03 Apr 2022 21:12:25
Ed0666 I don't want to troll back but the Kuyt thing from earlier he scored important goals not to sure during his time at the club we won one trophy. Origi scored in the champions league final the 2 in the semi final they are far more important goals. Kuyt worked hard but was very average and for me it's like Lucas Leiva the amount of people that think he was a good player baffles me that's why we was not winning trophies because players like that would get nowhere near Utd Arsenal and Chelsea team and that's why when we was not winning things nobody wanted them. Kuyt gets nowhere near the bench for this team most of the time the football was awful and the team was carried by Gerrard and Torres without we was very average.

{Ed0666's Note - mate I welcome the constructive feedback. I loved Leiva he was amazing on and off the pitch. Like you i fail to see how he wasn’t appreciated more…Yes Kuyt wasn’t the best talent wise but he made up for it in graft and you may oppose but Mane/Diaz, primo Kuyt and Salah wouldn’t be too shabby. You have to have the proverbial water carriers in every team and Kuyt was that guy. If you’ve ever played football at any level someone who works that hard there is always a place for in any team. Don’t forget we lost Momo with an eye injury when he was literally bordering on world class.

1.) 03 Apr 2022
03 Apr 2022 22:32:07
Kuyt also scored in a Champions League final. He also scored in the final of league cup that we won. I loved Kuyt then and im sure there would be a role for him in this team.

2.) 03 Apr 2022
03 Apr 2022 22:40:00
I can’t agree with you on momo Ed he was nowhere near world class that is thrown about far to much. I know every team needs it’s hard workers I would say Henderson fills that role now but you need more than that in the role that Kuyt played even if he was a great guy as he was. The top end of the pitch is where the magic needs to happen and as much as Kuyt ran about he did not have the magic. As for Leiva you have me mixed up I don’t think he was amazing, great guy but nowhere near good enough and that’s why we was so far off players like that where just not good enough.

{Ed0666's Note - we clearly disagree on most points mate but it’s all good lifes all about opinions. I know you do t think so but Momo was bordering on becoming a special player. The magic can only happen up top when the defense & midfield do their jobs. H

3.) 03 Apr 2022
03 Apr 2022 22:49:41
Thinking about average players like kuyt and Lucas makes me so glad we have Klopp at the helm. Hard working should never be enough to pull on a Liverpool shirt but unfortunately in the 2000’s it was.

4.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 00:00:14
I think there's a place for the system that you play in, in this discussion of football talent. I think a lot has to do with the role the manager assigns to you. The year before he joined us, Lucas Leiva was voted the best attacking midfielder in the Brazilian league. And we all know him as a DM at LFC.

We have the equivalents of yesterday's Leivas and Kuyts, in our current team. They're Henderson, Milner and Firmino. Water carriers, hard workers and guys with unglamorous roles that make Klopp's system click when he needs them to. Maybe all three are not being as efficient as they were before, but you have to recognize that they set the tone in prevfious years for what is happening now.

5.) 04 Apr 2022
03 Apr 2022 23:47:20
I agree w Ed 666. Momo was on the way to becoming world class until The Eye injury affected him so much that his ball control, passing and aggression were never the same again. The way he was tackling and dominating midfield before that, it really freed up Alonso and Gerrard to do what they do best - dictate and win games.

Kuyt wasn’t technically good enough but it wasn’t just his superb work rate, his ice cool penalties and big game temperament and goals were massive for us in some big games. The fact that he didn’t win much was as much down to he was largely in average teams and those couple years where we had strong teams, we just didn’t get the job done. It’s a team game and Alonso didn’t win much with us too; and no one here will dare say he’s average.

Lucas was a much better midfielder than he was ever given credit for but he was supposed to replace Alonso and we all know that man was a class above, so it wasn’t fair on him. And I recall seeing one prank video that highlighted why Klopp liked Lucas so much:-

In the prank, some driver took Lucas and a couple on a wrong route. Suddenly the team meeting changed timing and they were running late. Lucas looked worried while the others were still at best, passive, about the situation. He told the rest to get off the car and run back to the training ground to be in time for the meeting. That’s leadership, commitment and professionalism right there. These are things Henderson and Milner are now doing. It is not seen on the pitch, but it sets standards throughout the squad.

I would say Momo could easily have been a starter, Lucas in rotation and Kuyt in the squad in todays team.

