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28 Dec 2019 21:07:06
ed001 with City fall from grace this season do you see Pep pulling his magic trick now his got to build a team and disappearing again. I don't know all his signings but the only 2 that I can think I would want in are squad are Silva LaPorte and Leroy Sane if he signed him all the rest have been very underwhelming for the money spent.

{Ed001's Note - hard to say. This is his chance to finally put to bed all the arguments and prove himself to be a top class manager, rather than just lucky to have been handed teams so much better than anyone else. If he leaves without at least attempting a rebuild then he proves all his doubters wrong.

I hope he stays, as I am very much unconvinced by him either way and would like to know for sure if he is as good as people keep telling me he is or if he has just had it all given to him. This is the first time he had had genuine competition and you only find out how good a manager is when they have to manage through adversity.}

Agree0 Disagree0

28 Dec 2019 22:55:24
Surely he can't expect (or possibly even want) to continue going from established front runner to established front runner across Europe for 3-4 years at a time for the rest of his career without settling?

At some point he has to build. The relatively small rebuild City need is surely the best shot he's going to get?

29 Dec 2019 00:18:40
I think he’s a very good coach. He took City to a level never seen before in the Premier League. I know he spent lots of money but if it were that easy Everton would be top of the league right now.
I’d like to see him take a job like Mourinho has just done. That kind of upper mid table club with potential but not the huge spending power he’s used to and see if he can turn them into serious contenders.
That would then convince me he’s one of the best in the world. Like I said he is a very good coach but it’s difficult to say how good as he always coaches the teams with the most resources which does make it easier.

{Ed025's Note - but to be fair BP the same could be levelled at klopp, without the rescources to buy the likes of VVD, alisson and keita do you think liverpool would be where they are?, its not all about the money...but 95% of it is mate..

28 Dec 2019 22:23:27
You mean he proves his doubters 'right'ed1.

{Ed001's Note - yes sorry.}

29 Dec 2019 07:59:48
ed0025 but with Klopp its hard to think of a bad signing all managers sign players. And if you compare the 2 squads when Klopp and Pep took over city where light years ahead of Liverpool. and the net spend difference between the 2 clubs if anything should have city even further ahead. for them to lose one defender a drop of so much after Pep had spent about $300m+ on his defence is not great. Am sure I read from ed001 before that pep has never left a club in a better state after leaving from when he joined even though spending a fortune. Everybody talks about VVD and Alisson money but they look a bargain at the price of some other players like slab head and Arrizabalaga.

{Ed001's Note - Ed025 is talking nonsense, Klopp never spent as big as his opposition in Germany so anyone levelling the same accusations against him is clueless. Klopp stepped into a bankrupt Dortmund and turned it around. Ed025's comment was just silly, which is very unlike him.}

29 Dec 2019 04:12:48
Ed025, no you can not. That is a poor, basic comparison, mate.
Klopp walked into a joke of a squad that was left for him. Over time, he used reasonable investment from the club as well as player sales to gradually improve the team and allow us to compete. His coaching allowed Coutinho to reach performance levels that lead to us receiving inflated sums for his purchase, which then allowed us to invest in other world class players to allow us to become the world’s best club team.
To compare this to Guardiola, who has been provided with untold riches to reinforce what was already a squad brimming with world class talent upon his arrival, is appallingly lazy.
When factoring in net spend as a whole, Everton have spent a lot more than players than Liverpool in the time Klopp has been with us.
Jurgen Klopp is streets and postcodes ahead of Guardiola, and Pep is well aware of it.

