01 Oct 2017 21:08:23
Is Klopp out of touch with the supporters? Two days ago he was quoted in the Echo as saying it is the pundits and journalists who are saying LFC needs a better defence and a striker and tonight after the match he mentioned the pundits again. Does not he know that some supporters share the same opinion?
01 Oct 2017 21:22:36
The pundits are preaching to the choir and are not saying what every man and dog does not know. Ask the pundits if we can sign some one now and crickets is all you will hear. Ask them who can we sign right now. Same thing. They moan about the same things all the time like many on here do as if we can fix it right now which we can't.
Btw, why would Klopp slate his players in public? Who does that, exactly? Mou and Pep have made a career of blaming everything else under the sun for their issues and defend their players till the end by constant deflection. Yet when Klopp does it, people have a phony rage about it.
01 Oct 2017 21:29:55
If he said more overtly that he knows we need new defenders or to sort out the defensive problems would you feel better? I believe they're working on it, although I imagine Square tomatoe may have better insight about that actual defensive work we do!
01 Oct 2017 23:23:16
People need to get off Klopps back, it'll get sorted, it's still very early in the season, it's not over till it's over. Could be worse, least we don't support Everton, imagine that? sorry ed25 lol.
{Ed025's Note - i could not agree more corleone, we are a disgrace mate and our only saving grace is that you are not that much better, i watched the 2 teams today and you are obviously the better team but will end up with the same as us at the end of the season which is nothing, unless we get relegated of course which im not ruling out altogether my friend..
01 Oct 2017 23:39:28
I doubt you'll get relagated mate lol, you'll get sorted out should Koeman go which I think is imminent, it really wouldn't surprise me if he's gone in the next few weeks. You actually have a decent team, signed some decent players, it's just getting it right mate. I totally agree, we'll get nothing out of this season, same old.
{Ed025's Note - we are mersey sh**e corleone, its hard to take when you were brought up in an era when we ruled the domestic football world mate..
01 Oct 2017 23:46:20
Last year we were flying out of the blocks with a weaker squad and the internatinal break really stalled our momentum,
Jose is on about this break coming at the wrong time for them as maybe the same will happen to them.,
I never thought I'd look forward to the Int. break but I think it'll give them all a bit of a change of scene,
They HOPEFULLY will all come back fit, and have another go,
We know the qual ity is there.
02 Oct 2017 00:19:37
Remember your preseason comments that I said I'd save for a rainy day Ed025? Well, as it's not too bright on our side of the park at the moment, today's not that rainy day, but it's coming 😀.
{Ed025's Note - we all start the season with such high hopes burkey, truth is that both of us are being let down by our under achieving teams but liverpool have a lot less to moan about than us mate thats for sure..
02 Oct 2017 07:01:08
We are in serious mess compared to Everton! They have not been on a spending spree form decades while we have been spending money from how many years now! Everton atleast has that excuse to make! £40 mill on AOC and don’t know where and when to play the lad! Joke!
{Ed025's Note - you have a few players not firing harry, we have a whole team mate..
02 Oct 2017 07:39:08
WCD, mate, do you proof read your posts before sending lol - kidding!
We also had a good defense with Hyypia/ Henchoz/ Carragher and a decent keeper mostly with Reina.
In my opinion, the full backs are pushed too far forward.
How many goals do they create being so advanced?
Does it outweigh their responsibilities to defend or offer cover in defense in a counter attack?!
It seems in Klopp's style it does.
Away from home, they (full backs) should sit back in my opinion as Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can etc don't have a clue where to be positioned at times and we have enough attack minded players in forward positions.
Lets take yesterday's goal for Newcastle for example; Matip and Lovren were caught doing the same thing and too wide from each other, if Gomez was near Matip as he would be in my idea of a line up, he might well have had a chance of covering the mistake with his speed, getting back and stealing away the chance from the attacker.
To look at it another way, Matip and Lovren might not have been so far apart if they had full back cover to their sides meaning one of them could have blocked the runner and maybe it would have been an intercepted pass or a foul to block the run, who knows?!
Our defence is set up completely wrong in my opinion.
Again I have to ask; are our full backs attacking responsibilities outweighing their defensive responsibilities?
In Klopp's tactics, it would seem so and I am annoyed at that personally.
A full back should be a supplement to an attack when the right moment presents itself, not as it appears currently (to be one of the main sources) .
The full backs can't seem to time/ pick their opportunities to get forward very well either.
Do they even get many assists?