{Ed0666's Note - Super post mate. Fabs or Momo? If Momo fulfilled his potential and at the trajectory he was traveling pre eye surgery then I would say Momo but it’s a toss up for sure. Lucas could have done the Hendo role with real aplomb I think he was probably the most underrated fort baller I’ve ever seen and In my opinion Klopp would have loved to have Kuyt in his squad but I’d understand if people opposed me on this one.

6.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 01:52:49
Lucas was better than stevie in the DM role.

Also, Kuyt would stunning in this team.

7.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 02:07:32
As good as I thought that 09 team was, MOMO kuyt or Lucas don't even make the bench for our current team. We are privileged right now and I think if we win all 4 trophies it will be 7 years for kloppo and he will resign.

8.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 06:07:47
Unlike hendo and Milner Bobby possess skill sets. He has a terrific first touch and is very comfortable in tight spaces. Bobby is no water carrier. Wijnaldum was.

9.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 06:26:03
Very good comparison between Momo and Fab. I think with the pace and intelligent running Fab has to aim for with his team mates Fab can look like the better passer but Momo was definitely on his way to being top notch. The lad didn't look out of place alongside much more established players in Gerrard and Alonso and I believe he was already superior to Mascherano. As for Dirk. OK not as gifted as some but for certainly not as bad as some people suggest. Don't forget he was also a started for the Dutch side that very nearly won the world Cup. And for attitude and popularity in the dressing room I think he would get a place in the match day squad under Klopp.

{Ed0666's Note - agreed mate

10.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 07:13:51
All top lads no doubt but Lucas doesn’t get near this team I’m sorry but he was tripe! Always came on late in a game and you could bet your house he’d give a silly free away out side the box! Some off the sentimental stuff here baffles me!
Kuyt a work horse but he was pony too!
We’d some dross and bad buys the era of parry and the cowboys was torture compared to the things we are witnessing now!

11.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 07:22:53
Kuyt was a player that wore his heart on his sleeve and he scored some very good and important goals for us. But for me he’s a few levels below Bobby who also plays with his heart on his sleeve. Kuyt was brilliant for us in what he did back then but every player that plays in this Klopp team has to have the work rate and ability to back it up.

Kuyt would get into a lot of Liverpool teams over the years but for me he doesn’t get into this one. And that’s not an insult as I don’t think many players would and that's just a reflection on what Klopp has done here.

12.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 08:17:59
Could not agree with you more Jay I don’t get the loving for Rafa’s time here 80% of the time the football was awful and with inflation I bet he spent more than Klopp I could not imagine going back to that type of football after the football under Klopp.
Under Rafa we had 3 world class players Gerrard Torres and Alonso.

13.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 08:44:24
There was a time when any post criticizing Lucas and you get a ban here lol. Lucas was okay. better than spearing anyways.
Kuyt could work all day and ask no questions. absolutely no skills whatsoever. You can't ask more when the club was in utter debt with two clowns in charge.

14.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 08:49:31
I think I'm with you on this one, grino. I think it's a sign of how far we've come - and arguably how far we'd fallen - that players like some of those you're talking about were first team regulars back then. Kuyt specifically is an interesting one. He played over 100 times for the Netherlands and I don't think you achieve that without being a decent player, and as has been mentioned here, his commitment and work-rate were outstanding, but I thought he lacked real quality and technical ability. Certainly not a patch on any of the attackers we're blessed with now.

Same with Leiva. He, deservedly, became a very popular figure amongst the fans. He always seemed very likeable, had a great attitude and obviously loved the club but I just never rated him as a really good central midfielder. Poor quality and technical levels again. I remember going to a match once and just watched him in the warm up for a few mins and even in the warm up drills his first touch was very loose.

This won't be popular, but I'm going to put Agger in here as well. Again, top bloke, massive Liverpool fan, loved the club and always gave his all. I know he was sought after by top clubs when he was with us, and perhaps the fact that he turned them down contributes to his popularity with Liverpool fans, but if I think of Agger, the image I see in my head is a last ditch lunge to try - often unsuccessfully - to block a shot in our penalty area because he'd lost his man or got out of position. Same with Skrtel - couldn't fault his attitude or commitment, but just didn't have that top quality.

By the way, I really liked all of them as individuals - I just never thought they were quite the level we need.

