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13 Aug 2019 09:01:29
Re my post yesterday about LFC's and City's backups, just shows you how quickly some on here will post things to suit their arguments by changing the subject.

Not once in my post did I mention anything about Pep being better than Klopp vice versa pr our backups being better than City's vice versa.

I merely asked how much better City's backups rank than ours plus which set of backups one would prefer.

Truth be told the Pep better than Klopp arguments started. Just shows the one eyed view of some of our fans to suit their arguments.

But while we are at it, City won all 3 domestic trophies last season, first time that has ever been done.

So,

If that is the case then why has Pep not won the CL with City?

Agree2 Disagree0

13 Aug 2019 09:24:42
I was one of the first people to reply to your post and my point was that if we have a better or equal squad than City then Pep must be the better manager because he coached a worse squad than ours to a league title plus 2 domestic trophies whereas our manager could only coach a supposedly better team to one trophy - ergo the difference between the teams must be the manager.

I do think Klopp is probably a better manager that Guardia but we don't have a better squad than City, simple as that. The first pick players may be their equals but our supporting cast are just not quite as good and that tells over 38 league games.

13 Aug 2019 09:50:17
You have just repeated what you said and changed the subject again!

Why has Pep not won the CL with City johnny?

13 Aug 2019 10:01:40
Max appreciate your opinion mate. But it doesn’t matter how many times you post it you aren’t going to be able to change others of their own. That’s why the game is loved by so many because everyone gets to have their own views and say.

{Ed001's Note - you are doing the same thing, avoiding the question he asked. He has not posted the same thing, he has asked a specific question and no one is giving him an answer, just changing the subject.}

13 Aug 2019 10:03:23
Didn't see the post but how can one argue 😂. City 100% have the better squad imo but the first 11 would be fairly close to call. As with the managers they are different PG have been fairly big spending getting good teams when he walked in imo. They seem to drop off after a few years aswell. Klopp has built teams and improved players but has also spent abut where needed.

13 Aug 2019 10:04:09
Johnny, the topic is not as cut and dry and simplistic, as your argument suggests. Once again and I mentioned this in my response to you on this topic, City have had the best quality squad in the PL since 2010 easily BEFORE Pep even arrived there. Then, Pep has come in as has spent another near 850m on it in 4 years while Klopp came in 2015 with the shambles of a squad BR left him. Comparison with apples and oranges and That my friend, is the position where the comparison is deeply flawed.

Klopp has had to build this squad brick by brick, chopping and changing while Pep has had carte blanche to just buy and buy and buy. Example. He spent 35m on Bravo. He flopped. Next season? He signs Ederson for another 35m. And you wonder why they have better depth at GK than the other 19 teams. This is something Klopp and LFC cannot do so again, the level is not even and is deeply staunted. Therefore IMO, for Klopp to arrive to Pep's level with the way both coaches started their PL careers, I maintain that Klopp is the better manager, pound for pound.

13 Aug 2019 10:14:34
Ed001 I along with quite a few other posters answered his question yesterday. I think our first choice starting 11 and City’s are both world class with nothing separating it. But with regards to the squads I would say City has a better squad. Their 3 forwards in reserve tip it for me. From what I read yesterday no one was actually saying Pep was a better manager. They were using that point to make their point.

{Ed001's Note - read it again, that is not what he asked. He even re-posted the question and you still aren't seeing it!}

13 Aug 2019 10:35:39
IMO City hasn’t won the CL yet because while they have the deepest squad in attacking sense (particularly useful in the PL where they would expect them to dominate possession for long periods against most sides), in the CL where possession is a lot more even and you’re against the best sides in the world, you need to have a more balanced side able to withstand long periods of pressure.

By contrast Liverpool has the better defence and midfield (particularly when not in possession) who are able to make it difficult for the very best teams in the world to play their game, which in a 50/ 50 scrap is extremely useful. Even when we got beat by Barca, arguably the actual play was much more even than the score line suggested.

It also means we can go into almost any tie trusting our ability to close out a tight game, or alternatively, and if necessary, switch to all out attack if required to make up a deficit. That versatility is key in managing the different scenarios the competition throws up.

The other factor of course is Anfield. The atmosphere and fans make Liverpool extremely dangerous in the two leg knock-out phases and it can’t be understated what the history and mental side of the game can do to impact the players.

13 Aug 2019 10:40:32
JK you'd make a cracking politician mate! Give a brilliant answer to a question that wasn't asked 😂.

