Liverpool banter 217429

 

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07 Nov 2017 12:09:49
So Liverpool have only allowed 86 shots against them this season, one of the best figures, but have conceded from nearly 20% of them, the worst in the league. Anyone still think our defence is ok? (Figures from Optima via BBC) .

Agree0 Disagree9

07 Nov 2017 12:24:00
These numbers say the defense in not the problem though don't they?
They obviously say our keeper can't stop the shots despite being a good ''shot stopper''

As posted earlier on the site, Mignolet has one of the worst shots to goals ratio in any of Europe top 5 league.

07 Nov 2017 12:50:32
It also means IMO.

1) we have been playing a system that doesn’t give away much possession or chances. esp more scared and defensive sides like Huddersfield, Maribor and Man Utd ;)
2) however we also expose our defenders by playing a high line and aggressive system, so when we give away possession, they’re typically high percentage chances

Having said that I would agree it would help if we had a keeper that can save more than the run of the mill. We’ve also adapted our system recently to be a bit more balanced of late, hopefully the new system continues to improve these stats.

07 Nov 2017 13:03:13
Well put SGRed!

07 Nov 2017 13:27:39
This is the classic thing about interpreting stats. I wouldn't conclude from this that the stats reflect badly on the keeper but that the chances we give away are so easy that the keeper doesn't have a chance. To me these stats defend the keeper not the other way round.

{Ed001's Note - if that was true then the team would give up lots of shots. Teams which give up lots of easy shots are unable to stop difficult shots. You make no sense with your bizarre conclusion.}

07 Nov 2017 13:55:40
Just to clarify - by ‘defence’ I meant the whole lot of them and the system. But I have to add. Oh for a world class goalie!

07 Nov 2017 14:06:34
look, the defence has conceded, what is it? 2 goals at home? all season. That is very impressive. I know our away form is very different but it think that fact tells us the boys CAN defend.

Like I've said, We have had our blip, it wasn't so bad, I Still think we can win this league.

07 Nov 2017 14:14:55
Screw the stats. Mignolet is a terrible keeper, Matip is lazy, Lovren is error prone, Klavan is slow, Gomez lacks experience, Moreno is being told to attack high up the pitch, and Henderson is not a defensive midfielder.

I have no stats to back any of that up, but i think it's clear just from watching why we concede too many goals. No need to complicate it.

07 Nov 2017 14:43:56
That means you need another 6 players in the summer MK? 😆😆😆.

07 Nov 2017 14:56:50
Exactly MK, that's how I look at things as well mate.

07 Nov 2017 15:10:52
Why Harry?
1. Gomez is only inexperienced so by sticking with him he'll iron out his mistakes, and he should move to centre back next year.
2. Moreno is playing high up, but that is just the system so a new player won't change anything.
3. We already have 2 players at the club to replace Mignolet.

So that just leaves a new defensive midfielder, a new centre back and a new right back. 3 new players out of the entire starting XI. Job done. You don't have to make wholesales changes to improve something.

07 Nov 2017 15:29:18
There’s some nugget or more of truth in all those comments MK but very harsh to take it that far on individual players. I do think 95% of players have their weaknesses and an important element is to set the team up to prevent those being exposed. for example

- if you have Klavan in your side, play to protect that weakness against pace, not expose it. He’s played very well in last three games mostly because we’ve had plenty of cover for him in a back 3 so he’s less isolated one on one, plus he’s played very well against mostly more physical players so makes perfect sense for him to start against Huddersfield or Maribor. he’s brave and physical
- likewise we also look much better playing a semi-back 3 when moreno is licensed to maraud forward, leaving us less exposed to the counterattack
- we can use Gomez very effectively to provide some pace in the backline too, and to cover Matip who seems to struggle when turned around
- Hendo is very effective in a gengen-press system when we have Gini/ Lallana ahead of him. Those three are extremely effective together, but put in Can or Milner and sides play through them far easier and we’re then better off playing Can at CDM IMO and playing Hendo further forward IMO

I’m not saying we have the best defence by any stretch - we’re way behind the likes of Tottenham, but I do think we can help ourselves a bit more by boxing clever as we’ve seen from the last 3 games.

