10 Feb 2022 10:30:19
Just on Klopp and I'm wondering behind the smile is he a strict disciplinarian in regards how players behave of the field? Since he's came in we don't seem to have had any incidents involving players. I ask this question because of a few incidents that have taken place at other clubs recently.

{Ed001's Note - yes, he also has players' backgrounds investigated before they sign to try and pick the right kind of people.}

1.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 11:07:53
Thanks Ed.

{Ed001's Note - very welcome.}

2.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 11:25:27
I find it really weird that other big clubs don’t seem to take this as seriously as we do. You look across at Arsenal and United and they’re still having plenty of issues with player discipline, by and large from players who they knew were trouble before they signed them. Even City, who have cultivated a fairly professional culture under Guardiola decided to sign Grealish in the summer, which i find to be a real headscratcher as he seems to be a major disruptor and bad influence, like Pogba. It’s even more scary when you think that Klopp legged Sakho for a few fairly minor breaches of ill discipline, yet there are rumours that United knew about Greenwood’s behaviour for a while and did nothing about it. Why do other clubs seem happy to accept this as the norm and think it’s worth overlooking if the player has got a lot of ability? It always ends in tears.

{Ed001's Note - Pogba is not a bad influence or disruptor. He doesn't drink, he doesn't get into trouble off the pitch, it is his style of play that is the issue with him.}

3.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 11:52:09
Maybe some clubs don’t see the benefit of good behaviour off the pitch as long as the player can perform well on it?
But I think a player who’s a good professional off the field makes it more likely that the player and team performs better on it with less chance of issues effecting play myself.

4.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 12:19:07
Did Keitas issue exist before we signed the contract or after?

5.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 12:23:03
Keita must have slipped though the net then because am sure he was in trouble before we signed him.

6.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 12:26:50
There aren't many managers who carry an air of authority anymore to get players scared if they fall out of line. Unfortunately the balance of power has shifted which often leaves clubs being the one trying to appease players rather than the other way around. Naturally this has led to some players becoming arrogant and thinking they are untouchable. In the bigger picture, the whole sycophancy when it comes to football, and celebrity culture in general, needs to stop. It's just a game and they are just people who have skill in their feet.

7.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 12:32:00
Liverpool have done good but we have had our own issues in the past. Clubs can't control dumb decision and actions that players make off/ on the field. Its important that they don't condone it. Liverpool made a mockery of themselves when they supported suarez in past over a incident. We are not high and above others. Just that we have had a real bad experience and are very thorough now on players we sign.

8.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 12:32:40
Just to clarify Ed001 I do completely agree with you and i think it is a very important distinction to make. A lot of black players are castigated for being ‘flashy’ or changing their hair a lot by older pundits like Keane and Souness, who conveniently leave out that they used to eat kebabs and get smashed every weekend. It’s hypocritical, racist and entirely nonsensical, and I have no problem with players expressing themselves as long as they are well behaved.

I didn’t mean to make a direct comparison between Grealish and Pogba in that sense, but the guy does apparently have a very lackadaisical approach to training and a very liberal definition of a ‘winning mentality’. He’s been accused of dumbing down the culture at Carrington and I believe his silliness and laissez faire attitude was what Mourinho took issue with. He has been accused of being an infectiously bad influence in that sense.

{Ed001's Note - Mourinho picked a fight with the biggest name because that is what he does. There has never been any suggestions that he has any training issues at all. He is what could be termed flashy, that is the way he plays too, but he works hard and keeps himself very fit.}

9.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 13:33:36
Just an average player with limited ability. He’s a Good passer of the football. French Ward Prowse.

10.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 14:34:00
Far better than Ward Prowse, if he got his head together he'd be a smashing player.

11.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 14:41:30
Souness and Keane don't just criticise black players for being flashy. Calling them racist is out of order.

12.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 15:21:11
Agreed Rigsby. It's a lazy accusation to make. They call out a lot of players regardless of race. People focus on the Pogba criticism because it's a meme now. There of plenty of white players who behave like that too and plenty of black players who don't.

13.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 15:57:33
Agree Rigsby. People seem to forget how serious an accusation it actually is.

14.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 16:06:34
I don’t think it’s necessarily race being the reason for why they target pogba. It does seem to me he’s the epitome of a modern era footballer with the new hairstyles and image to go with it. And this is something they struggle to comprehend, so go over the top on their attack on him, particularly souness.