13 Aug 2019 10:48:15
Maxlfc - City/ Pep haven't won the Champions League as they have failed to win all their games. In the last 4 years they have been knocked out over the course of two games, of which they have beaten/ draw each side on one leg with the exception of Liverpool. That is testament to the squad that they have but I think the one massive factor that has been missing is the support on those European nights coupled with the fact City have never won the Champions League - this will have a psychological impact. At Anfield on European nights the atmosphere is electric and this will filter through to the players and lift them - do City have this '12th man'. not a chance.

13 Aug 2019 10:58:27
Good post SGRed.

The fact that we came in within 1 point of City in the League, pretty much matched them with goals scored, conceded less suggests that the margins when it comes to LFC's backups and City's backups based on the League last season, the margins are very, very fine.

If there was a massive points gap then it would be cause for concern.

That is why I originally said, starting 11's aside, based on the info supplied, how much better do City's backups rank compared to ours and which set of backups would one prefer?

Please note everyone, I have not and never did state that Pep is better than Klopp vise versa and whether our backups are better than theirs vise versa and did not include starting 11's in my original post. Thanks for clearing that up Ed001.

{Ed001's Note - I am not sure anyone is taking any notice though max. We get it all the time as editors. You put a reply and no one actually reads it and jumps on something completely different that you never said because they didn't take the time to read the reply properly.}

13 Aug 2019 10:59:27
Ed001 / Bled / MAX 😂 The answer to why Man City haven’t won the CL is easy. It’s because at some point in the competition whenever they have been in it they have been knocked out. That’s the only explanation I can give. When Rafa won it for the 5th time with us. Was it because we had the best squad in Europe. We couldn’t even make top 4 in the league that season.

{Ed001's Note - yayyyy finally! Thank you!}

13 Aug 2019 11:07:44
I'll take a stab at answering the question. The reason City have not won the CL under Pep, in my opinion comes down to tactics. The european game is much different than the premier league, you can't just go in and steamroll teams like city do in England becuase the teams won't just roll over. I also think that Pep's antics get to city and adds pressure to the team. When they are in a close match or losing, watch Pep on the sideline. Klopp on the other hand changes based on the opponent and the situation. He took a really average at best Liverpool team to the Europa League final before losing to Siville. Pep could have never done that with LIverpool's squad at the time. Maybe oversimplistic, but there you go.

13 Aug 2019 11:12:27
Man City prey on the fear factor. The rest of the PL is scared of them. They sit back and try absorb pressure at some point in the game, and Man City's squad with Pep's ssystems are too good for that.

It isn't the same in the CL. Teams have a lot more to lose in every game, and they're more willing to have a go. This results in closer games, and when the chips don't fall their way in these situations, they struggle to get over the line anywhere near as consistently. It'll happen for them at some point, assuming nothing changes.

13 Aug 2019 11:24:45
JK23, CL 2005, I doubt one will see another CL final as good as that.

Rafa's tactics are suited for Europe but time and time again showed that he could not cut it in the League, not finishing 4th is evidence of that when we won the CL that season. Rafa's last season with us was a disaster.

13 Aug 2019 11:40:11
Man City haven't won the CL with City because they've not been good enough to win it. Simple really.

13 Aug 2019 11:46:28
also pep tries to be a smart arse when it comes to the knock out stages, re: last years 1st leg vs spurs.
He has never won a cl without Messi and I expect that to continue. Look at how he failed so badly with the Bayern Munich side, he could never get past the semi-finals.
What he needs to realise is that at the end of the day, players are human beings, play your strongest team and let them get on with it, you cannot possibly control every aspect of every situation, he seems like the sort of guy that sucks all the fun out of playing the game, even though he has been successful domestically.

13 Aug 2019 11:47:23
Max, City have the better squad cos well, the backups were either once signed (expensively) as starters hence, no longer are starters or were signed as potential starters so we can put that to bed.

Now regarding how City have not won the CL, I think Alvy and Stone has it spot on. In Europe, teams a) do not fear City that much hence, don't care what they do. They play them with alternative tactics that it seems City can't deal with and since these teams attack them and put pressure on them regularly in games, that puts pressure on their midfield and defence, something they are not used to dealing with in the PL for the most part. This is where they struggle and will continue to struggle if yhey don't change their mentality in CL games and adapt their tactics, something Klopp is better than Pep in, clearly.

