Liverpool Rumours Member Posts

ricedog's Profile

Current Avatar:
No Avatar image uploaded

ricedog's Posts and Other Poster's Replies To ricedog's Posts

ricedog has no Rumours Posts

ricedog's banter posts with other poster's replies to ricedog's banter posts

30 Apr 2018 12:01:56
Morning all,

I wouldn't mind addressing SG potentially getting the Rangers post, and it perhaps being a stepping stone towards Liverpool, or even people asking for him to be assistant now to JK. Manage expectations please. emotionally i know a lot would enjoy this, but the amount of world class players who went on to become excellent managers is practically zero. You need a totally different set of skills, let alone to be actually any good. and we have no evidence to prove it. i roll my eyes every time i hear people even mention him for the job. it makes literally no sense to me. Not knocking him, and i really do hope he has a successful career, but appointing someone on the fact that they have emotional credit in the bank and could kick a ball is a nightmare scenario. I even have my doubts re Zidane as the main attributes Real needed was a strong personality who was respected by a bunch of overpaid egos. He has done a good job yes, but with that playing staff and infrastructre it would be tough not to.

1.) 30 Apr 2018 12:30:10
Agree that we all need to calm down, and that top players are unlikely to make top coaches. However there have been quite a few:

Kenny Dalglish
Alex Ferguson
Brian Clough
Pep Guardiola
Zinedine Zidane

Iâ€™m sure thereâ€™s many more. You could argue the various merits of each of them, but they have had successful playing careers for both club and country, as well as managed teams to League and/ or Champions League triumphs.

2.) 30 Apr 2018 12:51:35
On the last two is it really that hard when your first clubs are Real Madrid and Barcelona
I would love to see Pep at a club where he has average money and has to find players and coach them not just buy them in
With Zidane I think he is a very lucky boy as he has Ronaldo to turn to when things go wrong.

3.) 30 Apr 2018 13:00:49
Exactly johncrow, spot on mate.

4.) 30 Apr 2018 13:08:39
Zed. fair point but i agree with Johncrow. i think the list of failed managers who were great players is infinitely longer. Especially in todays environment where players are modicodled. being able to identify problems and actually fix them are worlds apart. (Shearer, Neville, Keane, Bruce, Sheringham, Adams etc etc etc) While you could maybe argue some players have gone onto decent managerial careers, they are exactly that, decent. not what we should be looking. I could be wrong of course with SG, but my money would not be on him, just as i wouldn't bet the house on Giggs at the moment either. In my chosen sport (rugby) a lot of the best head coaches down the years have actually had teaching experience in their early days, and literally all started at grass roots level at some stage for a number of years. I think this is invaluable in being able to manage people, which in my opinion is one of the most underrated qualities. All the great managers have had this, and being 38 and never having had to manage (captain is not managing) is a tough ask of anyone. Long term i think it is a tough one to sustain unless you are truely gifted.

5.) 30 Apr 2018 13:08:44
I take your point Johncrow, but they can only work with what they have.

If Iâ€™m playing devils advocate, you could argue the same about King Kenny. He took over the champions of Europe who were the best team around. Then at Blackburn he had the biggest cheque book. At Newcastle and Celtic, without as much money, he didnâ€™t succeed.

Iâ€™m not in any way denigrating his achievements, but itâ€™s difficult not to tar him with the same brush as Pep and Zizou?

6.) 30 Apr 2018 13:23:13
Dont think Fergie was a top player!

7.) 30 Apr 2018 13:27:29
As an additional point, Iâ€™m sceptical that Stevie will make a top manager anyway. In what I have read about him, he seems a bit too â€˜selfâ€™ obsessed to put the needs of the team above his own needs. I hope to be proved wrong, but I do think, that out of that team, Xabi has most attributes to make a top manager.

Just my view ðŸ˜€.

8.) 30 Apr 2018 13:27:30
It's the state of modern game now. A bad season and your gone. In the past when the like of Kenny and Fergie where around they would have time to build there teams. There's little of that now.

It's a big gamble going into management. Don't blame them tho football is all they know after retiring from playing.

