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01 Jul 2020 12:17:52
Hey folks, first-time poster here, so go easy on me. This is not really a rumour, more of an idea and I'd be interested in your opinions.

Most liverpool fans would probably agree that we could really do with a player to cover left-back and central defence. Lovren is 30, an utter liability and a high earner. Matip is 29 soon and very injury prone. Regardless of Gomez, who I love and see as a future captain, but who has also had his fair share of injuries - our youngsters like Sepp and Hoever are just not ready to step up yet. Our potential left back options like Larouci, Lewis and Gallagher don't appear to be close enough to be playing for the first team either.

With this in mind and knowing that money is in short supply right now, I've been pondering whether it'd be in our interest to make a bid for Nathan Ake. We could offer Harry Wilson and possibly even Nate Phillips as part exchanges, maybe with some cash going their way too. We have a great relationship with Bournemouth who may be relegated and it seems Wilson may also be surplus to our requirements. Ake is only 25, a Dutch international and would offer us a quality option for both positions as well as a genuine third tactical switch - the potential of a quality back 3.

What do you lot think? Sound like a deal or would you rather keep Wilson as cover on the right for when Shaqiri moves on? I know Chelsea still have tabs on Ake, but strangely passed on bringing him back in January - perhaps because they want to focus on developing Tomori, who looked like a quality future star before being dropped. Rumours are that City are interested, but I'd be surprised if that happens as they need a right-sided partner for Laporte.

Agree2 Disagree0

01 Jul 2020 12:31:59
You mention matip is injury prone then suggest Ake who gets injured every time I watch Bournemouth? 😅 Tbh mate I think there is better options.

01 Jul 2020 12:39:04
I think City have made an offer for him.

01 Jul 2020 12:55:15
I didn't think Ake was playing that well to be honest. Good on the ball and has recovery pace, but his defensive nous seems a bit short. The only attraction is that he could cover both left back and center back, although he apparently said wants to play midfield.

If City and Chelsea are sniffing around him as is reported, he'll be stupidly expensive.

01 Jul 2020 13:09:20
If sell to buy is the policy then we need to focus on selling.
Ideally we should put a bid on Ben White.

01 Jul 2020 13:14:35
He's young, he's homegrown, he can cover multiple decisions, he'd be a fantastic backup. However, as the eds have already mentioned, Bournemouth have their very own Russian billionaire bankrolling the club, so there's no need for them to sell cheap. So as good a backup as I think he'd be, the cost would far outweigh the pros of such a deal.

{Ed001's Note - he's also a headless chicken with no ability to defend.}

01 Jul 2020 13:19:29
TheUnbearableReds - Ake has had 2 hamstring injuries. Once this season and another 5 seasons ago. Not exactly injury prone in comparison to a lot of other players. You mentioned better options. like.?

6Times - City have not yet made an offer for him and I as say, it would seem illogical considering that their best (only world class) defender is a left footed, left-sided central defender too.

Something Red - I think considering he plays for Bournemouth, he's proved that he has considerable defensive nous for a team that leaks goals, as well as an eye for scoring a goal at times. He's tactically astute, hence being trusted to play in both positions for club and country. Yes, he would be expensive, but I already countered that with a possible cash + player offer including Wilson.

{Ed001's Note - he is one of the main reasons their defence is so leaky. He has absolutely terrible positional sense and relies on pace to get him out of the errors he repeatedly makes. He also plays the same position as Virgil. Why would we consider paying a huge fee for a poor player? He is a woeful left-back, no better than Lewis or Larouci, he is only going to play centre-back if Virgil gets injured or maybe the odd cup game. It makes absolutely no sense to buy him.}

01 Jul 2020 13:24:16
I'd rather Lloyd Kelly from Bournemouth. Maybe offer someone like Herbie Kane, Kelleher or Philips as part exchange.
Kelly covers both LB and CB, will be much cheaper and more accepting of a squad role than Ake.

01 Jul 2020 13:41:37
Maybe i'm wrong on that but everytime I watch them there seems to be something wrong with him 🤔 as for other options, I'm not sure who is viable tbh so I won't just throw names about. I'm just confident there's better players than Ake for better value therefore I'd steer clear.

