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12 Aug 2019 19:37:53
First teams aside, do City's backups really rank better than ours? This is based on the starting 11's from the weekend.

City: Bravo, Mendy, Otamendi, Angelino, Cancelo, Foden, Gundogan, B. Silva, Fernandinho, . (Won't include Auguero yet but maybe Pep is opting for Jesus ahead of Aguero this season, let's see)

Liverpool: Adrian, Matip, Lovren, Milner, Ox, Shaq, Lallana, Keita, Origi, Brewster. If we add Van Der Berg, Elliot, Hoever and Larouci (spelling) surely LFC are not in that bad off?

Based on the above, which set backups would everyone prefer? I will stick with our set of backups thanks :-)

Agree3 Disagree0

12 Aug 2019 19:55:09
In that case then Pep really is a better manager than Klopp because he won the league and two cups last season with - effectively - those backups.

12 Aug 2019 20:04:48
When we win back to back titles and three domestic cups, Including the league, I’ll agree with you mate

We had a great season but our lack of quality shows after Christmas.

You forgot Rodri, who is a superb player and how can you not count Aguero?

Good post but let’s see what happens when we play in Qatar over Christmas.

12 Aug 2019 20:05:27
Whether Pep is better than Klopp = too many variables.

Would Pep have won the League managing Liverpool season one with the squad Klopp took over from Brendan?

I do not think so. Pep did not have to build a squad and LFC finished 1 point behind City last season with City having the most expensive squad ever.

But now to the question again as it was not about which manager is better, it was pointing out that our backups are not half as bad when looking at City's backups. Well just my opinion.

12 Aug 2019 20:12:20
Mendy, cancelo, silva and fernandino would start for 18 of the 20 teams in the league.

12 Aug 2019 20:15:26
Pep is NOT a better manager than Klopp.

{Ed001's Note - and Mendy is terrible and would not start for 18 of the 20 teams. He would struggle to get in most Championship teams if the Norwich left back is any kind of guide.}

12 Aug 2019 20:23:52
You’d be deluded to say our set of back ups is better than there’s. You’d also be deluded if you said we had no depth, it’s just one team in the league has better depth than us. Adding personnel in the summer wasn’t about adding depth, it was about improving it. City did that yet again, and we didn’t. Whether that will hurt us or not for the rest of the season we’ll see, last season we were pretty lucky with injuries to our best players, already this season we’ve had one hit the deck in the first game of the season and there’s more games to play this season than last, so it’s a different ball game. My biggest concern for this season wasn’t whether or not we would bring in players but how this set of players would mentally prepare themselves for another long a** season of potentially getting 90+ and not winning the league after last season.

12 Aug 2019 20:40:51
Kman92, Shaqiri provided a better return in less matches/ minutes played compared to Bernardo Silva. If need be Shaqiri can do the job for us. That is the point.

Otamendi, please let us not even go there. Lovren all day long.

Again, it was not about saying our backups are better. The questions were, when looking at the backups, how much better do City's rank compared to LFC's plus which backups would one prefer?

12 Aug 2019 21:00:55
I think both teams and squads will be compared at the end of the season by points and trophy tally.

12 Aug 2019 21:01:06
OP, City have had the best squad in the PL for near a decade now and they have been pumping money into that squad with every manager since Mark Hughes. That is a fact you ignored in your post. Therefore, your comparison is too simplistic and supremely flawed. You mentioned City's backups. Those backups cost 10's of millions of pounds. Mendy (45m), Otamendi (30m), Bravo (35m), Cancelo (60m) and Bernardo (60m), Fernandinho (34m) . Secondly, some of those players that are backups now, have been at City for the past few years now cos well, City don't really sell their first team players. Not exactly apples and oranges to me, man.

As a result, comparing a squad that has had near a billion spent on it under Pep alone (not counting the huge sums of dough Pello and Mancini spent on it) automatically makes them a better squad and hence, have better backups. On LFC's side, we would never be able to compare with their squad cos we haven't been spending on it the same way they have and even tho we have spent money ourselves, it was spent unwisely. Klopp is fixing that.

Klopp was able to beat Bayern to the title twice in Germany cos he was able to create a well-oiled machine at BVB (with smart coaching and recruitment) that could take on all comers including Bayern and tho it took a few years, he prevailed. That is what he is trying to do here at LFC cos we are his BVB to Pep's Bayern, if you like so always looking at LFC thru the prism of what City (a totally diff. beast) do to me, is a waste of time and effort cos there are diff. dynamics on both sides.