Hope all that makes sense.
02 Oct 2017 08:06:01
Olrish
That’s another myth that has fooled people on the site mate. Those CB’s you mention would fail terribly in the current system! Diego Godin is the considered as the God accoring to people. Now ask Ed01 would he buy him for any price! He will say NO thank you, Coz his team sit deep and counter while at Liverpool we don’t!
Play Nesta, Maldini and Bresi in this system and they will still concede goals!
We did not had a world class defenders under Rafa! We had a World class midfiled instead and that crumbled when we sold Alonso keeping the rest at the club!
Check Bayern Munich this season! They dominate literally every game yet concede stupid goals! You know who they miss? Alonso! They have world class quality all over the pitch except the man who was the pinnacle of their team last season!
When Jonjo Shelvey splits your entire backline and midfiled with one pass you got to understand we have literally NO SHAPE IN the team! And as long as you have no Shape and discipline you cannot play Organized football and would always look like headless chicken running and chasing a car! Football players should move like your fingers on keayboard! Together every time else you leave space for someone to exploit! We have not learned that ART under Klopp!
{Ed001's Note - what are you talking about? Why do you keep dragging me into your senseless rants? Shelvey splitting the entire backline with one pass is nothing to do with shape, it is to do with his one quality is the way he can hit the ball, either a pass or shot, with precision. That is what he does, whether the midfield has shape or not is irrelevant.
What is relevant is that the defence made a basic error. Centre backs too far apart and not looking around them, both should have dropped off the moment the ball was at Shelvey's feet with time and space. Amateur stuff that they should know from schooldays, not need to be taught now. Though it doesn't help when the keeper, who the apologists keep telling me is a good shotstopper, is unable to stop a deflection dribbling past him as he has the reaction speed of a petrified squirrel and just watches it trickle past him.
The midfield were terrible yesterday, but that goal was down to shambolic defending by the (so-called) defenders and a hapless keeper behind them. Unless we get rid of them, we are going nowhere.}
02 Oct 2017 08:40:26
I saw the same thing, Ed on the goal. The gap btw Matip and Lovren was criminal. They were simply ball watching or should I say, match-watching cos neither had any idea where Joselu was. Had they been more aware, they would have as you said, dropped deep and covered Joselu as soon as Shelvey looked up for the pass as we all knew it was coming and there would be no danger. This is why Klopp wants all the CB's gone cos they make mistakes Boozers' league players don't even make.
To make matters worse, Matip tracked back (I know, should never have been in that position to start with) and caught up with Joselu, made the tackle which shows how relentlessly slow Joselu is and Migs just watched the ball go past him. He should have anticipated Matip's tackle and gotten ready to pounce on the direction of the ricochet. Same old crap, different day.
As for the whole "Alonso" this or that or "We had a world class midfield" or not, rewriting history seems to be a specialty amongst many on here as they think we were all asleep during that time so I'll let them continue doing that.
02 Oct 2017 09:33:05
This is what I was trying to say and did say in my post above (the two CBs were too wide from one another and doing the same thing) - same goal was pretty much scored vs Man City for their first goal if you remember.
My question is; could a Gomez or TAA have saved the day if employed as regular FBs in an away/ more defensive formation (sitting deeper)?
I think so personally.
They're there primarily in my eyes to assist the CBs if and when needed.
That's what I was always taught in youth football - CBs mess up and FBs cover and help them out.
Is it even required that they get so far forward?
They have created 2 goals this season if memory serves - that's good sure, but if they stayed back, could they have stopped a couple?
I certainly think so.
How many times do we have to concede the same goal over and over before we learn?
Come to think of it, Man City's 3rd goal was very similar too.
The middle of the defence has a gaping hole because the full backs are gone and the CBs stay out far too wide.
Shouldn't one attack the incoming ball and one cover if playing that system?
They never seem to do though.
Alonso wouldn't have stopped that yesterday.
{Ed001's Note - spot on IK. The modern day way of playing is to forget about defending it seems. I do not see why both full backs advance at once, especially in a team with wingers. They get in the way as much as they help, imo.}
02 Oct 2017 09:42:54
By the way, I'm one of Mignolet's biggest critics when deserved.
I can't blame him for that goal yesterday though - he came out to narrow the angle rightly and was too close in my opinion to react on time to a clearance that turned into a ricochet to fly very wide of him from close range.
It was a very lucky ricochet and not his fault from what I saw.
Matip was asleep to let the only Newcastle man go and so was Lovren - they're constantly too wide from each other.
