21 Aug 2020 13:05:57
Just reading on the utd page about the debate about Gerard, Scholes, and lampard. They all seem to think the Scholes was streets ahead of the other 2 including tackling. I know he was an exceptional player but I think our Stevie was better as an alround player. what's everybody's opinion on this subject.

21 Aug 2020 13:26:34
Wouldn't pay too much attention. As it goes it's always United fans saying Scholes is the best, Liverpool saying Gerrard and Chelsea saying Lampard. All were exceptional players but all different in their own sense. You could argue any one is better than another player. More frustratingly is on twitter where Alphonso Davies has a nice dribble past Semedo (who was awful that game) and then is apparently the best LB in the world. Ridiculous is a word.

21 Aug 2020 13:31:18
Gerrard more goals, more left foot goals, more headed goals, more free kicks scored than Scholes, more assists, more tackles than Scholes, better % of tackles won, less fouls, less yellow cards, more 50/ 50s won by a street than Scholes. (According to Premierleague. com)

I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift.

Scholes was a very good player tho 😆.

21 Aug 2020 13:39:02
Seedorf was better then all three put together.

21 Aug 2020 13:43:53
It's interesting to read the comments on Alphonso Davies. He's 19 and yet he's being anointed as world-class already. As if world-class refers to one season or one game. Yes, he's talented but let him show it over a career or even half a career, before you set down "the ultimate best" crown on his head.

21 Aug 2020 13:50:23
Gerrard all day and I'm not biased. Scholes was decent but I think underrated as a youngster and overrated after that goal against Tunisia. If lampard had conceded that stevie was better England would've been better.

21 Aug 2020 14:57:19
There pluses and minuses for both. On the Liverpool page to some SG is a God on the Utd page Scholes is a God to some.

21 Aug 2020 15:09:14
I'm pretty sure Ed1 did an article on this.
I rate Lampard as one of my favourite CMs ever in the prem and probs the best goalscoring midfielder the league has ever had.
Gerrard was a beast.
Scholars was obviously good but I was never that bothered.

{Ed001's Note - you are correct I did a Football Comparisons article on the trio a while back. I have linked it there so you can look if you like.}

21 Aug 2020 15:16:03
Seedorf is still a quality player too JJ. I've seen him and Gerrard play in a few legends games and they both still run the show. Head and shoulders above the rest.

21 Aug 2020 15:23:39
Irish rover I just posted what you posted on the utd page, can't wait to see the response.

21 Aug 2020 16:06:54
You really know your football eh ed01 (Well of course you do, it's your job! ) I didn't disagree with a single word man.

I think as stevie often played in the weaker team, it made him stand out more. And do you not think that the reason Gerrard had to track back and win those sliding tackles, was because he often had lesser players around him? I thought he was good defensively, because of those slide tackles. But I too was probably ball watching.

And I get excited when England get into a tournament, but not that bothered during qualifiers and friendlies. Was the problem with those three because the national team was divided in those days? The Liverpool Boys stuck together, Chelsea too and utd. Because, like you say they're all different. They could've been unreal, all world class imo. And they had Rooney in front of them, also world class. And I think Owen, fowler, Heskey, cole (Andy) was shearer still about in those days?

Digressing - is it true that we were going to sign shearer from Blackburn. Can't remember where I heard it, but houllier said to Owen "would you like shearer as your partner"

I tell you another smart comparison ed01, fowler, Owen, Rooney, heskey and Cole. My fave is god, but he seemed to be behind Andy Cole. Am I getting my eras mixed up?

Cool article that. I like the conclusion that there is no conclusion. The debate will continue. Very interesting ed01. Again thanks for sharing your insane knowledge of the game. I can't get my head around the way you look at games objectively, despite being an avid red. Like the way I saw Gerrard as a great defensive mf, but you somehow see the bigger picture, that he had to make those slide tackles because he was caught out of position. I still wonder was it because of slightly lesser players around him?

{Ed001's Note - Gerrard was very prone to ball watching, it was not the players around him that were at fault for all those last ditch tackles. Rafa did not like him in central midfield for precisely that reason.

You make a good point, it was very much a divided camp and that could not have helped at all. There was no reason for the divide either, it was silly, they should have been able to be friends and still compete against each other for their clubs.

We nearly signed Shearer a couple of times. Including before he went to Blackburn.

I have added the Fowler, Owen etc to the list for a comparison article as well.

As for the being objective, I am not at the time I watch it, it is afterwards when I think about the game that I look at it objectively.}

21 Aug 2020 16:43:08
Oh cool, do you record games and re watch them?

Ill look forward to that comparison ed01. Thank you.

And it seems like the national team have really worked at getting rid of the divide. They're performing better despite not having players of the same quality.

{Ed001's Note - I used to, nowadays there are so many games on and I have access to WyScout so I don't need to.

The national team realised it needed to change, but the big help was the retirement of Fergie, who worked hard to create a 'them and us' mentality amongst his team to achieve more success.}

21 Aug 2020 17:11:32
Yeah, that makes sense Ed, about fergie.

I think with Hendo captain. Trent, gomez, curtis Jones and elliot in the future. England could finally win something.

