to plan and we slaughter klopp and the club like we do about every outher target we have missed out on who has been a success.

26 Sep 2017 11:08:32
i have watched enough of carra to say he was never a top class defender. LFC in his heart and soul? yes. passionate? yes. put his body on the line? yes. But top defender in the ranks of ferdinand, vidic, adams hell no. don't have to put a red tint on everything MK.
carra was great for us carried our defense for more than a decade too . Legend for the club. he was weak in air for starters, he read the game well but he was beaten for pace every time. too many last ditch tackles. not very great on the ball couldn't use his left at all. if it weren't for his passion and commitment to the cause and just digging in and putting his body on the line he would have not made it. Kudos to him for making use of what he had and utmost respect for holding our defense for a good decade but calling him the best defender of premier league era is red tinted, i mean LFC themselves had better defenders than him at the club (hyppia) and nowhere near the like of our defensive greats ( hansen, gillispie)

26 Sep 2017 11:27:20
He was great in the air. I'm now getting the impression you're making assumptions, this one based on his height. He was also very good on the ball. So much so that he nearly ended up playing in midfield. It is a myth that he couldn't play football.

There is nothing red tinted about my views on Carragher. He was the mainstay of our defence through out it's years of European success under Rafa. Hyypia was great, but Carragher was better.

Ferdinand is the best centre back i saw in my life time so Carragher obviously won't compare to him. But Vidic and Adams were just the same as Carragher. Warrior type centre backs who could play more than they were given credit for, but lacked a bit in pace so struggled against truly world class strikers like Torres who got Vidic sent off more than once. They were less Rolls Royce, more Land Rover. They always showed up and gave it everything to a very good standard.

We all dream of a team of Carraghers for a reason mate!

26 Sep 2017 11:15:00
I agree Ed. And I'm definitely not saying you are wrong TB. Just putting the other side of the coin out there.

The problem with constantly signing young players to build for the future is that we keep losing them as soon as they get into their prime years. I have to say though, Mane, Salah, Coutinho and Firmino are going to love playing with each other. I hope they all play tonight. They are potentially as good as any other front line in Europe for me. So hopefully that makes them all want to stay!

26 Sep 2017 11:45:22
HAving all the football knowledge in the world doesn't mean you can make some players better, if we gave lovren et al the best training in the world who's to say he won't still lose his head mid game and make odd decision making? Is decision making something you guys think can be improved or is it natural? (Genuinely asking because I don't know if it's something that can be improved a great deal)

26 Sep 2017 12:07:07
Ok i think you are just being hardy here mate. carra was never good in air, and he could never use is left which affected his ball playing ability. i am not questioning his status for LFC or how he was the mainstay of our defense which is a fact, he is a legend, but i won't just give him what he didn't have. He wasnt good in air, and gave away a lot of fouls dealing with aerial balls. of course he didn't make it easy for attackers to win those balls all for his tenacity to just be there and make it as difficlut as possible but he ended up always conceding fouls. he was tenacious and positionaly aware and could judge danger but he has his limitations as i cited.
As you say he wasnt the and for me he wasnt better than hyppia.
legend yes warrior yes, best defender in epl after ferdinand nope.
yes we dream a team of carra's for his commitment and fight and passion, awareness and mental strength, i am not sure we want a team of carra's for his footballing ability.

26 Sep 2017 12:27:30
I'll agree to disagree. I think your views on him may have been altered by how the media portrayed him though. He was one of the best in Europe in his prime, never mind England.

26 Sep 2017 12:39:13
Carraghers performance in the Champions League final from the 45th minute onwards is to this day one of the best performance I have seen.

Gerrard gets the praise for that game but for me it was Carra who won it.

26 Sep 2017 13:13:20
Totally agree with ed01, klopp is trying to build and has a long term vision. That, as a liverpool fan, makes me very happy. Liverpool September has been called "a low" for us and I think that really says a lot about how far the club has come since klopp's arrival. We lost two games and drew two games, something that every team does in a season. It is hardly the end of the world although it was enough for some fans to call for klopp's head! Just goes to show how people's expectations have gone up.

26 Sep 2017 13:53:40
Absolutely agree to the fullest mk. Carra was pure class at cb. I think he was definitely a world class cb in his peak.

I'm not knocking him but it is a funny fact, liverpool were playing spurs once at the lane and carragher had scored more goals for spurs than anyone else on the pitch! I think it just goes to show how he never gave up and always fought to the end. I love the guy.

The only reason Gerrard was going to leave (for chelsea) is because he was being threatened by gangsters and was being intimidated. He didn't want to leave the club he loves but was understandably worried. Apparently he was at a family bbq and his uncle introduced him to this guy (some underworld figure) Gerrard told him his problem and it never happened again. Whoever that guy was, we liverpool fans should be very grateful as we went on to win the European cup.

{Ed001's Note - that is not true Superred91 - he was not in fear of his life if he stayed, he just wanted the move. He was in more fear after deciding he wanted to leave than before. Gerrard wanted to work with Mourinho, he wanted to go and win Premier League titles and he wanted the huge pay raise on offer from Chelsea. It was nothing to do with gangsters or who his missus was knocking off on the side or any of those stories that have gone round. Football was behind the decision.}

26 Sep 2017 14:12:56
I'm sometimes a bit OTT with my judgement of who is world class. Fair enough and it definitely is red tinted glasses, I'm aware of that.

Jamie Carragher WAS world class. No doubt, totally agree with MK.
Sami Hypia was also world class.
Danny Agger was not far behind.

26 Sep 2017 14:44:51
I'm fully behind Klopp and, barring maybe Pochettino, can't think of another manager I'd want at Liverpool. However isn't the defence the first thing most managers would fix. And my memory may not be great but was our defence this bad when he took over? I have seen no improvement in that department in his 2 years. I appreciate many say the right players haven't been there for him and he won't do quick fixes- but what would we call Klavan or the loan of Caulker? My worry is if it's taken this long and the defence is still this bad how much longer is it going to take to identify the correct players, sign them and improve it. How much ground are we going to by to lose and how many other star players will get unsettled and decide to move on to greener pastures?



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