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20 Aug 2020 20:20:03
Ed 02 I'm confident you can answer this.
I'm sure I read If Coutinio wins the champions league we're due extra money from Barca. My question is does that still count as he's on loan. Be a severe kick in the teeth for Barcelona considering he helped inflict their most embarrassing defeat in the competition then they have to pay us for the pleasure. Double kick in the nuts if true.

{Ed002's Note - The English papers say it is transferable but my understand is not. Plus, Liverpool have already overaccounted for the sale, borrowed against it and spent the money - right now they are trying to sort out the accounts.}

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Aug 2020 20:37:33
Thanks for the quick response Ed02. I had a feeling it would only count if Barcelona won it but it’d be extremely harsh and a little bit funny if it didn’t. Anyway hope the lad wins it despite how he left. Mostly because I loved him when he played for us and a little bit cause I can’t stand Neymar.

20 Aug 2020 21:14:35
The Echo claims that of the £36 willon in adds on Liverpool are only owed £5 million, which is due if Coutinho reaches 90 games for Barcelona.

{Ed002's Note - They have been misled.}

20 Aug 2020 23:51:39
Liverpool have sold on the remainder of the Coutinho 'debt' to a 3rd party.

21 Aug 2020 00:48:35
So to add to that, as far as I understand it, Liverpool will get no more money from the Coutinho sale. Time to move on people.

21 Aug 2020 05:11:22
I agree scootinio. I know he put on the bad back and forced a move and as fans it's hard to see past that. But that's not the only thing he did at our club. He scored some of the best goals this or any other team has ever scored. He sunk man City and as a result we really should have won the league. Liverpool had a second fab four with couts and he was lennon!

I think it was excellent business getting the amount we did, imo he's better than neymar who of course went for 200mil. His leaving forced us to play more as a team and we became better for it. But we had no idea it would pan out like it did. I don't care what people say now, but not one Liverpool fan I know wasn't checking the papers everyday, hoping against hope that we would be able to hold Barcelona off and keep our best player. The sale also made us more affluent and we've made some unbelievable signings since he left. It was a joy watching him evolve from a young lad who lacked confidence but was clearly full of potential onto the lad we gave the ball to. I remember Hendo and milner passing the ball 3 feet to him in the centre circle many many times, so the little magician could make some magic happen.

Vvd and mane (sure there are more) did exactly the same thing to their clubs to get a move to liverpool but we don't question their morals so the hate for coutinio for forcing a move is subjective. And vvd and mane were not Liverpool fans. It wasn't their boyhood dreams to play for Liverpool at anfield (as far as I know) . Coutinio was a Barcelona fan and it was his dream to play at the nou camp.

I know he earns a fortune for playing a game. But it's not his fault he's a naturally talented lad and the game is so popular and they make so much money. But, I feel sorry for him a little. Barcelona is a team of egos and pip isn't like that. I think his Barcelona career may have been very different if his mate neymar was still there to back him up and give him some confidence. He didn't just become a worse player overnight, he didn't suffer a major injury, so it must be psychological.

I understand he wanted to leave at the beginning of the season but klopp and Co managed to persuade him to give us a bit longer. And if we had a chance of the league he would have stayed until the end of the season. He was clearly frustrated that we might not let him go, and transfer business is a funny old thing. Barcelona could have given up on him, they may have spent that fortune elsewhere and he may have missed out on his dream move. I don't hate him or even dislike him in the slightest. As it was we were way off the pace come January so he was allowed to leave. He had a massive part in salah scoring so many goals in that record breaking season. People say he was best on the left of the front 3, but I remember very clearly everyone here really looking forward to him playing in midfield and pulling the strings from there. I remember it very well because I wrote a post questioning whether he had the physical attributes to operate in the middle and I said he wasn't any good at tackling, and I was shot down. He had the best days of his career at liverpool (so far, still believe he will find his feet and get back to his best) and a few months after he left we were in the European Cup final. He had been excellent in the champions league as well. Perhaps we'd have won it? I was a big lallana fan but I would much rather have had pipco come on for salah.

I don't care who wins the champions league. I haven't watched one game, not even highlights, since we went out. But I'd like coutinio to win it. I think it could take the pressure off him and give him the confidence he so clearly needs.

I don't know how arsenal are financially, and I don't know if Barcelona and koeman want to sell coutinio, but if it were possible and I were arteta I'd be going full in for couts. They have some very good forwards, hell, world class. And even pepe has potential (playing in front of a piss poor midfield and a lot of pressure on him) I knew he was fast and a good dribbler but he is a sweet finisher. If they had goals in midfield and someone who could pick a pass I think they'd be challenging for top 4. If they got pipco and a high class cb and a maybe a better gk I think they'd definitely be top 4.