01 Jul 2020 14:12:06
Ed001, I disagree with your criticism of his game, as do plenty of other football commentators and possibly even Pep Guardiola, if he is indeed interested in the player.

I made it clear that Ake would be a cover for both positions and therefore would get plenty of game-time throughout the season. It would also be great to have someone more reliable than Lovren if and when Van Dijk has a knock or needs a rest - especially as he's getting close to 30 now too. I also made it clear that Wilson would be used in my fictitious transfer as a way of saving us money.

To those that suggested White or Kelly, this would be illogical as we have plenty of similar standard youngsters coming up through the ranks, such as Sepp and Hoever. White is no doubt at a slightly more advanced stage having played for Leeds and his potential also seems quite exciting - but it would suggest that we no longer have faith in our own youngsters.

The young left-backs I mentioned in my original post are clearly not as ready for potential first team games, in a way that someone like Williams on the right looks to be. Both Lewis and Larouci have also come back from long term injuries and will need time to find their feet again, perhaps getting a loan for regular games.

Clearly Ake has not been a popular choice with most of you. Which is fine, although I'm surprised. But I remember similar sentiments mentioned by fans about players such as Mane, Wijnaldum, Robertson and even Salah when they were first signed.

I asked you all to go easy as a first-timer on here. It was simply an idea that I'd hoped might create an interesting dialogue and possibly some potential better suggestions. But no-one has countered with another option of similar ilk - just simply poo-poo'd and dismissed it. Cheers guys. I feel very welcome. Seems Ed002's negative aspertions have rubbed off on the rest of you.

{Ed001's Note - yes Pep, that well known judge of defensive ability. So good he plays midfielders at the back because his only interest is whether they can pass the ball out from the back. Ake is not good enough in either position. As for Wilson, not sure how that is relevant, it doesn't mean the transfer is not costing money or that Ake won't get a signing fee or large wages.

The reason no one has bothered to come up with other options is that this has been discussed a million times before. Ake has been suggested even before he left Chelsea and this is a regular conversation that has been had, even as recently as yesterday.}

01 Jul 2020 14:33:24
Yes of course Ed001, you clearly have greater vision and tactical acumen when it comes to defenders, than one of the world's best coaches and numerous other ptofessional footballer commentators out there.

I apologise for bringing up a footballer's name that may have been mentioned before. As I said I'm new.

The point was to highlight and discuss the need to cover those positions and potentially counter it with a reluctance of getting rid of Wilson, if we do indeed sell Shaqiri. But nevermind.

Keep up the good work.

{Ed001's Note - you are that new but you make snide comments about other posters with regards to another editor's remarks rubbing off on them. Somehow makes it difficult to believe you are all that new.

As for my tactical acumen, I was merely giving an opinion, you are the one being arsey because yours wasn't accepted as gospel. You brought up a name, now you are getting all antsy because others disagree with you and are trying to make yourself sound like you know better because a few idiots on TV and a man who thinks the art of defence is to either foul or keep the ball better agree with you. All I said was I don't think it was a good idea and why. All you have done is told us he is great but have produced absolutely no thinking behind this decision of yours. Why is he great? A great defender does not need to make so many last ditch tackles, that is a sign you have been caught out. Watch Virgil, he very rarely throws himself in, Ake is the opposite. Why? Because Virgil is always in the way, they never have an open run to goal as he is there, between the two. Ake is usually chasing the attacker. He doesn't even want to be a defender, he has very publicly said he wants to play in midfield a number of times and he plays like one. Now would you care to explain what is so good about Ake? I know he is quick and got decent passing ability but he is a defender, what is good about his defending, other than that he can run very fast?

What reluctance to get rid of Wilson? Not good enough, doesn't work hard enough, no reluctance to get rid at all, he needs to go. Other teams will put up with his lack of effort so long as he creates, that won't happen at Liverpool, so it is in everyone's interests if he moves on.}

01 Jul 2020 14:59:41
You made a terrific point the other day Ed, why bother signing someone like Ake, when we have Ki Jana Hoever on the books who actually looks a real prospect. I would say that I fully trust Edwards, Klopp and Gordon to get this right either way as they get so much right.

