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22 Oct 2019 00:06:17
My question is to those who are knowledgeable about the positioning of the ref for when Origi got tackled from behind.
After viewing it again you can see that his view was going to be obstructed, so I want to know why he didn't position himself or move his feet quicker to get a better view?
Is it laziness because he's been about for some time and therefore he just thinks var will keep him right. Or am I naive and expect too much from a referee?

Agree0 Disagree0

22 Oct 2019 00:11:39
I don't think you can expect a referee to see every angle I thought that's why they had assistance refs running the line and now via video.

22 Oct 2019 06:17:17
We didn’t make this much fuss about the officials last year when we stole one against West Ham. Officials are human they make mistakes like the rest of us. For them to get around the pitch and see every angle they would have to be the fittest fastest person on the pitch when 99% of the time they are probably the oldest person on the pitch. They clearly need help and var is making things worse not better. The football authorities need to get a grip of this and work out a formula that is going to help officials.

22 Oct 2019 07:49:42
It was not a mistake jk23 it was blatant dereliction of his duty a foul was committed he seen it his fourth official seen it and did not blow his whistle and give a free kick yet he seen every foul he wanted to see on a Man U player 14 to 4 fouls in favour of Man U . By the way why was a referee from Stockport ( Manchester) put in charge of this game it is like putting mike dean in at Anfield for return match not that mike dean would be that biases . Yes thing even themselves out over a season but that as a refereeing performance was so poor he should be taken off this weeks games to think through his poor decision making and his over all performance.

22 Oct 2019 12:00:25
I've never refereed a game in my life, nor played football beyond high school, for that matter. But what I do know is that refs have to make split second decisions based on a split second view and perception. So errors are bound to happen. It's called being human. The theory is that tools like VAR are brought in to minimize those errors. But if VAR is not being used properly, or even sabotaged purposely (strong words but it's my view), then you really have to direct your brickbats in that direction. No such thing as a perfect referee; nor a complete idiot who'll make 10+ errors in a game.

22 Oct 2019 12:53:54
Everybody slates the referee when in their opinion they make a mistake what what if the shoe is on the other foot? How many have the guts to do it a bet next to none there's more referees watching from the sidelines how many refs criticise a player for a missed chance answer none so why the other way.

22 Oct 2019 13:22:53
It was a mistake, he either didn’t see it or throught the contact was minimal . Move on, it happens in football. I’m sure we’ll get the benefit of such decisions during the rest of the season.

22 Oct 2019 13:31:36
Thw saying goes its swings and roundabouts.

22 Oct 2019 13:37:32
My first reaction was that Origi lost the ball and went down softly to try and milk a foul. On review, its obvious he took a knock while in possession. Atkinson could be forgiven for not noticing any foul imo.

22 Oct 2019 14:00:36
So you think Atkinson made a mistake if that was what happened then why did VAR not kick in and tell him he had made a mistake after all it is supposed to be fool proof system isn’t it.

22 Oct 2019 15:36:57
Martin Atkinson's history when refereeing Liverpool games is well known. In my opinion he is definitely biased. I don’t know where it was reported but when Stephen Gerrard who he hated most in football he said it was this referee.

22 Oct 2019 17:03:19
I don't think the ref was to blame for that particular incident it wasVAR. VAR is a laughing stock and an embarrassment to english football the ref on the whole was poor at best however I am probably bias in this opinion benny if your reading what's your opinion.

22 Oct 2019 17:52:44
Not trying to stir up new controversy, but I just read that we have won only 2 of the last 14 games that Atkinson has officiated. That's 14%. Kind of funny when you consider that we are a team with a 64% win record since the start of the 2016-2017 season. Must be the players.

22 Oct 2019 18:42:50
JK23, I actually agree with you and at the time vs WH, I said that the Mane goal was offside and should not have stood. want to know another secret? Origi from an offside position, had a chance to win the game for us but fluffed his chance and deep inside, I was happy he missed cos had he scored and we won, I would have had a hard time being happy about it.

Now on to the crux of the matter, the idea that the ref could not see all the angles is valid. One small problem with that analysis. There is VAR. VAR was supposed to fix these things BUT the powers that be, told us that VAR is only allowed to check offsides, handballs, GK off his line on penalties and red card offences the ref may have missed. It is not there to correct the ref's blatant human errors cos well, it has to be "Clear and Obvious". As if anything in football is clear an obvious. This caveat is there to protect the refs from being held accountable.

Therefore with that in mind, refs can now make mistakes with impunity in their judgment cos they know VAR will NEVER overrule them hence, they won't bother to improve their performances, which is actually the opposite thing VAR is supposed to do on paper cos in other leagues, the ref is allowed to go to the monitor and fix his mistakes after watching several angles.

They also say Origi lost the ball or lost his touch hence, negates the fact that he was clearly kicked from behind. What rule book is that from, pls? Or If that was the case, why was the ref giving utd the same soft fouls BUT with Origi, it was soft? This is the problem. No consistency. Now I don't know if Atkinson is biased. What I do know and the history bears it out is that his rank incompetence seems to often benefit our opponents, like he did on Sun and last season vs LC where he denied us a stonewall pen when Naby was clearly fouled at Anfield BUT I guess that was soft too, right?

23 Oct 2019 10:48:39
I rekon they should do what they did in the World Cup was it? Where VAR would intervene and then the ref would go to the monitor to review it and make a call themselves. I think a subjective audit of a subjective decision is stupid. This is the essence of what Klopp was talking about post-match.

Perhaps as well they can tweak the wording so that VAR can be used to advise on objective evidence only. For instance, VAR could say there was contact and then refer to the referee to then review it themselves and make their own decision to over-turn their original decision.

At the moment VAR is being used as a verification tool to further protect referees. But instead it's created more ambiguity, which is typical for football really isn't it!?

{Ed001's Note - that is exactly how it was laid out in the guidelines that the rest of the world are using. It is just here the PGMOL are ignoring what everyone else are doing. The blame must be laid at Mike Riley's door.}

23 Oct 2019 12:20:53
ed1 - I just read that the the monitors are available for premier league matches, I had no idea! I assumed cos it hadn't happened that the option isn't there. this baffles me no end. But there has to be something in their system that is a barrier. Otherwise what the heck is the VAR telling the on-field ref? lol.

They've made a black and white rule about handballs in the box that lead to goals. that is a good objective step. Regards the Origi incident, I think the VAR should simply tell the referee "there was contact, please review". then that prompts the ref to have a look and then they can decide themselves, on second inspection, is it a foul or not. Simple as. and at least the responsibility still sits with the dude holding the whistle.

{Ed001's Note - it is a complete mess mate, you are spot on that is how it should work.}

23 Oct 2019 15:03:06
If the pictures confirm what the ref says he saw then VAR won’t intervene, that’s what the guy in charge of VAR said on tv at the start of the season. I would urge anyone to watch that episode of ‘the debate’ on sky, as he outlines exactly how it’s going to be used. The problems come when your faced with the situation we saw on Sunday, one of the following must be true; Atkinson saw the contact and decided it didn’t warrant a free kick, or Atkinson didn’t see the contact and VAR still did nothing about it. Most likely scenario is option A, since that is how it was explained pre season, the problem is that VAR cannot compenate for garbage referring, the way it is currently being utilised.



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