I mean there’s been worse players at united (both form and off the pitch) like Maguire for example but Souness hardly ever criticises him in comparison.

I do think he has a lot of ability, but just not the work rate to match. He’ll probably do well in la liga where he may be able to get away with that.

15.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 17:36:34
Marko grujic recently highlighted this in an interview. He said klopp asked about Diaz as a person and his off field behaviour. We seem to have a good group and think this is just as important as a players ability.

16.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 17:43:58
So if Souness is less critical of Maguire where does race come into it?
Keane has been very vocal about De Gea, Maguire and Shaw, as well as Pogba.
To call them racist based on what we've heard so far is just wrong.
Also, Souness and Keane might have been fond of a light ale but they usually delivered on the pitch and they did it for a long period of time.

17.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 17:55:23
I didn't say Souness and Keane only ever level racist criticisms of black players, nor did I say it was a perspective exclusive to those two individuals in particular. I didn't even call them outright racists. Racism isn't some one-size-fits-all thing. It isn't the case that you have all the lovely rational people on one side of the line and then hardcore fascists on the other. It is far more nuanced and the vast majority of people in this country would consider themselves to not be racist, yet so many of these same people often espouse racist ideas and perpetuate racist trains of thought.

The notion that modern black and mixed race players today are somehow very poorly disciplined because they have further interests outside of football - Pogba with his hair, Lingard with his fashion, Depay with his music - is nonsense. I hear more criticism about things like that than I do criticism of players like Foden, Grealish or even Rooney back in the day. This criticism often comes from pundits like Keane and Souness, pundits who loved a bevvy back in the day and sacrificed far less than these modern players in that respect, yet they talk about themselves as if they lived like Shaolin Monks so they could be ready for their club on the weekend. It is a perspective espoused by self proclaimed 'hard men' who just want to look for any excuse to moan about things they do not understand. Black players are constantly stereotyped as arrogant and self centred, while white players comparatively do not not get the same level of attention, despite often being far more poorly behaved.

None of this is to say I think pundits like Keane and Souness are evil hardcore racists (they were just two examples I gave who I recall relaying these attitudes) . These are wider societal trends of stereotyping we are talking about, mistaken fallacies in our logic that anybody can be guilty of. It is only through calling out these inconsistencies in our collective consciousness that racism can be defeated. To believe that racism as a concept is something that can only be attributed to the most evil people in society and is some kind of taboo word that should only be used sparingly is to misunderstand the problems we face in their entirety. I don't think that Souness or Keane or anybody who echoes these sentiments are evil people who should be locked up immediately, just that they should really think about what they say and why they are saying it, as we all should. Racism isn't some far flung and inconceivable evil that none of us have anything to do with; it is everywhere, within our communities, our social circles and maybe even within ourselves, and as such we should all be aware of that when looking to combat it.

18.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 18:35:06
AW, you said 'a lot of black players are castigated for being flashy or changing their hair a lot by older pundits like Keane and Souness. '
Why did you mention black players?
Keane and Souness castigate a lot of players for different reasons.
You have mentioned stereotypes of black players and I'm unaware of Keane and Souness doing so.
Are you suggesting that they are guilty of the racial stereotyping that you have mentioned?

{Ed0666's Note - there’s a lot of white players with silly haircuts also. My particular worst haircut award goes to Peter Quasimodo Beardsley! Please tell me how that man got laid??? And before the woke brigade retort back with he might have a nice personality we all know how that story ends…

19.) 10 Feb 2022
10 Feb 2022 20:11:53
I have to say, I haven't heard such nonsense in a long time. The old saying when you're in a hole stop digging comes to mind.

20.) 11 Feb 2022
11 Feb 2022 01:02:40
A considered response AW, well done. Not everyone will see it that way but there is certainly merit to what you say.

Along this thread, did anyone read Digger Barnes' new book? The uncomfortable truth about racism. This from a calm, smart black man. To distill it down, basically he says that just because we don't come out and say overt racist comments it doesn't mean that there aren't thoughts or racial stereotypes that we all have. We can all learn to be better in all aspects of life, I certainly can, and this area is no different. It's not about being woke or anything else, just being better people.

21.) 11 Feb 2022
11 Feb 2022 07:14:32
Anyway, back to the original post. Klopp did sign Keita and Kabak albeit on loan, who didn't cover themselves in glory at their previous clubs.

Maybe a point to consider when we go about Character assassinating other players and clubs.