The facts speak for themselves really - during that period we struggled, despite having a number of world class players like Reina, Mascherano, Gerrard, Alonso and Torres. Arguably should have achieved more with those players but the rest, great attitudes and commitment though they had in abundance, just weren't quite top quality. Compare that to the team that has been assembled now. Absolute top quality in every position and even in some of the backups now.

15.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 08:58:33
Most folks are overlooking one vital thing that pushes average players into playing regularly for top clubs - mentality.
How mentally resilient players are, how they deal with life's knocks and respond to them plays a big part in it. Kuyt wasn't the most technically gifted player, but he had big cojones and hated losing.
That's an invaluable asset to have in your side, something Klopp refers to regularly with his "mentality giants" comments.
Having a team full of characters like that is a manager's dream.

16.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 09:09:06
We had absolutely nothing to spend Flash mate. I remember after finishing second to UTD we had what £20 mill to spend and Rafa splashed it on Glenn Johnson. he had to shift Alonso to bring a CM. Our backups during that time wouldn't get into AFC Wimbledon. Rafa wanted Villa and Silva and Rick Parry got him Spearing and Ngog. lol.

17.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 09:19:41
some of you liverpool fans making out that these players wouldn't even get on the bench is crazy. Now I know liverpool fans overestimate their players probably the worse in the league for doing so and there is no denying that you have some good players, the most important thing to liverpool is the system and manager and not the individual players imo anyway. I think it would be highly beneficial if you had a player like kuyte who is miles ahead of Origi in almost everything except pace would be great if you had hard worker as your 2nd striker and he wouldn't stop running and was a good finisher, better than origi and firmino. almost any of the midfielders from that era would have a part to play in this era. Lucas is better than kieta, momo is better than Kieta and masc and alonso were better than any midfielder you have with only really thiago as competition who is always injured.

18.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 10:09:37
Wasn't Spearing a product of the academy?

19.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 10:15:45
I think Kuyt would have thrived in this current team. he would have interchanged with Bobby as they both have the same work ethic. and we have to remember Klopp makes 95% of players better that in the squad. So Momo would have been immense.

20.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 10:20:58
Didn't Jay Spearing come through the youth ranks T_T?

21.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 10:43:00
I'm just astonished at the short memories. Kuyt was a very good if not great player. His first touch wasn't always the best but he worked harder than anyone, always showed up in the big games, and never moaned about being played out of position. 71 goals and 41 assists in 286 games (as per transfermarkt) . Of all the forwards we signed under Rafa only Torres, Garcia and Kuyt were truly successful. It was not easy to thrive as an attacker in that Rafa side even if you are playing in position. It was all set up for Torres and Gerrard and anyone else had to fit in around them. Most failed.

This debate started because of my reply yesterday about the 2009/ 10 team and who would be in a combined XI. Well in that season Torres scored 22 times, Gerrard scored 12, and Kuyt scored 11. So we can't say Gerrard and Torres carried the team and at the same time exclude Kuyt who was only narrowly our third top scorer despite putting in the hard graft that allowed Gerrard and Torres free reign going forward.

To clarify I am not saying Kuyt makes a combined XI because he most likely does not. Jota, Torres and Salah would be the front 3 realistically looking at the goals they all score. My reply was to Grino who said Kuyt would get less minutes than Origi which i still say is nonsense. 2009/ 10 Kuyt would be ahead Origi and Minamino at least. Probably level with the current Firmino. Diaz also needs to prove himself before we can put him ahead of Kuyt. He's started really well but he's got another 69 goals to go before he even matches Kuyt. Personally right now I'd have the 2009/ 10 Kuyt on the bench with Mane and Firmino. Jota, Torres and Salah starting.

It's fine if you disagree with that because at the end of the the day its an opiniond game. I don't think its okay to rewrite history to disrespect Kuyt or diminish his time at Liverpool though. Someone already said he scored in a CL final. He did his part whatever and whenever it was asked of him. He only played in 3 finals at Liverpool and he scored in 2 of them and converted a penalty in a shootout we won. He loved a goal against United and Everton to boot. Absolute mentality giant. It was the "nowhere near good enough" comment that got under my skin, Grino. That's just unfair in my opinion. He's probably in the top 7 players of the Rafa era alongside Alonso, Gerrard, Torres, Reina, Mascherano and Carragher. And of that 7 Kuyt was the only non-scouser who never turned his back on his. He was plenty good enough and he earned his place in our history through his hard work, loyalty, and important goals.

