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10 Oct 2020 10:06:05
How does everyone feel on dropping/ resting firmino for a game or 2

Just seems to need a rest to bring him back rejuvenated and better for the team

I think his form has dipped and hoping maybe he just needs some time out

Never a good time to try this with Everton next but I think everyone would benefit.

Agree5 Disagree0

10 Oct 2020 10:20:27
He scored 2 last night, keep him in the team.

10 Oct 2020 10:27:01
nah. the only 'form' people say has dropped is goal scoring which is fair enough. but the results have been good with him in the squad and we all know what he brings to our system and opening opportunities for salah and mane. So no I wouldn't be dropping him anytime soon.

10 Oct 2020 10:44:57
Hopefully the 2 goals against Bolivia have given him that confidence boost in front of goal. A match winner against Everton will sort him right out for the rest of the season.

10 Oct 2020 10:56:26
He’s undroppable on here mate. No chance of many saying he should be dropped because of what he brings to the team that no one else could do.

10 Oct 2020 10:57:07
His form has dropped though, his passing hasn't been as good and his finishing has been dire. Having said that I'm not sure id want to drop him because when he's good he's on fire. I've called him out for not scoring before I think the season we finished second and he went on to score loads. Of he is dropped though I'd like to see Shaq play in his position not minamo.

10 Oct 2020 11:52:16
He has been well below his best however I think it’s a confidence thing and hopefully a goal or two will get him back. I would be concerned though if I was Taki as eventually he will wonder what he has to do - but he’s not quite at that point yet I’d imagine.

We all want bobby back at his best.

10 Oct 2020 11:53:16
have people stopped to think that they are casting their anxiety onto Firmino? What is all this talk of him lacking confidence etc?

10 Oct 2020 11:54:47
Forget the scoring bit, he brings so much else to the party. His passing was short against villa but he was trying all the right things. I did wonder if they had kept the pitch deliberately dry to interrupt our passing. Anyway, dropping Bobby? No way.

10 Oct 2020 12:16:25
If we all take our tinted glasses off his form has dropped and he's not saying particularly well, like I said previously I don't think dropping is the answer. Ed25 usually gives a decent unbiased view on our players so I'd be interested to hear what he thinks about Bobbys form at the minute.

{Ed025's Note - i have said for a while hes not producing the goods pegleg, he works his butt off dont get me wrong, but his effectiveness has dwindled and he seems to be busy doing nothing at the moment, maybe give him a rest and try mini for a few games while he charges his batteries mate..

10 Oct 2020 12:47:38
IMO and maybe Ed01 can help here, Bobbie has consistently scored goals for LFC since his time here and the numbers show that. In all his years with us till last season, Bobbie has scored between 10 and 15 goals for us, which is fine IMO, as we all know and love him for all the other things he does outside of goalscoring which in some ways, are more important than his goalscoring ability in our system.

Now in '17/ 18, Bobbie scored a career high 27 goals in all comps. Then, he scored 16 goals in '18/ 19. Last season, he scored only 9 EPL goals and about 12 in all comps. I know Bobbie should/ could have scored more but it did not happen cos he was dropping deep way too much and doing other jobs to facilitate more Mane and Salah more than prev. seasons, IMO.

So what I would like to know from Ed01 or those in-the-know, is was there a role change (s) for Bobbie last season? Did Klopp ask him to be way more of a facilitator than previous years like occupying the DM's and drawing them out to allow more space for our midfielders to get forward more kike he did with Partey in the Atletico game at Anfield as? If the Ed's have info about this please, share. Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - the tactics are constantly evolving to keep ahead of the opposition, last season there was not so much space in behind for Mane and Salah to run into. So the tactics adjusted by Firmino moving defenders around to create the space, he spent more time wide and deep than before to open up avenues for others to use. The worry is that he was still getting on the end of enough chances to score more, but I am sure he will come good as last season was an odd one and shouldn't really be counted, for anyone. Almost half of it was coming off the back of a lockdown, and a third was after the title was won and no one had anything to actually play for. Everyone's stats would have been a bit messed up by the situation. Some for the better, others for the worse. This season will be the same, stats will be odd for many, particularly the type of players we don't want at Liverpool, the shrinking violets who can't handle pressure will be a lot better than usual without fans at the grounds.}

10 Oct 2020 13:43:53
Thanks, Ed01 for your analysis. I just wanted to know if Bobbie dropping deeper and doing a bit more since space was limited for Mane and Salah to run into, sapped his energy to be much more mentally calm to take the chances that did come his way.

I also agree that last season cannot be counted cos Bobbie has always scored a good amount of goals for us in addition, to doing a multitude of other things in our system that stats cannot measure hence, why we call these functions "intangibles".

Bobbie scored 2 goals for Brazil last night and both were well taken goals as well so hopefully, that will help his confidence moving forward cos we know he can score goals and actually, a whole lot of them.

10 Oct 2020 14:42:21
Firmino becomes droppable only if his pressing and passing continue to drop off, further. Otherwise, he's an untouchable in terms of what he brings to the team's system of play. 10 goals per season is okay, 15 goals is a bonus. I'm convinced both Mane and Salah would have a significantly harder time getting their 20 goals per season if Bobby was not there assisting or clearing out the area for them to shoot.