{Ed025's Note - you are a red lowel and bound to say that, dont get me wrong i think klopp is an amazing manager but the fact remains that the teams with the most money are the most successful, look at the facts..chelsea with with the sheiks...utd with the glazers and now liverpool with FSG, i could add the real madrid,s, barcelona,s and PSG,s of this world as well the story tell itself mate, and citing the likes of couts when jurgen had exactly nothing to do with his recruitment is actually a bit shallow, i dont want to get into the old my dads better than your dad scenario as thats a bit childish so cant we just say that klopp and pep are both excellent managers, not as good as carlo of course.. :)

29 Dec 2019 04:35:05
I do think that's partially true Ed025, and we have certainly benefited from heavy investment in problem areas, but signing the right players for the team, for how the manager wants to play, is in of itself a skill. City paid 60mil for Cancelo to warm the bench and a bit more to sign Rodri who, though he looks excellent, was hardly the most pressing area of concern for them. Surely Pep has to take blame for their failure to recruit a centre back to replace Kompany? By that same measure Klopp surely deserves credit for identifying and bringing in the right players for us? Add to that the improvements players have made under us - few if any have regressed or become worse under his stewardship, can the same be said of Pep at City? I know Sterling has improved, but who else has really come on in leaps an bounds at City like say Robertson, Trent, hell even the likes of Oxlaide-Chamberlain, Mane, etc.

It's true money can buy success and we have certainly spent enough to try and achieve that, but what Klopp has done has been remarkable, and even with my red-tinted glasses on, seems to put him at a higher standard than Pep. One final point: it is worth noting the massively different levels in quality between the teams they inherited and how they have progressed - we are certainly on the up and, compared to where we were, the difference is night and day. How far forward have City actually moved under Pep?

p. s. you said a while back that you think Calvert-Lewin could be top class - seems Ancelotti agrees with you! Fair play Ed, I never really saw it but he is playing well and if Ancelotti see's something then perhaps you were right.

{Ed025's Note - im not one to rain on anyones parade seano and being a massive fan of klopp,s im in awe of what hes achieved mate, i just dont think its fair to trash pep and just think you should be happy where you are without pissing on citys chips, they are 2 great teams and 2 great managers and thats why they are sitting where they are, DCL is a good young player who has bags of potential but is still learning his trade never know liverpool might just put in a bid of £200m and buy him off us, .....because thats how they operate these days mate.. :)

29 Dec 2019 04:44:13
25 - I agree but for me the point of difference is the starting point. Ya can't say Klopp has had those kind of signings from day one y'know. would Pep be the type to take the reigns of Liverpool at that same time? doubt it.

{Ed025's Note - thats a fair point faith..

29 Dec 2019 04:45:44
Difference is though ed025, klopp had to sell our best player to afford Alisson and VVD. Guardiola has just bought world class players for big money without selling, building the most expensive squad in world football. That being said, he still has to coach them to play well and city have been at a very high level for the past few years so he is a really good manager.

{Ed025's Note - they both are JK mate..

29 Dec 2019 06:05:46
No, Liverpool probably wouldn't be where we are at the moment, but Klopp has shown he can do it with limited resources before at Mainz and Dortmund, ed025.

{Ed025's Note - he had a very good grounding zpecialone, his progression has been spectacular and now he has the rescources he has at liverpool they could be at the top for a long while mate...unless carlo weaves his magic next season.. :)

29 Dec 2019 09:38:12
I used to think Guardiola was the best in the world back when he took over Barca. They were by no means a spent force but I feel like he did turn them in to a world class team.

However as someone else pointed out you see how good someone is when they are challenged and he seems to be wilting under the challenge. If he jacks it in and moves to Juve or PSG then he is obviously a chequebook manager incapable of rebuilding a team.

29 Dec 2019 10:11:50
That’s exactly what I thought Ed1. Guardiola took over a title winning team in Barcelona, title winning team in Bayern and a team at City that had won the title in the past 2 seasons. They he spent fortunes on all without losing any of their best players!
Klopp (ignoring what he did at Dortmund even) took over a failing Liverpool team with a very poor squad and completely turned it around to make them the best in Europe. He even took losing his supposed best player and turned that into a positive by using that money to massively improve the positions needed.
Klopp isn’t perfect by any means but you can’t say he’s relied on money for success that is as Ed1 said a bit silly.