This has happened so many times over the last few years, it cannot be a coincidence anymore.
Aguero, Jesus, Joselu this season alone off the top of my head.
The centre of our defence is literally a joke.
Partially down to the players themselves but made worse in my opinion by over committing the full backs into overly attacking positions - does the end justify the means? No, in my opinion!
{Ed001's Note - I disagree, the ball moved slowly enough it gave him time to react, Mignolet should have stopped that. I would expect Clemence to be able to save that now, he may be getting on but he would have at least thrown out a hand at a ball moving slower than my nan on her zimmer.}
02 Oct 2017 09:49:07
Full backs will continue to press high as that is what he wants. By picking Moreno and TAA he is not expecting anything else. If he wanted defenders he would have purchased one. Sessengon and Mendy does the same
Job as Moreno or Marcelo! Klopp likes offensive full backs! If it was all about defending then milner would be playing ahead of Moreno! Full backs charge up and CB splits which create a gap where your deep sitting midfielder sit and picks the players or sweep the danger!
Alonso would have anticipated Shelvey’s pass Without a doubt!
02 Oct 2017 09:55:32
I understand your position on it.
I would agree except in my opinion, he was committed or his weight was mostly to his right hand side it seemed (I'd have to look at the goal again to say for certain - YT only has awful quality replays of it) .
How would you expect him to react to a very close range ricochet though that went the opposite way to the way that the striker was shaping to shoot?
Do you think he should have not come out so far?
Not being a smart a$$, just trying to get another perspective.
I need to see the goal again on a hd clip to be sure myself but initially I fully blame Matip and Klopp's system for two reasons mentioned above.
02 Oct 2017 10:05:54
He might have anticipated it and covered it WCD but all Shelvey would have had to do was clip it over him or around him or passed to a team mate who could hit the same pass - Alonso cannot stop that alone.
He was a top midfielder, absolutely no doubt and I feel honoured to have seen him in the flesh - never seen a man work as hard for us along with Mo Sissoko believe it or not, they were like machines.
The full back thing, this is really beginning to bother me now.
It's just no coincidence that we're conceding the same goals time and time again.
Slide-rule ball through the middle of the defence to the gaping hole.
If a slow player like Joselu can capitalise on this system error, we have a serious, serious problem and hope that this is addressed now.
If not, then Klopp might as well sign off now.
02 Oct 2017 10:46:59
The system won’t be changed and we are not trained to play any other way! We got to scrap till January and buy players to to fit in our system! Klopp is at complete fault for the mess we are in either sticking with average dross or playing a system that exposes the average dross!
If he wants his both full backs to press at the same time providing solid outlets then he need to play a specialist stopper in the middle. Xabi would do that job and more!
02 Oct 2017 10:45:04
His system is perfectly fine if you have players to play that way else it is always asking for trouble! Tiki taka with Lukaku wouldn’t look good and that how it is! You need players to play any kind of system and right players means most accurate results!
Clipping over the midfiled is not a new thing and you have CB to deal with the first ball. Ie is head the ball we don’t do it. Alonso / Masch would take care of the second ball that is the ball bouncing off from the head. Our midfielders are never positioned enough to win that ball either.
Yo don’t need to go far around to look for this system! Spurs have full backs who play very high providing solid outlets. Poch plays 3 CB’s as well a Holding mid to sweep the danger.
02 Oct 2017 15:19:13
To be honest, I love the 3 CB systems, but we don't have the personnel to use it.
If we did, I'd 100 percent take Henderson out for the extra CB and retain TAA and Moreno as wing backs.
Play Can and Keita in there next season if Can stays.
Grujic and Lallana as back ups.
I think Grujic is better than Henderson right now.
The only reason he's in the team imo is because he's club captain and English - it's certainly not for his form or quality and anyone who thinks he's a great or even good player needs to watch more football.
03 Oct 2017 15:09:08
Klopp will not slate his players in public. He has too much class to do that.
Best quote I ever heard from a manager was Mick Mcararthy, I think it was his Sunderland team that he was talking about. He said to the pundit " I'm not questioning their commitment, I'm questioning their ability" it was so funny at the time. After their dismal performances there was not much more he could say.
We are missing adam lallana. The Spanish speaking players, pass to each other a lot and have their own little group. Henderson lallana, Milner and sturridge are the English group and only henderson is starting regularly. Him and lallana are devastating together. The sort of player who can create something against a stubborn defence like Newcastle of Burnley.