12 Aug 2019 21:02:26
Man City's quality beyond their first 11 is unreal. It's the reason they win the League and the other trophies, especially offensively. For me it's not even close.

From last season : Sane, Mahrez, Silva, Sterling, Aguero, Jesus. It's some array of talent. For me after our first 3 our back ups don't come close. I love Origi and I pray that Brewster turns out to be a world beater but it's a big ask.

The midfield and defence maybe is a bit closer although Fernandinho is great even still, and Foden could be special, but I would struggle to replace them with a fit and firing Ox and Milner.

So in short it's their forward power that make the difference for me.

12 Aug 2019 20:57:35
Nice one ed25 regarding Jamal Lewis of Norwich, Max Arron really good to on the other flank.

12 Aug 2019 21:08:22
Jay sis Christ Max, you’re the epitome of optimism, but this is blind beyond belief mate, come on!

Forget naming every single player. Think about if we were unlucky enough to lose Mane and Salah, we’d be absolutely shafted. If they lost sterling and Bernardo silva, they’d still have Sane and Mahrez. We have no RB cover, they have Cancelo. We lose Firmino, our cover is Origi vs their cover of either Jesus or Aguero. Whilst Jesus is not outstanding, he’s still more dangerous than Divock.

12 Aug 2019 21:08:40
Johnnyr1970, I totally disagree on Pep being a better manager than Klopp. No one gave Klopp a silver spoon in his mouth at the start of his coaching career. We can't say the same for Pep. Answer me this:

Would Pep have gotten LFC to where we are now if he arrived after the mess BR left us? Could Pep have risen to the level of Klopp now, had he started his career at a near-penniless Mainz in the depths of the German second division? Would Pep be where he is now had he not always had the best players and the most money to outspend the competition everywhere he has coached?

If the answer is no then sorry, Pep is not better than Klopp cos we know Klopp could get to Pep's level as no.1 and no.2 in the world with his track record. We DON'T if Pep would have gotten to where he is now without a silver spoon in his mouth, so to speak.

12 Aug 2019 21:17:07
Our under 23s just got hammered 4 nil by the spuds. its only the first game but we had 4 or 5 players who are supposedly on the verge of 1st team.

12 Aug 2019 21:25:03
Shaq Attack, Sane is injured and will be out for many months.

See, you are using your logic, which is not going very far and basing it on LFC losing Mane, Firmino and Salah all at the same time.

If City lose Sterling, Jesus and Aguero all at once then their goal supply will be cut by about 50%.

It is this logic that does not go very far and why some even have such thoughts in their brain of us losing our front three all at once really is disturbing to say the least.

12 Aug 2019 21:40:54
It's not necessarily about losing Mane, Firmino and Salah all at once Max. It's about looking at the bench to see who can get you a goal if need be. It's hard to argue that City don't have more quality to do so. It's also why Liverpool went out meekly in the 2 domestic trophies.

You optimism is to be admired but as Johnnyr says (and Redwolf completely missed the point), if we have a better or equal squad then Pep must be the better manager. I don't think he is, so it has to be his squad.

12 Aug 2019 22:00:14
Irish, I think you need to go read Shaq Attacks post again losing Mane and Salah.

If City lose Sterling and Aguero, who will get them 20 plus x 2?

You see, it is this kind of logic about us losing players and not having replacements that is beyond logic.

Irish, give us your opinion about City having to lose Aguero and Sterling, in the region of 40 goals and many assists between them. Who will City turn to? Who will make up those 40 goals. Oh wait, we do not even know how long they will be out for plus we do not even know what injuries they will get. Then Jesus will get an injury and City will get relegated.

Our front 3 are doomed with inuries beckoning according to our fans. Why on earth even have such thoughts? With the amount of injury worries in some of those on here, the thoughts of players getting injured stuck in their brain, at the rate of their thoughts we will be without a single player for our next match.

12 Aug 2019 22:04:41
There shouldn't be much doubt that ManC's bench is better than ours. I would even say that the management of both teams know this, too. How else would you explain LFC backing off from the two Cup tournaments to focus on the EPL and UCL (and may choose to fo it again this year), while ManC were able to go full throttle across all tournaments and win 3 of them?

12 Aug 2019 22:16:44
There is nothing between Liverpool and Manchester City. We play different, we are massively different Clubs. But in terms of ability, there's nothing in it, we are almost equal.