Isn't it strange. Our best footballer left and we got better. I don't think it was just we changed our style and worked more as a team. I think we were always going to get better and better under klopp. I think we would have carried on getting better whether he stayed or not. That day he didn't turn up at anfield (I think we were at home that day) with his "bad back" Andy Robertson made his full debut and we started to play with our flying fullbacks (I think it may have been pre Alexander arnold) and that had a massive effect on our evolution. He whipped in cross after cross. I think that had just as much an affect on our improvement as Philip coutinio leaving. And also, didn't we sign van djike in the same window that coutinio left? Perhaps that had some affect on our improvement? ;)

{Ed0666's Note - I didn’t realize you’re Written English was so good Mr Coutinho?

21 Aug 2020 05:38:10
Love your posts, Robbie, but you are gushing over a player who had one excellent game for every three average ones. Phil could slide rule a pass, dribble, and score worldies on his better days but was a passenger in other games and easily man-marked out of the match. He was a decent player for us but would be fighting Origi and Shaqiri for space on the subs bench with our current side.

And as for “ He scored some of the best goals this or any other team has ever scored”
Maybe lay off the turps mate 😂.

21 Aug 2020 06:55:06
Coutinho, very good player. Barcelona didn't really make enough out of him. Let's be honest they are shocking.
His cameo roles for Bayern still show he has ability and he is head and shoulders above Origi and Shaq. I would be more confident seeing Coutinho coming of the bench the 2 players mentioned.
Never going to happen tho but that doesn't mean we should down play his abilities just because he left under a bit of a cloud. Some of our players have done the same to their previous clubs remember.

21 Aug 2020 07:00:45
Yeah, Robbie, I think you're overdoing it a bit. Yes, Coutinho was a special player but let's not make a mountain out of a mole hill. You're forgetting that out of his 4 years with us, the first year was spent playing only a half each game, to build up his fitness, the first 2 years were spent under the dominance of our "Triple S" strike force (Sterling, Suarez and Sturridge) and that the last two years he shone brightest when Firmino was on the pitch with him. Would you take Coutinho and his 54 goals in 201 appearances or the person who replaced him (Mane) with literally double the scoring rate from the same position?

Ironically, Coutinho's greatest impact will have been with his departure rather than his arrival, because it's with his leaving for Barcelona that the team was able to go out and buy Alisson and Van Dijk. And this purchase of these two players will impact the team for a minimum of 5 years and possibly up to 10, even. Far more more than Coutinho could have hoped to have done or do. He is undoubtedly a talented player and nobody can question that, but that's what his legacy for LFC will be.

21 Aug 2020 07:09:33
Coutinho better than Neymar? Give me strength.
The guy is an above average player, not much more than that.

21 Aug 2020 08:22:44
LowelLFC who you talking about Neymar or Coutinho ha, never known a more overrated player as Neymar, him or Pogba.

21 Aug 2020 08:37:05
Coutinho is like an ex. When he was with us we loved him and he could do no wrong. Then as soon as he left the fine line between love and hate was crossed and he’s now the worst person we could imagine. Personally I loved the lad when he was with us but him moving allowed us to bring in players like VVD and Allison etc and the rest is history. Personally I wish him no bad luck and I’d like to see him find a club and do well there. Just not well enough that they beat us.