9.) 30 Apr 2018 13:46:38
Fergie scored 171 goals in around 300 odd matches in Scotland, and was a record breaking transfer to Rangers at the time, as well as scoring 9 in 7 Scotland matches.

Didnâ€™t win the World Cup, but was certainly a good later in Scotland in an era when few players played outside of their leagues. Iâ€™d say he was the Jermaine Defoe of his day!

10.) 30 Apr 2018 13:58:14
*player not later ðŸ˜‚.

11.) 30 Apr 2018 14:50:00
Fergie never played for Scotland Zed. Had a decent career as a player but was never seen as a great player up here. I know plenty older Dunfermline and Rangers fans who seen him play. Although he served his time properly as a manager.

12.) 30 Apr 2018 15:37:04
Fair enough Liddelland. Got his Scotland career from his Wiki page (epic fail! ) but upon closer inspection, he went on a tour of Asia and Oceania with what looks like a development squad in 1967, scored a load, but never made the Scotland team proper!

So maybe not quite Jermain Defoe then.

13.) 30 Apr 2018 17:33:08
There's quite a few really.

Those mentioned above,
Simeone,
Conte,
Pochettino,
Riijkard,
Mancini,
Fabio Capello,
Beckenbauer,
Cruyff
Ancelotti,
Deschamps,
Bobby Robson,

And with the world cup just around the corner, an honourable mention to *cough* Gareth Southgate.

14.) 30 Apr 2018 17:39:40
Lol Zed, never trust Wiki mate, it's full of made up garbage the majority of the time. There's so many websites out there who do articles and just copy stuff from Wiki, change a few words and publish it which is frustrating because the info is so incorrect so many times. This is why I love Ed1 and MK's articles, they know what they're talking about and don't need to copy useless info from elsewhere. Sorry for going on and off topic, I just can't stand wiki.

15.) 30 Apr 2018 18:07:04
That Rangers job to me, is a train wreck and I don't think he should take it. Why? There so many pitfalls with level of expectations, emotion and excitement, all of which are not good for a young manager getting his feet wet in the top level. It's too early for him and he needs to wait for the right one while still undergoing his apprenticeship with the kids. Just my opinion.

16.) 30 Apr 2018 19:04:39
The only way to prove oneself as being a very very good manager in Scotland is to take on a team outside of the big two. Aberdeen or Hibs etc. (even though Aberdeen are above Rangers) .

Look at Rodgers. He's winning everything he's expected to win, yet I've still no more respect for him as a manager as when he managed us.

17.) 30 Apr 2018 20:25:02
Spot on, Epic. BR took a cushy job, winning the games and stuff he is expected to win. I would not have had an issue with his choice if he wasn't still being a self promoting bloke in his media interviews, always fishing for compliments and patting himself on the back for being a loser having bottled the PL or saying English managers don't get given enough time, as if 3 years was not enough time for him. In fact, What has he done in the CL and the EL? NOTHING. Why? Cos he can't hack it outside of Scotland in tournaments he is not expected to do well in. Like you Epic, he can win a thousand paper trophies in Scotland, he will NEVER get my respect until he gets it done where the big boys do it.

02 Feb 2018 10:30:13
Hi Eds,

Is there any material update re the Firmino.

Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - It is on going, they are duty bound to complete a thorough investigation.}

1.) 02 Feb 2018 11:29:17
The only update you need from Firmino is whether he is fit or not for the next game.

2.) 02 Feb 2018 11:35:21
Taking a while isnâ€™t it. You wouldnâ€™t have thought it would be that difficult to interview the small group of players, ref and look at the video footage.

{Ed002's Note - It takes whatever amount of time is necessary to conduct a thorough investigation and make a decision about what to do.}

3.) 02 Feb 2018 12:17:37
Iâ€™d rather they do it properly than quickly so that heâ€™s fully exonerated (expected) or properly punished (unlikely) .