07 Nov 2017 18:21:07
Mistakes. I don't complain when we concede a goal from normal play, it's when Lovren completely misses the ball and gifts the other team a Goal is when I'm annoyed.
The entire defence and keeper is terrible and we won't win a single thing with them.

07 Nov 2017 19:23:31
Ed, I'll take that as a request to elaborate 😉

We've been through this before, a year ago we were in the same situation, we were conceding a disproportionate number of goals to shots. It didn't matter if Migs or Karius was in goal the result was the same.

Unless Karius and Migs were equally awful keepers these stats didn't make sense. Was there an alternative logical explanation? It comes from Klopp's style and how high we play up the pitch, essentially the ball spends most of the time in the opponent's half, this naturally restricts the number of shots we concede.

However, when our press is defeated our team is upfield and our defenders are isolated. This means that the chances we do concede are relatively easy.

This explains both why we concede so few shots and why we concede a disproportionate number of goals to shots. Hence my conclusion that these stats are actually a defence of the keeper not the opposite. Migs had a harder job than most keepers.

{Ed001's Note - how can you even bring Karius into this when he has had just 16 games in that period. 6 of those were clean sheets, which means either he made saves or you are suggesting he had nothing to do in those 6 games. Saying that he had nothing to do, which he must have had judging by your decision that we were conceding a disproportionate number of goals to shots and that means you are basing a statistical analysis on just 10 games. Sorry but that is impossible to do, any analyst who has a clue will tell you that the number is too low to draw any meaningful conclusion from that.

For starters it does not rule out anomalies like the first few games being while he recovered his confidence after a broken hand. Suggesting he is equally as bad as Migs is just nonsense and shows a lack of understanding of how to use stats.

Not that I should be surprised as the whole thread is based on nonsense stats that are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether the keepers have let in shots they should have saved. Migs does that repeatedly, he has let in shots I would have backed myself to save, let alone a Premier League keeper. Has Karius done so? I have yet to see him do so.

The only thing the stats tell us is that Mignolet is not good enough, as a good keeper will save even some 'easy' shots, whereas he has been guilty of letting in the first shot he has faced on more occasions than any other keeper in the league. Karius has never even come close to comparing to that.

Also, your reading of the stats is deficient as you failed to notice that we dropped the press for the second half of last season and barely used it. So how can a high press be at fault for Mignolet being useless?}

07 Nov 2017 23:04:46
I defend Migs not because I think he's a great keeper but because I think this site has gone overboard in its criticism of him recently and a lot of fan frustration is being unloaded on him because he's a safe target. In a month or two it will be someone else who's singled out and then I'll defend them, it's just my way.

07 Nov 2017 20:52:05
Ed001 Its interesting that Migs was a much better gk in the second half of last season. I initially thought it was due to the affects of the improved training sessions. However considering his drop off in performance this year as we switched back to the high press Im really starting to think it must be a mental thing with Migs. Could he perform better when he isn't isolated because he is more confident that if he makes a mistake then someone will be thereto cleanup (or maybe he isn't so aware of the spotlight)? I suspect his biggest weakness is his fear of making mistakes. Much of his issues with coming for the ball seem to be related to him second guessing himself. Defenders want decisive gks - doesn't matter if the decision is wrong but they need to know what he is going to do.

{Ed001's Note - we haven't switched back to the high press.}

08 Nov 2017 03:49:44
I love your loyalty Putney, reminds me of something I would say. Ed seems to know a bit about analysis and it sounds right that only ten games can not give you an accurate result. If you took the ten games at the beginning of last season then people would predict that we were going to win the league.

We can all see that migs is poor. We do play high press a lot and Matip is too lazy to race back. I don't actually think he can run full pelt. Klavan has been decent recently but he may come undone against Chelsea.

Mignolet

Matip and

Klavan/ Lovren

They are the central unit of our defence. The big boys. they are not names to put the fear of death into attackers. A club like Liverpool should have Better CBs than that. I would go with Gomes and Lovren when he is fit but I really hope we sign a big name in January.

That goofy lad "Pope" has been pretty impressive for the Burn. What do you guys think of him (Apart from the fact that he sucked his thumb until he was 14)

I believe that we have two top class keepers at the club but we are playing the worst one week in week out. the only thing that makes sense is that migs is really good in training? better than the others?







 

 

 
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