21 Aug 2020 08:40:25
Coutinho would 100% be playing ahead of origi and shaq. Remember coutinho would have those runs of inconsistent games when playing alongside benteke, balotelli, Lambert, ibe, origi and sturridge over the hill among others and the season with Suarez or when playing with firmino mane or salah he was genuinely top class. He can't be remembered only for the years we had an attack with zero pace and zero prolific scorers. Henderson was also going missing during those times, firmino struggled before mane and salah arrived. The season we bought in mane and the first 6 months of the next season it was a fact that coutinho was one of our best performers and was regarded as one of the best players in his role which saw Barcelona offer that kind of money. We were all disappointed that he wanted out and I hardly recall any one saying we were better off at the time. Yes he's struggled since but to assess his years in a Liverpool shirt only on his form when playing in those dire sides is unfair. Henderson, Gerrard, Alonso, Torres all had the same bad patches when the players around them were also poor quality. Lallana, emre can, Joe Allen, Lucas leiva weren't the midfield calibre he was being expected to link with that static attack. Gerrard, sterling, suarez disappeared and we only had coutinho to rely on. Fans got annoyed when he didn't save the day every week with magic moments instead of being critical of origi or sturridge offering us even less goals up front. Mane first season was just as patchy as coutinho with form while firmino was far away from taking a spot in Brazil's 11 over coutinho and barely making the squad even. Eden hazard had bad years at Chelsea when often relied on also to carry them but he got remembered for the magic moments he gave them not just when he didn't save the day after everyone else was just as bad. Coutinho scored against Dortmund and United in that memorable klopp first season along with a double at Stamford bridge, tore city to pieces home and away, scored worldies against spurs, scored in league cup final, got later winner at city which nearly won us the league, late winners against stoke Southampton palace in games destined for 0-0 Which woukd have klopp under pressure. Last game of season needing 4th place MOTM runs the show. Scores regular crackers each year in arsenal CITY spurs Chelsea games and Merseyside derby stunners too as often claiming MOTM. He's prolific in our CL group games too before he leaves midway that season. We then play many league games where every fan is screaming for the no.10 midfielder when we can't find other ways through. CL final we lose salah and gane over, lallana and emre can are both used as substitutes but I know at that moment every one of ye would have wished coutinho was an option. When we played city at etihad and had plenty of ball around the outside of there box we would have taken couts over gini Milner hendo who at the time were getting so much stick as we also laboured to draws against United and Everton creating nothing and fans dying for someone to crack a few 20 yard shots. We've certainly grown into a stronger force without coutinho but stop this bitter talk that he was never great for us when there were many times ye all adored what he produced to turn a game. Always the big games we won he was the one who made it happen, always coutinho was crucial every time we won a big game before our team was anyway strong. Don't forget those moments even though they were in times not wanting to be remembered. Instead I hear origi get classed as a hero for a few tap ins in 4 or 5 weeks where he enjoyed being the right man in right place. Short ruthless memories.

{Ed001's Note - he was not top class ever. Never has been, never will be. He was inconsistent alongside Suarez too. People have such highlight reel memories they forget anything that doesn't suit them. Always big games? Deluded nonsense and completely untrue. He would vanish in as many big games more often than he turned up for us. We are better without him and him going improved us, long before we bought Alisson and VVD. He is not that good and doesn't suit the way we play. Bringing him off the bench would be all he is good for and he would not be what we need for that either, especially not at his wages.}

21 Aug 2020 09:01:08
Pretty sure vvd arrived in the same window that couts left? I could be wrong. And that had a massive effect on our team.

Also mane wasn't his replacement, they'd already had a season or two in the same team but mane played on the right then. But we signed salah, mane went over to the left and coutinio dropped deeper. They were the fab 4.

Listen, I wouldn't swap 2 pipcos for Bobby Firmino. But, they were amazing together. Worked really well.

Yes, we played more as a team when he left and that made us a much better side. But there were other factors that season: it was klopp's second full season, and it was looking like "his team" and not the brodge's. the signing of mo salah who broke the record of the world class Ian rush. Mane moved to the left allowing him to cut in and score more goals. Vvd arrived and Andy Robertson took the woeful, but likable alby moreno's spot. And even karius took migs' spot. Admittedly that is a very minor improvement. If indeed it was an improvement (it was really. Karius wasn't as bad as he'll always be remembered, coz of his cl antics. But he was poor) Trent made his break through. Henderson seemed to get past those niggling injuries. A lot happened the year coutinio left. Like I said, I think vvd arrived in the same window. It was the signings of fab, keita and Alisson that the pipco money helped finance.

I wouldn't go back. He doesn't fit into our team anymore. Not industrious enough for the midfield and not on the same level as mane and salah. But he was at the time. There is a reason we just gave him the ball.

And who said pc didn't score some of the nicest goals you'll see? Come off it. Say what you like about him, have opinions, but he scored a lot of absolute worldies. He even made tap ins look classy.

On the first year or two he was finding his feet with us. Lacked confidence and was perhaps in Gerrard shadow. It seemed when stevie left pip was "the man"

I don't know why I'm banging on about him really. I'm not a massive fan. But I don't hate him, and I don't think he should be written off as not on the same level as shaqiri and origi. He was our best player for a year or two. And I still feel he'll get back to his best. He needs to be somewhere where he is loved. He was loved here and it reflected in his form. Too much pressure at barca, too much ego. And not really a bayern player. They didn't like him enough to buy him permanently. When he played here, in the 18 months before he left. Us fans and the media conceded that our only world class player was coutinio. I don't know if its possible to go back and look at posts around the time Barcelona were hunting him, but if you can, you'll see a very different attitude to coutinio than us being displayed now.