4.) 02 Feb 2018 19:32:13
Does need a thorough investigation to ensure no questions can be asked afterward, however I agree it does seem to be taking a long time considering there were relatively few people involved in incident and the protagonists are all based in the same city (save for the official who must surely be easily contactable) .
As a side note, and it is a side note not some sort of distraction technique, I still canâ€™t believe Holgate wasnâ€™t punished for that push. Should have been dealt with whilst the other investigation was conducted.

{Ed002's Note - Certainly it was a booking. The rest I have answered.}

17 Aug 2017 07:32:32
Hi Eds

Always appreciate the insight, so thanks for that. In general terms, how is our coaching staff rated? Is this an area Klopp should be looking at?

Thanks as aways.

{Ed001's Note - I am not sure how I can possibly answer that first question. I don't know of any rating system out there for coaching staff. Maybe it is something EA Sports should look at including in the next version of FIFA? Kids seem to get very excited about the numbers on that games.

Klopp should be always looking for improvements, but we clearly need someone who can notice problems mid-game and come up with solutions. Also someone to teach players how to think for themselves. Though the latter is probably something all the coaching staff of every club in the world needs to address right now. The players are losing their individuality. I would also like to see someone come in and address the defensive issues, though a lot of that comes under the last point anyway. However a set piece coaching specialist is something that should be looked into.}

1.) 17 Aug 2017 08:54:46
Cheers for that eds. I know it is rather subjective, so not necessarily easy to answer as so many variables have to be included. I always felt the balance of a coaching staff is sensitive and needs to be addressed differently to what i often notice. Players will be drawn to different type of coaches/ personalities and will perform better given different motivations which include their relationships with staff. It is impossible to ask 1 person to fulfil this role. Hence having a diverse staff rather than a bunch of yes men willing to placate the manager, and of course a manager strong enough not to feel threatened by this. So i suppose my question was along those lines, if our staff are A: knowledgable and experienced enough B: implement successfully through communicating their ideas properly C: have empathy (which i think is as important as the actual coaching, as understanding a player and how they operate is fundamental and sadly highly lacking at times across sports) .

On your point, it is definitely a trend in sports in general that players cannot adapt to situations in front of them. I think a by product of their training from young and the expectation of easy success (from the young players side), where critical thinking is not needed from an early age as everything is laid on a plate. Clubs perhaps often shoot themselves in the foot by trying to limit their downside by creating clones that can be controlled and managed rather than strong characters with the ability to question, obviously within reason. I think its maturity that is often lacking. how to address this? I have no idea.

Sorry for the ramblings, and no need to answer. just my thoughts. have a good day eds.

{Ed001's Note - I am in full agreement with you. The world is set up to indoctrinate people into thinking the way you are told to think and act the way you are told to act. That is taken over into sports, where managers want players that do as they are told and follow their instructions, rather than people who can think for themselves and react to the situation at hand. That is why we have managers like Guardiola, who can't manage without ridiculous sums and squads of players miles better than the rest, rather than the great managers we used to have.}

2.) 17 Aug 2017 09:37:42
How many times have you heard stories of Liverpool the day before a European cup final in 1984 when Joe Fagan was in charge where the team preparation talk was just a friendly chat with no tactics at all. He basically said 'they're not as good as us, don't be late for the bus'. That was because he had 11 leaders and 11 footballers who knew tha game and knew how to take responsibility and think for themselves. And those were in the days before video technology and sometimes they had never seen the opposition play. How times have changed!

3.) 17 Aug 2017 10:14:33
Ed would you agree we should stay away from signing potential with Couts replacement?
What's the point when they reach the level Phil is at they leave anyway. We need to buy a ready made world class player imo.

{Ed001's Note - then we can't sign anyone as there is no one at that level, so better to sign potential to reach that level than lesser players.}

14 Jul 2017 07:15:36
Hey eds, question if I may. your thoughts on Carragher the player? Emotions aside. If he hadn't have been a local lad my thoughts are he would have been let go fairly soon. decent player, hardly great.