22.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 10:51:50
Lucas gave away a couple bad free kicks and then that stigma stuck with him forever. I love Bobby, but if his first touch was so good, why does his foot hit the ball like a brick and it bounces in the air or 2 yards too far so often lol.

23.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 10:56:35
I think Klopp would have loved to have had Kuyt.

24.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 11:25:45
In fairness to Kuyt he would only have to play 1 full league game to get more league minutes than Mino and Origi this season.

In fairness his goals and especially his assists are quite impressive in a Rafa side.

25.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 11:50:14
Yes, flash mate, Spearing came through the ranks, and that's the point. No money use what you have lol.

26.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 11:53:29
I think it unfair to tarnish Benitez's time at the club, he played football to his strengths and delivered us a CL Trophy. He was also in charge during some dark times for the club from an ownership perspective. I always felt that the Benitez teams were 1 or 2 players short at any time of pushing us to the next step and I don't think Bentitez can be blamed for that.

27.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 12:33:01
I agree stuie_boy. It was the left side under Rafa. We never managed to get a good left winger or left back in Rafa's entire tenure after he let Riise go. Kewell, El Zhar, Riera, Dossena, Traore, Aurelio, Insua etc all either didn't quite fit, weren't good enough, or couldn't stay fit. To be honest we should've kept Riise as a left winger because although he couldn't defend and was only average as a left winger, nobody after him under Rafa was a better left winger. Good left backs were a rarity in the 2000's but we certainly didn't stumble upon an answer to that problem.

Aside from the left side though, that team was littered with top players. I don't know where this Torres and Gerrard carrying us nonsense comes from. We used to sing we had the best midfield in the world! Sissoko, Alonso, Gerrard, Mascherano! Agger and Carragher holding fort were often the best defensive record in the league. Reina probably top 3 keepers in the league at the time (only really Cech and Van der Saar were superior) . Finnan was solid, and then Arbeloa was very good and went on to play for Real Madrid. Garcia initially and then Kuyt down the right wing were both good players.

We did actually have some decent players on the bench occasionally although a back up striker was always an issue. Personally think we should've kept Crouch and let him cover Torres. But Hyypia, Skrtel, Lucas, Babel and Benayoun in particular weren't bad squad players or impact subs. I'm with you mate. We were a left winger and a left back away from winning the league under Rafa and i don't get this rewriting of history to try and imply the whole team was average minus Gerrard and Torres. We won trophies in 2005 and 2006, but in 2007-2009 we were often ranked the best side in Europe. It's gutting we failed to capitalise on it but let's not pretend that everyone was bad just because we were a couple of pieces short of finishing the jigsaw. Average teams didn't beat Fergie's United 1-4 at Old Trafford in the same week they tanked Real Madrid 4-0.

28.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 13:37:28
Not your fault MK. Every manager and his era will divide opinion. Mark my words when Klopp leaves and someone posts a comment about his best 11 there will be many who reply to point out not playing centre back last season instead of just remembering his time with happiness. My memories of Rafas era are mostly brilliant. Yes a lot of the football was boring but not all of it, he was a political manager but also had to work under Parry then under 2 owners who didn't seem to like each other. He also brought us respect as a European force, the Gerrard and Torres chemistry and for me personally some of the funniest coach trips with some of our fans most inventive songs I've heard. Who fails to chuckle at the likes of 'oi Rafa. give Ngog a game ' to the tune of Pink Floyd's another brick in the wall. As for players, Reina at his peak I'd say gets a bench spot over Kellerher although I'm gutted coz my then wife fancied Reina and now my much younger partner says she would trade me in for Kellerher. Agger when fit is better than Matip I'd say, Momo was brilliant. definitely gets on the bench, Gerrard is Gerrard. Gets into most teams and not just liverpool sides, Torres for me at his peak would be unstoppable in this side. But as 666 says people are entitled to opinions. Not everyone agrees.

29.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 13:29:43
You forgot to mention Mr Robbie Keane. £20
Ducking million. Rafa had clue what to do with him either.

{Ed0666's Note - Rafa had no clue what to do with Keane? If Keane spent less time partying and more time on the training pitch we might have won the title that season.

30.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 13:56:19
Keane was a Parry singing. Rafa didn't want him. But still Keane got the winner at Arsenal and set up 2 at goodison then gets sold for not a shabby amount. Even Andy Carroll who is up there with the worst signings ever bring good memories. The 35 million pounds I didn't spend of my own money was worth it for the last minute winner at Wembley and getting back to a pub full of dejected blue noses to get yet more bragging rights. And I'm not saying either were great signings but if you can see good and bad in everything.