Don't cane me, I'm not a coutinio lover (I was) but I'm not a coutinio hater either. That's basically what I wanted to say but went right off on one.

One more thing; we all agree we have probably the best manager in the game in klopp. And klopp really wanted him to stay. That's why he was pulling the bad back rubbish. Klopp has said many times "we did everything we could to persuade him to stay"

{Ed001's Note - you are correct VVD did arrive in the same window, but Couts had been missing for months with a 'back' injury and we were better without him. He never fitted into the team, he was always being shoehorned in, as he had to be at both Barca and Bayern. That is why he was dropped to the bench. Coutinho was a highlight reel hero who failed to make a consistent impact on games for anything more than a few minutes here and there. Why is it writing him off by comparing him with Origi and Shaqiri? They are both extremely talented players who have only had limited inconsistent impacts on the team, just like him. The difference was he stood out more because he was playing in a weaker team, they are having to be compared to truly world class talents instead. Origi has stepped up when it mattered, Coutinho rarely did the same, usually quite the opposite. Big games would see him running the ball down blind alleys or wellying it into the stands from 30 yards far more often than he produced anything helpful. He was an extremely frustrating player that fans loved because they only remembered the highlights and forgot the many wasted opportunities.}

21 Aug 2020 09:38:08
To be honest I think Coutinho gets a raw deal with regards to the bad back. The mrs has been nagging me to revamp the garden all summer and amazingly I’ve had a similar mystery back issue to Couts so my sympathy is with him. Good news is the back issue only flares up when the garden is mentioned and doesn’t stop me attending the pub.

21 Aug 2020 09:43:25
It's a good point about origi and shaqiri playing in a much better team so it being harder to shine ed01. Fair play

But two things. A, he is one of the most expensive players ever (I know that doesn't mean anything concrete but it suggests a few things) and B, (pls don't get angry) I clearly remember you calling couts world class when he was with us.

Ya know, teams don't take a punt on a player at well well over a hundred million pounds. Barcelona saw something worth betting on. Admittedly it's probably one, among many, of the reasons they are floundering.

I'm getting drawn into a coutinio argument. All I really wanted to say is I don't dislike him. But then people say he was useless. Fair enough to say he was nowhere near as good as the hype suggested, like you're saying ed01, we've all got our opinions. but people saying he was rubbish, drew me into sticking up for someone I never even think about unless I see a picture in the paper. It's been years since I wanted him in our team. I'd rather talk about our new left back.

{Ed001's Note - you are wrong, I have never, ever referred to Couts as world class. Barca's recruitment has been woeful for years, so not sure why you think then wasting so much is meaningful.}

21 Aug 2020 10:41:11
Don't have the time to read all of the above but after a quick glance, ed1, spot on.

The best thing about coutinho leaving for me was how much we improved as a team but not only that, we saw our Firmino improve dramatically who in my opinion is the cog in our team.

People have their own opinions but was he ever missed when he was out injured? Not really, no and he isn't missed now. He's a good player but that's as far as it goes for me he is way below the quality Liverpool have right now.

Let's not forget to mention he was hardly a team player, he was an individual who cared more about himself other than the team and to me that's huge. I'd rather have somebody with half the talent who is a team player than him.

21 Aug 2020 10:54:10
My point about the high transfer value is, I dunno, teams have been known to spend around 50mil and that player flop. But 50mil isn't "punt money" it's serious money. I mean keita would've been an example 6 months ago, but he looks to have finally turned a corner. But it happens a lot. 50 mil is a lot of cash for any team to spend. And doubly so if he flops.
Now I don't know the exact fee for pip, but the papers say around 142mil. I'm sure you and ed02 will know better than me. But if its 120mil 150mil, that's not "take a punt" money. That's crazy cash. His form clearly shows that it was a mistake (almost definitely. I say "almost" because he is still a Barcelona player so still has a chance, as it stands, to turn it around) no one spends that sort of money for a mediocre player? Im not saying he's world class. But his form must have been world class or very very near it for a team to spend that type of money.

I'm not saying it very well. He's what? The third most expensive player of all time? The second? That suggests he is a world class talent. It certainly suggests he can play. Admittedly it also suggests Barcelona over pay for their players, it suggests their scouting hasn't been amazing and it suggests the world of football transfers has gone mad.

And also, the fact very intelligent footballers like Henderson, milner, wjinaldum would just give him the ball. Even if he were just 5 ft away. That's our captain, who only wants the best for our team. They wouldn't of done that if they didn't think pip had a better chance than them to make something happen.