{Ed001's Note - he has spent a fair whack with us to be fair, but at Dortmund and Mainz he proved he can achieve success without doing so. Pep has taken over the best team in Europe at Barca and did nothing to improve them. Bayern were the best in Europe and he turned them into just about the best in Germany. Now he took over a good City team, spent obscene amounts and made them worse.}

29 Dec 2019 11:04:28
Give pep Norwich and see if he can build and win prem with out the multi millions.

29 Dec 2019 11:24:55
I think you can go back to the start of the Premier League with this debate. The “so called “ greatest manager “ to have ever graced the planet - Ferguson - couldn’t achieve his first title win with United until he was given large amounts to spend, Martin Edwards backed him to the hilt in the transfer market in order to try and “ knock “ LFC off their perch. He was employed in 86 and didn’t win his first title until 92/ 93 - the north of the premier league.

Then you can look at Kenny with Blackburn, Wenger spent big at Arsenal in the early days, Mourhino with Chelsea.

{Ed025's Note - very much so drogie..

29 Dec 2019 12:16:57
how about klopp at Dortmund? Wouldn't say he had loads of money then, would you? Cheers.

29 Dec 2019 12:16:59
here's my basic summary of Pep.

He's a luxury manager. He's a luxury manager because he has these really detailed and complex ideas and systems that are only compatible with players from the high end of town. Because of the execution the detail requires, it looks fantastic, and combined with its intensity its able to disorientate opponents and drown them with confusion.

The problem with the system is that it almost entirely chucks conventional defending out the window, and that its defensive success relies upon domination in the opposing half. Pep has never won a UCL without Messi because the top teams in Europe are aware enough, skilled enough and brave enough to get Pep's defenders on the back foot, whereby they crumble and lose games.

Pep has never stuck around long enough to address the aforementioned when it happens, and has never rebuilt a mentally and physically weary squad. That's why he's a luxury manager. He'll stop being a luxury manager if he hangs around at City and reinvigorates them next season.

29 Dec 2019 12:27:50
"{Ed001's Note - Ed025 is talking nonsense, Klopp never spent as big as his opposition in Germany so anyone levelling the same accusations against him is clueless. Klopp stepped into a bankrupt Dortmund and turned it around. Ed025's comment was just silly, which is very unlike him. }"

I'm going to frame this quote in my room anytime I need a laugh, lol. Not only is it funny, it is FACT that can be accurately proven. What a double whammy, Ed25. Do you need some kleenex? Just banter, man.

Seriously tho, Ed25 is correct that Klopp has spent large sums of money while with us. BUT that point is severely flawed and lacks context. As many have said, Klopp took over a wretched LFC team low on confidence and took them to a domestic and European final that same season with NO signings (if you want to call Steven Caulker a signing then, be my guest) . Pep already took over the best squad in the PL in 2016 who were just two years removed from winning the PL (in 2014) and the was still intact. Not the same scenario for both managers. Also, Pep has outspent Klopp by about 200m which is insane in itself based on the team he inherited at City.

IMO, the diff. btw Klopp and Pep is that Pep has never had to worry about his players being poached by his rival or other clubs while Klopp was always vulnerable to this with Bayern (Pep poached Gotze from BVB in 2013). That is not happening now at LFC. Now that both managers can keep hold of their best players over a period of time, we are now seeing how good Klopp is and how weak Pep is, IMO. Klopp has decked him now and we still don't know if he is going to come out for the next round currently.

As Ed01 said, we shall see if Pep jumps ship if LFC win the PL or if he stays and fights. If he leaves then he is what many of us thought he was: A bully/ boxer who can't take a punch in the mouth. If he stays then we know he is ready for a fight. We shall see.

29 Dec 2019 14:27:21
Carlo has simply moved for the money, why else would you move to a club like Everton? No chance of winning anything of note. Cash cow.



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