I'm all about Liverpool though. I'm obsessed. I'll support England. I'm just as Scottish as I am English though. I think with Robbo as captain and they have a fairly young team. They have a chance of qualifying for something. Did Scotland not make the play offs? Have they not been played? Doesn't matter if no one knows, I'm too wrapped up in a red blanket that has the word champions in small gold letters all over it. Oh, its been scrapped right? The euros?

{Ed001's Note - national teams don't interest me to be honest. I will watch the games if I can be bothered but I don't go out of my way.}

21 Aug 2020 17:46:44
Same ed01. The games are too cagey. And people in pubs and in the street, who know Jack about footy, pretending to get into it, when really it's just an excuse to get pissed and throw bear about. I guess it brings people together. I have to admit, if we get out of the groups i start to get excited.

{Ed001's Note - the only we I care about is Liverpool. No national team is a we for me.}

21 Aug 2020 18:37:31
Gerrard probably had more technical ability overall than Scholes (Scholes was a better passer, but Gerrard was better at most other things requiring technique) and was a better tackler, but Scholes read the game and understood the role of a central midfielder a lot better. Gerrard lacked patience, he was always looking to get forward or try killer passes whether they were on or not. It helped make him a brilliant attacking midfielder at his peak, but irresponsible in central midfield. You'd get away with it sometimes, but not all the time.

Ed001 mentions that Rafa kept Gerrard out of central midfield, but Houllier played him on the right a lot too whilst McAllister was at the club.

As for Owen, Fowler and Heskey, the more I look back at that period the more it seems obvious to me that Houllier bet everything on playing to the strengths of the most limited of the three to the detriment of all else and it was hardly surprising that it all went bad.

21 Aug 2020 18:51:06
OP, there are Utd fans who actually believe that Gerrard was better than Scholes. Lampard does not even get into that conversation, IMO. And the idea that Scholes was a better tackler is laughable when you consider that thru out Scholes' career he was notorious for not being able to tackle a chair.

And by the way if Gerrard were inferior to both Scholes and Lampard, why did their respective managers at the time in Fergie and Mou want to sign him. Mou esp., moved heaven and earth to sign SG at Chelsea and nearly got his man. Fergie dreamed of signing SG at Utd and admits it openly.

If any Utd or Chelsea fan comes at you with that mess again, just repeat the paragraph above and that should keep them quiet.

21 Aug 2020 19:55:17
That last paragraph was pretty deep something red. Do you mean Heskey?

And ed01, I know what I'm tryling to say about your objectivity when watching games. It's the ability to think in the abstract. I believe I can, and you obviously can. Some people are absolutely incapable of it. Cannot see things from someone else's point of view. Or step back and and turn things round in your mind.

What is Wyscout?

{Ed001's Note - WyScout is a scouting network that football clubs, agents and scouts use to look at players. There are others, such as Scout7 and InStat. Lots of footage and stats of players around the world.}

21 Aug 2020 20:26:12
Ooh, I might check that out ed01.

{Ed001's Note - they require subscription, but it is worth it.}

21 Aug 2020 20:27:18
Robbie - I mean Owen. I honestly think he ended up being the most limited of the three.

Heskey is viewed as a joke these days by a lot of football fans, but he was well capable of scoring goals when he arrived. He could also bully defenders, drop deep and even fill in on the left reasonably well (although when his pace went he lost any effectiveness on the wing) . Owen relied entirely on his pace and his low center of gravity to snake away from defenders. And obviously Fowler was technically miles ahead of both of them.

And by 2002-03 Owen wasn't even really dribbling at defenders any more and had nothing in his locker other running in behind for flick ons all the time. Totally one dimensional. Whilst Heskey had any predatory instinct beaten out of him in favour of providing those flick ons and Fowler had been forced out. Both Owen and Heskey could've been better players with a different coach, imo.

22 Aug 2020 10:32:57
And same about Liverpool. Its why I love this site. I'm not a scouser, so maybe that makes me a bit less of a Liverpool supporter, but it doesn't feel that way. I'm crazy about Liverpool fc and have been since I was 8/ 9. I get a chance go mix with with fellow supporters and talk about my passion. I'm going to make a pilgrimage when the boys display the trophy on the bus.

It's going to be epic and i can't wait to see the boys in the flesh. I met a group of scousers a few weeks ago, on holiday down my way. Liverpool were playing Chelsea and it was 3 1 when I bumped into them. One of em knew curtis Jones. Went to school with him. He wasn't bs-ing coz he couldn't remember his name.

He was going "I went to school with a Liverpool player, he just made his debut. " And he was saying "his name is something James" I was stumped, I thought he must've been talking about the u23s, then the guy said "he scored" and I said "curtis Jones! " he said he was a quiet lad (which I liked) and was just a magician with the ball. I shook his hand, and he'd shook curtis' hand who would have shook firmino's hand, who shook Gerrard's hand.