Apologise if you didn't say he was world class. I could have sworn it was you but I was pretty new to the site back then, it Must've been one of the other eds. No shame in saying he was world class. Klopp said it, his team mates said it. I definitely thought he was world class.

I really don't think his form this last two years is because he can't play very well. I don't think he is the type of personality that fits in at Barcelona, who famously have a dressing room of big egos.

Anyway! I don't care either way. I never think about the lad. He forced his way out and next year we won the champions league, beating his team of egos! And I LOVED IT! I just don't think he was rubbish for us. And neither did the fans.

21 Aug 2020 11:45:15
You clearly don't care Robbiesline lol after you have written a dissertation on the lad 😂😂😂😂
. I liked Couts but better team without him for sure.

21 Aug 2020 13:56:24
Agreed bigbaddom. That's all I was ttying yo say really.

And I don't think us getting better was solely coz he left. In fact I think the arrival of vvd and Robbo probably had more of an effect. But we did improve that season. Salah also scored 44 goals that season. I'm not saying another word about him. He made his bed, he can lay in it. His kids had scouse accents apparently. I dunno if that means anything.

He's a good player who has lost his way. End of.

21 Aug 2020 14:09:40
The end.

21 Aug 2020 14:28:51
Robbiesline, I think it's unanimous, based on your dissertations, that you deserve to be awarded with the Ph. D in Coutinhology. Congrats, well earned. 😁.

21 Aug 2020 15:18:41
Lol aray.
And salah, you say he wasn't a team player. But don't you remember what they were dubbed?

The Fab Four. They were amazing together. I bet if you look at every season that klopp has been here, the season that we scored the most goals was that season when couts left in January. That was partly because our defence and goal keeper were shocking. Good cbs but no leadership. Don't you remember being 2 0 up and not feeling safe? Had to get 3 clear goals before it felt remotely safe

And back to the transfer fee. How many players do we have that teams would offer 125mil?

Vvd (160mil) {easily, maybe 200mil}
Trent maybe (partly coz he has so much football left in him) {90mil}
Salah (140mil)
Mane. (180mil)
Bobby (80mil) { would've been 100mil 2 years ago}

Someone said that he was bang average and would be behind shaq and origi. That isn't true. I wouldn't swap coutinio for origi. Even though I think pip is better technically.

Transfer fees do give us some idea of a players worth. No one is ever going to offer us 140mil for origi. Not half that. More like a quarter. But I repeat, I wouldn't swap origi for coutinio.

And ed01, I'm hope you don't think I'm trying to argue with you mate. It's an interesting debate. Wasn't couts on the bench to teach him a lesson for his wanting out? Trying to make him WANT to play for liverpool. And don't you think the fact that Jurgen tried tooth and nail to keep him, despite huge sums of money being waved at us, shows us his worth? I don't think he's made one mistake with personnel. People say klavan was rubbish. But he was cheap, left footed (I think) and actually came really good towards the end of his spell. Karius was pretty poor, but was a minor improvement on migs.

When I think of pip, it's always that winner at city. He didn't go missing that game. And also utd

Ive got another question for you ed01 dude. And the reds; Do you think couts regrets leaving? Do you think if he could turn back time he would choose to stay at liverpool?

{Ed001's Note - Couts was on the bench after refusing to play. I really don't care if he regrets it or not, he made his choice. By the way, Trent would be worth far more than that, you are massively undervaluing a player that would break the transfer record if sold.}

21 Aug 2020 15:27:38
Sorry to keep banging on

Does anyone think we wouldn't have improved if we'd kept coutinio? Despite vvd and Robbo, aoc's brilliant breakthrough season. Trent's break through and salah's first season seeing him bang in 44 goals.?

21 Aug 2020 16:23:09
Wow, do you really think so? About Trent. I guess you're right. He's not just a right hack is he? I heard way back in the 40s 50s etc, teams used to play with 5 forwards. Trent is a bit like that, and Robbo. They do far more offensively than defensively.
I absolutely love Trent. I can't get over the freekicks where he's running to the cameras before the balls cleared the wall. What a golden boy. I admit, my vague estimation was because he's a right back, and they don't go for huge money traditionally. Awb and the lad at city, walker. Are they the most expensive fbs? But klopp and Co have revolutionised the fbs. Omg, I can't wait for the new season! Can't wait for the friendlies even!

Eds and reds - what value would you put on Andy Robertson? 90mil?

21 Aug 2020 18:54:23
Couts is history. The End.



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