10 Oct 2020 14:56:53
Put Mane or Salah up front for Everton for example and I am sure they get 20 goals no problem at all.

10 Oct 2020 15:09:48
Apparently last night the Brazil manager played firmino as a proper 9, not straying from his position between the sticks like a traditional centre forward.

10 Oct 2020 15:34:40
Hailstones, Bobby gets more than enough chances in this Liverpool team. Last year he seemed to have more good chances than Mane but he just can't finish. Lewendowski would get 30 goals as Liverpool number 9 i have zero doubt about that. And yes Mane and salah would get similar numbers to what they get now as well.

People saying he always starts slow is a cop out, like he gets special treatment. He has started the last 2 seasons slow but never really got going in either. This year he has to pull his weight or we might very well fall short. Its a front 3 after all not a front 2.6.

10 Oct 2020 18:27:16
Mark, No highly rated CF out there, is asked to do all the stuff Bobbie does for us cos they are too busy trying to score goals while Bobbie is asked to mainly facilitate others. Lewandowski is not asked to facilitate Gnabry and Coman so not sure what that is about.

Also, Bobbie scored 27 goals in all comps. two seasons ago in addition to doing all the other stuff Lewandowski does NOT do for Bayern so there is NO guarantee he would score 30 goals for us IF he were doing all the other crazy stuff Bobbie is asked to do so your comparison is false, at best.

I also do not believe Bobbie is getting special treatment cos he starts slow as that is a very myopic way of looking at things. The other CF's are incapable of doing what Bobbie does in the system we play. Just facts.

Sometimes, he is asked to do a bit more pressing or to occupy the DM and drag him out on the wing to allow our CM's and wide forwards to do their work. If no other CF we have can do any of that then, it is not special treatment now, is it? They need him to thrive and to shine so till someone can do all that he does, he plays until he cannot do these anymore. Just my take.

10 Oct 2020 18:41:33
Exactly RM in his best season we won nothing and he disappeared in the final and left it all on Mane's shoulders. Since then he has been average at best and we have won everything. I do rate Firmino to a point and have always said when he plays well the team plays better. Where I have a massive issue is people making out that Bobby is responsible for Mane and Salah producing the goals. Mane works as hard if not harder than Firmino has a similar amount of chances yet produces far more end product. Firmino is very very lucky to have Salah and Mane making all their runs and grafting their balls off not the other way around for me. And this glue bollocks don't get me started.

10 Oct 2020 18:55:25
Yes he plays a vital role in the team and that means you play him, but he needs to improve taking the simple chances he gets from time to time. Seen a couple of games where he’s 6-10 yards out in middle of the goal doesn’t make the keeper work hard enough. Not saying that means he’s dropped but he certainly needs to improve on it he’s obvs got the technical ability.

10 Oct 2020 19:39:33
I don't think that Firmino's brilliance won't be fully appreciated until after he's gone from LFC personally. He is so subtle in his approach that the little things that he does are overlooked because of the brilliance of Salah and Mane. His touch is sublime, he's a brilliant distributor of the ball, and he is so unselfish that he is overlooked, and he doesn't mind that he is overlooked. I think he is perfect for us. I wouldn't say he is world class, but Klopp is brilliant at putting players in the right spot to take advantage of their strengths. Firmino would not be the same player at City. He is perfect for our system and I'm glad he is on our side. Brilliant footballer for our style of play in my opinion.

10 Oct 2020 19:40:25
I have faith in Firmino or Minamino to play that role, so it’s no problem to me what Klopp goes with.

10 Oct 2020 19:43:07
He was away with the birds last game half passes etc love bobby he’s red but a drop is coming and I think it’s him!
Some players expect to turn up and get a game well there competition there now and Jota for me has been better then bobby the last couple of games.

10 Oct 2020 20:23:36
Firmino is victim of his own success being an attacking midfielder who can do a good job as a striker but a different type of striker in a certain system. I think that system needs changing as team are getting wise too the way we play and also we won't get away with playing the same way forever . Klopp is going too really be earning his money when the players come back as with no fans we need extra inspiration .

{Ed025's Note - its been a high intensity 18 months for the players hailstones and sometimes fatigue will set in, i think thats happened to bobby mate..

10 Oct 2020 21:11:12
Mark, YES Bobbie is the glue that keeps our offensive system going. Klopp said that himself BUT I guess you know better, yeah?
Secondly, Mane and Salah are lucky to have Bobbie rather than the other way around cos that is how they have shined cos the system is built that way. He made both players Balon D'Or worthy to the detriment of his game. Klopp said as much BUT again, you clearly know better.

Also, you make this dishonest point that even tho Bobbie scored 27 goals in '17/ 18, cos we won nothing suddenly the goals don't count? What type of foolishness is that? You beat him up for not scoring goals YET when he scored a shed load, you still beat him up cos his goals did not win us the CL? So in the end, the guy can't win and you are never wrong.
And on that point, did it ever occur to you that possibly Bobbie had a "quiet" game scoring wise, in the '18 CL final cos he was busy creating space for Mane to thrive and did you think that maybe that was the plan after Salah went off?