13 Aug 2019 11:54:19
City have been knocked out to premier league opposition the last 2 seasons. Us and Spurs. To win the CL clearly you have to be a very good side but there is fortune in there as well. Last season we won it despite losing 3 games in the group (if other results had gone against us we wouldn’t have got out of the group) .

13 Aug 2019 11:59:58
IMO pep is tactically naive over 2 legs and overcomplicated. Always seems to try something ‘clever and surprising’ that bites him in the bum.
The 2 leg format doesn’t suit city because their home support And aura is so weak compared to most established European giants.
His teams, so dominant in the league and used to blowing teams away, are also not tested enough and get surprised when actually going toe to toe with class opposition.
You could also argue the expectation for them to justify themselves and finally win it makes it harder for them, a bit like how winning the league again for us is a kind of burden.

13 Aug 2019 11:59:59
In my defence I responded to the question on the original post Ed001! Short version is I think our starting 11 is better which means we can match the big boys in Europe on the big nights. However I think City can name nearly two 11's of very similar standards which gives them a slight edge in the league as they have the ability to rotate to rest players without any major drop off in quality.

In terms of who at City gets in our starting lineup I think KDB and D. Silva are the only shoe ins. Then the likes of Laporte, Ederson, Fernandinho, Sterling and Aguero are debateable but edged out by Virgil, Alisson, Fabinho, Mane and Firmino in my opinion. Nobody else in their team comes close. Salah, Trent, Robbo and Gomez trounce the likes of Mahrez, Walker, Zinchenko and Stones.

However, look at their bench and the only player on our bench who maybe makes theirs is Milner who has improved massively since he left City. Possibly Adrian over Bravo? That's no guarantee either.

Two very different approaches to building a team. Klopp has focused on trying to achieve an elite 11 with youth to cover. Pep has focused on an top class squad of 20 with a handful of elite players. It's horses for courses. We won the biggest trophy in club football, but they won 3 trophies.

{Ed001's Note - don't worry PB no one takes any notice of you anyway ;-)

Oh and I would have Origi over Jesus any day. Not convinced by Jesus at all and he has an attitude.}

13 Aug 2019 12:01:27
"Based on the above, which set backups would everyone prefer? I will stick with our set of backups thanks :-"

Based on the final statement you made Max, it would suggest to me that you think our backup squad or better or at least equal to Citys. So for me you did state which set of backups are better.

It is only then that posters look for another reason ie Pep or Klopp.

Why haven't City won the CL? Pop's tactics maybe in a certain game, performance on the night, because even great teams can't win all the trophies?

13 Aug 2019 12:13:06
Hahahaha this is golden. Ed1 may the force be with you, old jedi;) . Seriously though wtf with this thread, I'm not singling any posters out but read the post properly! It's really that simple.

Stone, I agree with you mate.

{Ed001's Note - I need more than the force!}

13 Aug 2019 12:31:46
Redwolf, agree re City when it comes to EPL vs Europe.

Beating City to the League this season is going to come down to the following things, beating them at Anfield, getting a result at the Ethiad, capatilising when they draw or lose and then making sure we are either biting at their heels or stay ahead of them.

13 Aug 2019 12:35:24
Max - Pep and Klopp are two different managers. We have an incredible pedigree in Europe and as another poster said, we won it with Rafa with a very average team.
Ask anyone, Pep is perceived as the manager with the golden touch but we know in reality he’s always walked into a job with a good team.

It’s a difficult question because Pep has won back to back league titles with City and domestic cups, he’s also Beaton Klopp’s team in the final’s we’ve played them in ( with Liverpool that is ) . So statistically, as it stands, Pep is the better manager purely through what he’s achieved with Cit, money spent or not, he has delivered and we all know how success is measured through all walks of life.

The Champions league is a totally different animal to the league. Over two legs we are a match for any team in Europe, though had Barcelona been more clinical in front of goal in the first leg, we might not be talking about number 6, but that’s a discussion for another day.

You’ve pretty much answered your own question mate regarding squad depth and why city haven’t won the CL .

Over 38 league games, with FA cup and league cup this season and a back to back league win, they have the strongest squad. We fell away after Christmas.

Yes we missed out by one point but the bottom line is, we came second to Manchester City.