{Ed001's Note - and that is still my thinking. I don't like buying back ups, it always feels like a waste. The way we have improved is to buy first team quality and have them fight for the place with those there and, in some cases push them onto the bench. Youth teams should provide the fillers in the squad, it is the only way they will ever get a chance.}

01 Jul 2020 15:26:34
Welcome to the site Robby. Well written post with decent points. Interesting how you mention a back three. While I wouldn’t expect Klopp to change to this, I do think Aké suits a back three and could see him doing okay at somewhere like Arsenal under Arteta as they build.
I’ve seen him at centre back only so will not pass judgement on his potential at left back or in midfield. I would say though that if he played at left back as a Robertson deputy we may lose some threat going forward as opposed to a more natural left sided player. I believe he would have to really shock me to get into our current midfield even as back up.
At centre back he is terrible aerially (57th out of 58 in the prem) according to stats, of which everyone on the site is a big fan (lol) . I think he would be maybe ok alongside Van Dijk but he would play on the unnatural right side and I believe he would be targeted in the air as to avoid Van Dijk who is unplayable. He can pass, he can run. He is not as good as Gomez or, I personally believe Matip, as a back up. On the left side, his preferred, as a back up to Van Dijk, we would massively notice the drop off in quality in the air, on the ground, organisationally and in practically every other area. He may be ok to get us through a third round fa cup tie against Everton but I don’t know if he’d want to come in as fourth choice or how much he’d ask for. I doubt Klopp or anyone for that matter knows if he is good enough on the left because he has not played there consistently for a while. As a stop gap like you say, while youngsters improve and learn he may well be ok in certain circumstances but not enough circumstances for me, personally.

01 Jul 2020 16:41:46
I wouldn't swap Wilson for ake alone, let alone with cash. I cannot understand why city are interested. I hope they are as they will be easier to beat. I have NEVER watched ake and thought "ooh, if only. "

01 Jul 2020 17:53:14
A defender is judged on his ability to defend. To head balls, spot danger and tackle when needed. Skill on the ball and passing ability are a bonus and the difference between good defenders and great defenders.

If your cb is average at defending (like ake) you have an average defender.

01 Jul 2020 19:31:47
Welcome to the fam, Robby. I have watched Ake a tonne for the past 4 years since he moved to B'mouth and really, the guy is crap defensively. I know a lot of people like CB's who can pass the ball well, are quick and are good on the ball BUT sorry if he can't defend then he needs to be nowhere near our team.

In contrast to Ake, all our CB's can do all of those things like Ake can (Lovren to a lesser degree but still more than decent) AND defend one on one and out wide in space. Also, why would we sign a defender who actually doesn't like to defend and wants to play in midfield? He is not even good at it.

Using Pep as some kind of standard to judge Ake is a joke as well. If you knew anything about Pep and his history, coaching the defence is NOT his thing cos he does not believe in it. He believes that the best way to defend is to retain possession. Well, that can happen if you play in La Liga where no one bothers to get at you that much.

In England, teams have money, can get good players and coaches who will figure you out and punish your evey weakness. I mean, there's a reason City are a shambles defensively this season. They have worked him out.

All in all, Ake is poor, average at the very best and is nowhere near the quality to sit on LFC's bench as a CF ahead of the 4 we already have cos well, he can't defend. Peace!

01 Jul 2020 21:07:33
Lovren is 5 times the cb that ake is. Lovren is prone to the odd lapse but is also capable of putting in wofld class performances. I'll always remember him having CR7 in his back pocket. And his header in the europa league. I remember when he had a really shaky few weeks but we voted him lfc player of the month? What an amazing fan base we have to do that. And he went on to play extremely well that season (and had Ronaldo in his pocket)

I think it's time for him to move on. Id live him to stay but it's selfish. He has a lot to offer still but gomez is just much better.

The only thing going for ake is that he is Dutch. And could partner vvd. BUT, vvd is left sided and never misses a match. Why on earth would we splash big money on another left sided cb? Forget that Nathan is crap, it just makes zero sense.

01 Jul 2020 21:41:06
Ake ended up scrambling on Newcastle 2nd and 3rd goals tonight cos he couldn't position himself properly. On another occasion, he lost his man because he stopped on the edge of the area to look at a shot hit the bar and rebound straight to the guy he was supposed to be marking, who had kept playing and followed in. Leaving Ake to rush in after him.

Every senior defender we have (yes, including the 'utter liability' Dejan Lovren) would've done better.



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