{Ed001's Note - not true, Keane was a Rafa signing.}

31.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 13:59:07
I loved Agger, Bigbaz. If he'd been able to stay fit i think he'd have been better than Carragher or Hyypia. He just never got into a good rhythm.

32.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 14:10:59
Soz 001 I heard otherwise but I bow down to your superior knowledge. MK I agree, I wasn't a huge fan of Carragher but I get what he brought to the side. If Agger could get a good run of games I'd say no contest who the better player was.

{Ed001's Note - Rafa himself has confirmed it a number of times that his targets were Barry and Keane that window. Keane was an off-field problem, that was why he was out so fast.}

33.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 14:16:13
Momo seemed to have the world at his feet, it’s a shame about that injury, we will never know how good he would have become now.
Lucas would have got game time in this current team, such an underrated player and a grafter.
Same with Kuyt, underrated and a grafter.
If Milner gets in our team today for the same qualities then Lucas and Kuyt would also.

34.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 14:48:44
There a lot to get said for grafters. How many players get called Genius but to lazy, the ones who spring to mind for me are Le Tissier, Hoddle and even by my grandads generation Barnes. All great players. Surely it works in reverse. Work rate and will to win can also elevate someone. Like Dirk. I mean I've even seen on Barcelona blogs that Puyol was not the best player they has in that team but coz he had Sand and made the most of what he had he was loved. That's what Kuyt had for me. Toughness, never say die attitude and heart that not many posses. I've posted on here before when we went to city not long after they got bought, Dirk fluffed a pass and the city fans has been singing all game about how they're going to buy Gerrard, They're going to buy Torres but when a misplaced Kuyt brought laughs from the city fans as they were winning 2-0 it brought a few groans from our fans. Get to 93 mins after we dragged it back to 2-2 guess who was on hand to get the winner? Big Dirk.

35.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 15:03:04
Also this whole post reminds me if sitting with my dad and his mates as I was a no nothing kid and the few who couldn't get over Kevin Keegan always shouted about his work rate but perceived lack of ability to the King. As I say surely there's room for talent with work rate and work rate with talent. Dirk probably comes under the latter but he can't be considered a failure surely.

36.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 15:34:05
Bigbaz

Disagree on Keegan. How can a “not so good enough” player goes on to win two European footballer of the year after leaving LFC. You are talking trash. Keegan was excellent. The amount of disrespect the man gets on this page is baffling.
Go and watch some of the footage of his days at Hamburg. The guy was outstanding.

37.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 15:50:04
Transisition it's not my opinion mate. As I said it was by dad's mates who couldn't get over him leaving. Their basis being that he worked so hard compared to Kenny. It's like this thread. You can have grafters with less natural ability or in Kennys case football brains and still be world class, or less work ethic but natural ability like Barnes and still be world class. Without a mix of 2 you make it. Show me where I disrespected Keegan and I will apologise.

38.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 17:15:00
Sorry from my side too BigBAz. I got carried away: Keegan was my Uncle's fav footballer. Plus for some strange reason, he is completely ignored amongst the legends.

39.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 15:42:50
Didnt Lucas suffer some knee injury which robbed him of decent form? I could be wrong but there was a time the Brazilian fellow was playing some great stuff. Who doesn't a fair bit of Dirk? Always had an Everton and United goal in him. The Spanish right back we sold to Real was also very solid.

40.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 17:37:18
I'd say it's probably due to who he was replaced by. Keegan was some of my dad's generations hero who I remember all sulking wondering how him and Kenny would perform together but never really getting over him leaving as it hurt them as he was their hero when they were growing up. But I enjoy reading old school autobiographies from old players. Tommy Smith and Emlyn Hughes who didn't seem to like each other but rated them both closely. I suppose it was like me when Robbie left. 3 day drown my sorrows when he left. Then when he came back 3 day binge.

41.) 04 Apr 2022
04 Apr 2022 23:14:09
Between Fab and Momo. If the team doesn’t have a Alonso / Thiago, Fab is in as he is a better passer, if there is, Momo is in.

Imagine a 4-2-3-1 with Momo and Fab at the base, mane, firmino, Diaz ahead of them, then a Salah / Torres / prime Fowler at the tip. That will be a very dominant side on and off the ball.