{Ed001's Note - I disagree, he was far better than you give him credit for, plus he was a leader on the pitch. It was nothing to do with him being a local lad, he was kept because he was good enough to force his way into the team every time a manager tried to replace him.}

1.) 14 Jul 2017 08:13:13
There are plenty of "local lads" that haven't had a sniff. Why were they not kept? You don't play 500 odd games, play in Champions League finals out of sentiment. Pretty daft question really.

2.) 14 Jul 2017 08:15:59
Hardly great? you obviously didn't take notice of him much then? he was absolutely brilliant in my opinion. You don't get to keep in a team like Liverpool for that long if your just a 'decent player' mate.

3.) 14 Jul 2017 07:43:35
That's right Ed001. The guy could actually play and wasn't just an out and out defender who would just clear the ball each and every time. I've had more than a few pints with the lad I'm happy to admit. I remember after he played for England at OT one Saturday arvo and then showed up for a quiet pint with his mates in Bootle that very same night. I thought to myself, "if that was Beckham there would be photo's being taken everywhere and headlines in tomorrow's rags. Try getting a snap of Carra in a dodgy bootle pub with a few of his mates around, it's curtains time sunshine :)

{Ed001's Note - he was a regular in Sullys.}

4.) 14 Jul 2017 09:41:45
Carragher was a very very good defender, nails hard and ultra competitive. He was also single minded and very driven, which is why he made it. You never once saw him give up or throw the towel in. Playing alongside Hyypia helped a lot in my opinion.

5.) 14 Jul 2017 09:52:05
We all dream of a team of carraghers! Well definitely a couple for the back four, not sure I'd want him up front for us.

6.) 14 Jul 2017 10:11:32
Heart of a lion. He was no stranger to scoring either - I think he was the third highest scorer against LFC after Drogba and Van Nistelroy.

{Ed025's Note - very limited ability wise RP but his commitment seen him through..

7.) 14 Jul 2017 10:36:24
I'd have him in my all time greatest team alongside Hansen. Legend is a fitting and justified term for once.

8.) 14 Jul 2017 10:46:05
He done exactly what he was there to do. DEFEND! Limited? What, limited to defending? Ok so he couldn't play like half the defenders of today, and they can't defend like Carra. Give me an out and out defender over a fancy dan ball playing accident prone John Stones type any day of the week. tell you what, if VVD is priced at Â£60 million then today Carra would be Â£80 million! Remember him in the CL final? Colossal.

{Ed025's Note - he done very well for himself welsh and i applaud that, would he be in my top 100 defenders?of course not i have seen milk turn quicker, besides drogba owning him and henry making him look like a statue not many fancied playing against him though...and he is a very good tv pundit..

9.) 14 Jul 2017 09:17:12
Hi Ed1, Do you think if Rafa hadnt put him at CB, do you think he would have played as many games or stayed so long? I have to admit when at Full back it didn't suit him, as he didn't go forward much (probably under instructions)
His type of player is sadly missing from the game now, commitment, organising, shouting instructions!

{Ed001's Note - it is impossible to say but centre back did suit his style much better than other positions he had played, though he could have played the role Rafa converted Lucas to play instead.}

04 Jun 2017 06:59:00
Hey eds, thanks for everything! Re our full backs, what are your thoughts on Mike Duff from Cheltenham town for right back? And Taribo West for left back? I think we can get Taribo on a free and Duff for about 250k, could be good business?

1.) 04 Jun 2017 09:24:36
Pep guardiila ona free transfer too please, only wants 55k a week!