12 Aug 2019 22:29:47
Max when you look at City’s goal scorers their numbers are spread greater, and with higher contributions, from squad players.
We are much more reliant on the front three. That’s just a statistical fact.
The loss of Sane is a blow to them, most certainly.
And so far this season, to Liverpool’s credit, our goals have been shared around - Matip, Virgil, Origi.
That’s a scenario that we need to continue.
Keita and Shaqiri need to contribute between 7 - 10 goals each, with others chipping in too, in order to be close to City’s numbers.

12 Aug 2019 22:30:28
Max you really take this comparison with us and City very seriously. Whoever’s sat at the top of the table when the season ends the argument of who has the best squad will be irrelevant. Just enjoy the ride and what will be will be.

12 Aug 2019 22:54:43
I am concerned we might miss out on top 2 this year maybe end up fighting for top 4 .

12 Aug 2019 22:59:30
Have to agree with you 1969 and let’s not forget, they won back to back titles and two domestic cups without Kevin De Bruyne for a lot of the season.

The proof is in the pudding, it’s not easy to win the league back to back times and you need quality squad depth in order to do so. It wouldn’t surprise me if they win it again this season, hope I’m wrong of course.

12 Aug 2019 23:05:22
There is nothing between Liverpool and Manchester City. We play different, we are massively different Clubs. But in terms of ability, there's nothing in it, we are almost equal.
==============================================

So why they won 3 trophies and we bombed out of the first round we were involved of the domestic cups? Is their manager better? . according to many in this thread alone, Klopp is the better manager even with one eye closed? so what is it then? must be their fans, they don't waste half their time comparing other teams .

13 Aug 2019 00:13:04
Head to head in my opinion

Alisson>Ederson
Trent>Walker
Gomez>Stones
Virgil>Laporte
Robertson>Zinchenko
Fabinho>Rodri
KDB>Hendo
D. Silva>Gini
Salah>Mahrez
Firmino>Jesus
Mane>Sterling

Bravo>Adrian
Cancelo>Hoever
Otamendi>Matip
Mendy>Larouci
Milner>Angelino
Gundogan>Keita
Foden>Ox
Fernandinho>Lallana
B. Silva>Shaqiri
Sane>Origi
Aguero>Brewster

I think starting XI (most recent) we edge them out based mostly on our defence. A lot of the individual battles are very tight too. But when you look at the squad depth they are better nearly player for player behind the starting line-up. In fact I would only have two of their players in our starting XI but their entire second XI is probably better excluding Milner. It is their depth in forward areas and attacking midfield which is most frightening. We might have a better first team but the gap to our second team is pretty significant. City's second team is arguably as good as their first team. I think that is why we are better in the Champions League because we have more first team quality to beat the best, but they are better in the league because they can rotate without weakening at all.

13 Aug 2019 01:28:11
Roy what fans?

13 Aug 2019 02:01:34
Agreed Irish and PB - the key difference is that their bench of forwards includes Mahrez, Jesus and Sane (although now injured), while ours includes Shaqiri, Origi and Brewster. That’s a big difference IMO and being able to call on that bench in tight matches or the cups is a key difference.

The other difference IMO is they have KDB and Silva in midfield and arguably our most creative/ goal scoring midfield players are Ox and Keita. Hendo and Gini aren’t bad, but their game is about controlling midfield and feeding the front three rather than being the creative force. That’s why City won more games but we lost less.

This season will depend on how Shaqiri and Origi perform in backing up our front three and whether Ox/ Keita can add the cutting edge from midfield to swing those tight draws into wins.

{Ed001's Note - doesn't that mean we can call in attacking threats in midfield which can be the difference in tight matches just the same as they can up front? People are so ridiculously one-sided in their views that they don't even see the hypocrisy in their own words.}

13 Aug 2019 05:31:48
In that case Redwolf we should have won the league and all the domestic trophies last season because both our team (and backups) and manager are better than City's. I think the rose tinted glasses need to come off folks - our second string players are not as good as what City have available and that showed last season and will probably show this season as well, in fact we're about to test that with our reserve keeper.

13 Aug 2019 08:08:39
I will back our guys.

But I would say that their style of play is more consistently implemented through their 22. Whereas the quality of our press for example changes when we start digging into the backips.

13 Aug 2019 10:17:58
Johnny, where did I say in my post that we had better backups than City? I in fact, said the opposite. Where are the rose tinted glasses in stating that City have better backups cos well, they have spent near a billion on the squad under Pep alone? Do you not see any correlation in those two things? You should go read my post again before you respond accurately to it.







 

 

 
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