Liverpool banter 217499


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13 Nov 2017 18:51:36
So Tony Barrett has set up a petition to get rid of Michael Owen as club ambassador. To be fair I think Owen has an incurable disease called foot in mouth disease.

Agree16 Disagree0

13 Nov 2017 19:28:57
He set up the petition in May after Owen referred to Man U as "we" whilst commentating on the Europa League Final.

Leaving Mr. Owen aside, I've always had a problem with employees of a football club doubling as commentators and pundits. You're either one or the other, like.

13 Nov 2017 22:59:32
Totally agree, something. How can Gerrard offer an opinion on a Liverpool loss, he’s an employee for crying out loud, can hardly come and and say Klopp got things totally wrong today etc.

14 Nov 2017 00:45:02
I always believe when gerrard used to do punditry on champions league matches because he was injured and couldn't play was a disgrace.

14 Nov 2017 08:38:58
Agree Woolback. Love him or hate him, but John Terry would've been in the dressing room on crutches barking out orders.

Gerrard was never a proper captain though. He was lucky to have so many leaders in the team with him like Carragher, Hyypia, Reina, Agger, Mascherano, Suarez etc. Gerrard just led by example and inspired people with his ability.

I don't think leadership came naturally too him at all. Remember when he tried a huddle "we do not let this slip"? It was cringeworthy and looked put on.

If he was a genuine leader he wouldn't have been doing punditry on our matches. I remember after the Besiktas game, Gerrard was lambasting Henderson for giving Balotelli the ball at a penalty. I was sat in the Kop that game and I'm convinced that the reason Hendo left it for Balotelli was because the whole stand erupted with "let Mario take it". Gerrard perhaps would've known that if he'd been pitch side instead of sipping Champagne in the studio 😕.

14 Nov 2017 10:32:50
Never a proper captain. could not disagree more. Just because he wasn't a loud mouthed thug like Terry? captains come in all shapes and sizes, leading my example is a very commendable attribute in itself.

14 Nov 2017 11:05:49
Stuie, he was inspirational on the pitch, and could win games single handedly but that is not what a captain should be in my opinion. A captain should be a leader on and off the pitch. Not getting embroiled in court cases every few years.

A captain should be the one managing players mid-game, putting his arm around young players, talking to team mates etc. Gerrard played his own game and ignored everything behind him. World class player. Bang average captain.

That is just my opinion though, i can see why people would disagree. I just think Carragher was a better leader than Gerrard by a mile. Gerrard always seemed too arrogant. I have been massively impressed by his attitude since retiring though. Not many household names are happy to go and coach u18's. Giggs for example seems to think he deserves a top job right from the off! It suggests Gerrard has humbled with age.

14 Nov 2017 11:40:25
I get what you're saying, Carragher and Gerrad worked so well together on the pitch as Carragher was vocal leader, giving players a bollocking if needed, whereas Gerrard led by sheer determination and example. But to say he was an average captain is i think a massive disrespect to the man. There has been many examples of young players saying how involved Gerrard was in their careers.

14 Nov 2017 12:11:21
I've read a lot of people say he was their idol, but i never heard any stories about him helping out the young players in the team. Not like you hear about Lucas, Ings and Sturridge.

I don't mean it disrespectfully. I loved Gerrard. I am brutally honest with my opinions though and i just don't get why he was captain. He is probably the 3rd best player to play for Liverpool in my lifetime though so i have utmost respect ability wise and his passion was undeniable. It rubbed off on others, hence how he led by example.

In games where we needed a calm head though and concentration, Gerrard was a muppet. He'd either shoot repetitively from range, start flying into tackles, start attempting the Hollywood pass every time etc. He lacked composure when it was needed.

In 2014 when he slipped, we were still in that game. There was 45 minutes for us to get a goal which would've been enough (a draw there and we win the league) . Gerrard decided he wanted to be the one to get the goal though and must've had at least 5 long range shots in the second half. He clearly blamed himself. Without Carragher there was nobody to calm him down. If he'd just kept his head and continued to play the way we could, we'd have had a much better chance.

In 2005 he got taken out of midfield because he was running about like a headless James Milner. Hamann stepped in with a bit of composure at half time, which allowed Gerrard to go and attack without any responsibilities, and that changed the game.

When it came down to crucial moments Gerrard panicked and tried too much. It's hard to get angry at him for it because he just really cared. In 2006 when he scored that last minute belter to make it 3-3, it was amazing. He won that final for us because everything came off. His Hollywood assist for Cisse, both his volleyed goals, and his penalty in the shoot out. When it went right, it was an absolute priviledge to watch. If that last minute equaliser had gone wide it would've made him look like a fool.

That right there epitomises Gerrard's biggest problem, but also his biggest strength. He didn't think about anything. He just did exactly what he wanted to do in the moment. The problem with that kind of genius is that it either works and you are a hero, or it doesn't and you're a passenger.

I just prefer a captain to be more consistent, more composed and willing to put their own performance second to ensure they get the best from those around them. Gerrard was a flair player. Impossible to predict because he didn't even know what he was going to do next.

You are spot on though, the contrasting styles of leadership from him and Carragher complemented the team so well at times. If Carragher had been on the pitch against Chelsea in 2014, they'd probably both have celebrated a league title.

In hindsight it is perhaps unfair to say he wasn't a proper captain. That is subjective and i misrepresented it as a fact. What i should've said is he is not my idea of a captain. Respect your views though stuie. You're one of my favourite posters on here generally so please don't take anything in this debate personally ☺.

14 Nov 2017 13:04:24
Always wondered, was stevie supposed to take the pen vs Milan in the game or was alonso always the peno taker?

14 Nov 2017 13:44:04
Yeah i do understand what you mean, though i like to think of his displays as him grabbing the whole team by the scruff of the neck, realising nothing was going to get done unless he did something himself, which to be fair, was usually the case! I agree that when Carragher retired Gerrard lost a massive part of his game and maybe things would have been different if he was still there in '14. I guess it is also difficult to analyse his time as Captain because he was captain for so long and his position was never threatened.

14 Nov 2017 14:29:59
If you study any form of leadership though, it will always come back to delegation. Taking on everything yourself is not the mark of a good leader, it is the mark of a good individual. Good leaders accept that they cannot do it alone and spread the work load. For all Gerrard's abilities, he only won one major trophy in his entire career and scored less goals than the far less talented Frank Lampard.

He under achieved. Mainly because his team mates were mostly not at his level, but in large part because he sometimes tried so hard to do it himself that it was detrimental to the team. With Carragher alongside him, he seemed a far better player. As soon as Carra was not a regular (2010-) Gerrard looked half the player. He was basically just a passenger from open play but his world class technique meant he still hit double figures in goals and assists mainly from set pieces until he retired.

A real shame, because i think if he'd had better team mates, he might have trusted them more with the ball and it would've made us less predictable. He also looked far better alongside Torres, Alonso and Suarez than he did without them. I think he recognised that they were all also at his level and it made him a better player to play with people he could trust with the ball.

Taking on everything yourself though is never the way to achieve success. You have to put trust in others; even if you think you could do something better yourself. Nobody can do everything alone.

14 Nov 2017 15:36:45
I think you answered that yourself though, we never consistently had a great squad. Yes we have had very good teams, notably with Alonso etc, but that was always just a great spine. Lampard had the luxury of playing within a world class squad. If Gerrard didn't have that determination to it on his own, i personally believe we would have lost a lot more than we would have won.



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