{Ed001's Note - you could also say if Liverpool had been more clinical in the first leg in Barca it would be different too. People seem to forget that Barca were clinical and we weren't in that game and that it was a very close game despite the scoreline.}

13 Aug 2019 12:35:25
i think City's backups are better because imo :


- collectively they suit Pep's style. that is, you don't seem to observe a significant change to how they play or even a significant drop in quality really

- their squad have won the league back to back seasons and picked up cups along the way. This sustained excellence, I think, speaks to the strength of their squad and its ability to sustain a high performance level through their 22. With us we have able backups, but we then need to adjust how we play to fit them in etc.

Both are great coaches.

13 Aug 2019 12:18:35
Lol! Have a good day mate. Or try to.

13 Aug 2019 13:16:32
I was talking about this to a City fan yesterday, bit of a coincidence.

My reasoning is that Man City's defense isn't great, but in the Premier League, there's only really a handful of teams who try to test their defense. The rest try to soak up pressure and just hand the initiative to Man City.

In the latter stages of the CL, it's rare that you'll play a poor team, and all these teams HAVE to attack in order to win, so Man City's defense gets tested more, and gets found out more. They're a great team for dominating a league, but their set up and players aren't as geared for a 50/ 50 battle with another great team.

Pep's performances for Bayern in europe were pretty similar too, if I recall. Quarters and Semi's, but too much to get through to the final.

13 Aug 2019 13:43:20
So yesterday's 'question' or point or whatever you want to call it was about whether City or Liverpool had the strongest backup players. You answered your own question by stating that you thought Liverpool had. I disagreed with that point by suggesting it couldn't be true because City had won 3 trophies to our one last season.

I raised the point about the managers because - if, as you say, City have a worse squad than Liverpool then their manager must be better than ours because he dragged a worse team to a league and two trophies over circa 50 plus games whilst our manager, with a supposedly better team, only won one trophy in the same period.

There is no way we have as good a squad as City at this stage.

As for why have City not won the CL yet? There's plenty luck needed in cup competitions so perhaps they haven't had that yet - we certainly have in the past (e. g. 2005). Or maybe the apathy of the fans towards UEFA transmits itself to the players too much. You can bet your bottom dollar that they will be there or thereabouts this season and in many future ones. Only a matter of time for me, probably in the next five years.

13 Aug 2019 13:13:08
Absolutely ed001, was just playing devils advocate. We hit the post in first leg too.

Nothing will ever take the memory of the return leg mate and I’ve witnessed some special nights at Anfield Kate!

{Ed001's Note - ah ok.}

13 Aug 2019 14:08:24
Johnny, something tells me you like listening to the voices in your head or just looking for attention and making it look like you need spectacles in order to read what you reply to.

Or you are just a troll.

13 Aug 2019 15:11:33
People would pay more attention to me if I was a Tiger Bread. You people are just more judgemental than a Hovis-Witness.

13 Aug 2019 17:50:18
It all began in 1863 in England, when rugby football and association football branched off on their different courses and the Football Association in England was formed - becoming the sport's first governing body. Hope that answers your question max.

13 Aug 2019 18:06:43
So MaxLFC, yesterday your original post inferred that you thought our backup players were better than City's. All I implied in my response was that Guardiola must have better coaching skills than Klopp if that were true because City's backup team had helped them to win a clean sweep of the domestic titles whereas our backup team had early exits from both cups and finished second.

I'm no troll fella but I can see who has the best squad and, sadly, it isn't ours. You can run on blind faith all you like but City can afford to put out a winning second string team in early cup rounds, we can't simple as that. Therefore they have the best backups.

13 Aug 2019 21:46:51
Didnt man city have a goal disallowed from var for being millimetres offiside in the semi final?

Thats why the didn't win the
CL

Didnt we have a goal line decision against man city which was millimetres away?

Thats why we didn't win the PL.

Both great sides, just a bit ot luck really.

13 Aug 2019 22:12:45
Just to add to my above post a bit. First of all, sorry for misspelling Seville. Pep lost the last two quarterfinals to the two teams in the premier league who aren't afraid of them. City are also extremely vulnerable in the back. Again, Spurs and Liverpool are two of the only premier league clubs willing to exploit that weakness. Other clubs in Europe that get that deep in the tournament would be as well. I don't think City would have beaten Barcelona last year, and I certainly don't think they would have beaten Real Madrid the year before. Can you imagine Messi against that back line?

13 Aug 2019 22:10:10
i feel like of you start a post like then you should be responsible for replying specifically to everyone who has posted back lol.







 

 

 
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