ricedog's rumour replies

Click To View This Thread

05 Jun 2018 08:56:51
Guys its simple, a medical professional would not not dare risk his reputation by giving a clearly incorrect diagnosis of a player just to appease people, increase reputations or price. where on earth is his upside in this? Hence we can take it that what happened is true. Second to that, players rarely have any idea they are concussed, and even if they did they would choose to carry on. That is the hunger of pro sportsmen, it's why you see players trying to continue with a small hamstring injury and harming themselves further, or even continue playing out of fear they will loose their place, is it right, probably not, is it part of the reason why they are where they are. yes. An example: i played pro rugby for 7 seasons, i was fit, i was driven, i was ignorant. I was hit in the head in a game, i continued, i thought i had zero side effects, and the next morning i woke up dizzy, vomiting, and disorientated. I wasn't allowed to play for 4 weeks by medical staff who then actually apologised to me for not insisting i come off. Did it effect my performance? I have no idea, i am sure i made a few mistakes after that, but as i wasn't that good i am sure i would have made a few mistakes anyhow! but. and even after all of this. and i was absolutely chewed out by a member of the coaching staff for "choosing" to take so long out. (He was an idiot, and was very quickly put in his place by the team Dr), i tell you this to point out the complete lack of understanding by the layman but also the small level of acceptance associated with injuries such as this. Its as if they are just made up. Now. is it an excuse for the faults LK made, i have no idea. he probably has no idea if it did, because that is the exact nature of the injury the majority of the time. you actually have no idea yourself. No idea where I'm going with this, but it brought frustrations to the surface. Have some understanding, stop judging on subjects you know nothing about but feel the urge to wade into arguments with your ignorant comments and move on. what happened doesn't change anything of course, but your reaction to it can.

ricedog's banter replies

Click To View This Thread

30 Apr 2018 13:08:39
Zed. fair point but i agree with Johncrow. i think the list of failed managers who were great players is infinitely longer. Especially in todays environment where players are modicodled. being able to identify problems and actually fix them are worlds apart. (Shearer, Neville, Keane, Bruce, Sheringham, Adams etc etc etc) While you could maybe argue some players have gone onto decent managerial careers, they are exactly that, decent. not what we should be looking. I could be wrong of course with SG, but my money would not be on him, just as i wouldn't bet the house on Giggs at the moment either. In my chosen sport (rugby) a lot of the best head coaches down the years have actually had teaching experience in their early days, and literally all started at grass roots level at some stage for a number of years. I think this is invaluable in being able to manage people, which in my opinion is one of the most underrated qualities. All the great managers have had this, and being 38 and never having had to manage (captain is not managing) is a tough ask of anyone. Long term i think it is a tough one to sustain unless you are truely gifted.

Click To View This Thread

17 Aug 2017 08:54:46
Cheers for that eds. I know it is rather subjective, so not necessarily easy to answer as so many variables have to be included. I always felt the balance of a coaching staff is sensitive and needs to be addressed differently to what i often notice. Players will be drawn to different type of coaches/ personalities and will perform better given different motivations which include their relationships with staff. It is impossible to ask 1 person to fulfil this role. Hence having a diverse staff rather than a bunch of yes men willing to placate the manager, and of course a manager strong enough not to feel threatened by this. So i suppose my question was along those lines, if our staff are A: knowledgable and experienced enough B: implement successfully through communicating their ideas properly C: have empathy (which i think is as important as the actual coaching, as understanding a player and how they operate is fundamental and sadly highly lacking at times across sports) .

On your point, it is definitely a trend in sports in general that players cannot adapt to situations in front of them. I think a by product of their training from young and the expectation of easy success (from the young players side), where critical thinking is not needed from an early age as everything is laid on a plate. Clubs perhaps often shoot themselves in the foot by trying to limit their downside by creating clones that can be controlled and managed rather than strong characters with the ability to question, obviously within reason. I think its maturity that is often lacking. how to address this? I have no idea.

Sorry for the ramblings, and no need to answer. just my thoughts. have a good day eds.

Click To View This Thread

14 Jul 2017 13:14:26
Thanks Eds, appreciate the time. would i have him back. of course. but it was his commitment and his leadership that helped, something that is lacking generally in today's world, let alone football. But without those ( i. e. : if he had been playing for a team he was not so attached to), i doubt we would have seen the career he had. still a legend though . no doubt!

Click To View This Thread

21 Jun 2017 17:42:22
I played professional rugby in France for more than a few years. We had a few Muslim players in my teams and as the ed 01 suggested they were given "dispensation". The more devout then added on days at the end of Ramadan to make up for the days that they ate and drank during that period, specifically for match days only. The coaches were sympathetic to the players during the week for training.