In the end, you may not like Bobbie and think he is crap or whatever and that is fine BUT enuff with the dishonest arguments and character assassination of Bobbie cos he is not doing what you want. And until the other forwards can do what Bobbie does, he plays, IMO.

10 Oct 2020 21:52:22
When we win it doesn’t matter Bobby don’t score, but when we lose its another story.

10 Oct 2020 22:10:24
Very well said RM.

10 Oct 2020 22:24:49
Well RM at the moment Bobby doesn’t deserve his place in the team. And unless he improves he won’t play as much, I think that is obvious. Klopp has said many things over the years and as great as he is a lot of it hasn’t been the truth. IMO you disrespect Mane and Salah who are the real attacker stars of the team. Bobby is a luck lucky boy to play in this great team. If he doesn’t up his game he will be replaced.

10 Oct 2020 22:30:00
What your saying is even when Salah got sent off Bobby was still running away from the goal? Who was he making space for? Our one attacker? There are many games when it should be upto Bobby but he always leaves it to someone else. Time for Bobby to stand up and be counted. Take responsibility stop passing the buck all the bloody time.

10 Oct 2020 23:11:03
'If he doesn’t up his game he will be replaced'

You said this ages ago mark, maybe a year or so ago when you and I had that debate about him yet here we are, he's still a starter. He's not going to get replaced anytime soon mate, that I have no doubt about. He's far too important to even be dropped nevermind replaced.

11 Oct 2020 07:48:07
Replaced was the wrong word. Just needs to up his game massively. That would do nicely for us all.

11 Oct 2020 09:12:18
Bobby at his best is a massive asset to the team but currently he is nowhere near that and hasn't been for a long time. Forgetting about his finishing for the time being, it's his poor touch and passing which is most lacking currently. The problem is we don't have a high level replacement to drop him so we have to hope he just plays his way back into form. Minamino is the one Klopp obviously sees as next in line as he's getting plenty of minutes. But he hasn't exactly set the world alight when's he's played.

11 Oct 2020 09:05:54
In fairness you can’t say it’s facts Lewandowski can’t provide what Bobby does. In his last few seasons he’s got double assist figures whilst managing to get 40- 50 goals himself in each season. And let’s be honest Bayern’s wingers score for fun as well. So either he’s making space for them or it’s a myth that the wide forwards need all this space to run into to be able to score.
This isn’t a dig at bobby but no wonder us LFC are looked at by other fans. Yes we have some great players and some world class ones but so do other teams. There’s nothing wrong with complimenting other teams and players when they do well. If anything it just makes us look slightly bitter.

11 Oct 2020 10:52:17
JK23, I did not slag off Lewandowski (who I am a great fan of) nor Bayern so not sure what you are saying here. More on topic, do you know if Lewandowski is being asked to change his game and sacrificing himself more than necessary to facilitate other players to the detriment of his game (keyword here is detriment)?

If the answer is no which I think it is then again, the comparison does not hold water. There is NO indication that he is being asked to as in, assist more rather and score less and the numbers do not show that. And btw, Bayern are far and away superior to other German teams and open teams up way easier than LFC does so again, the comparison is false.

Same with Kane at Spurs. He is lethal in front of goal and is actually very good at dropping deep to create for Son and Lucas. Is he being asked to do more assisting and facilitating scoring hence, to the detriment of his goalscoring nos.? There is again, no indication/ evidence of that in the numbers. If you have the evidence, you are free to educate me. Cheers, man.

11 Oct 2020 11:02:16
Mark, you are spouting absolute bullpocky. "Bobbie is lucky to have Mane and Salah"? Is that a sick joke? You are aware that Bobbie was here before Salah and Mane arrived, yeah? You are aware that Bobbie was the cornerstone of our front 3 cos he was the focal point around which the attacking system was built, yeah? Again, what type of foolishness are you spouting on here?

Salah is right, now that I remember. You have been on Bobbie's back for a long time and way before this issue became a topic for debate. You have never liked/ rated Bobbie and have always had an axe to grind with him hence IMO, you are just using this debate to draw your pound of flesh and your second to last post proves it.

Bobbie is not getting dropped, sold nor benched anytime soon so it is either time to do away with your bitterness or support him to get back to the form we all know and love about him.

11 Oct 2020 11:48:32
Rm you just contradicted yourself throughout your reply. You stated Kane is good at dropping deep to create for son and Lucas and then you say there is no indication : evidence in his numbers. So does he or doesn’t he? I think the fact he has 3 goals and 7 assists already this season might be an indicator. Is Germany that much of an easy league as well. Bayern are currently European champions and their other teams don’t do to bad in Europe. Leipzig have been just as close to winning the CL as the mighty Man City who have been the most successful premier league team in recent times.
For me Bobby alongside Mo and Sadio is our best front 3. It is proven and it is world class. But I don’t buy the Salah and Mane would not be the same players without hun. Otherwise if that is true that means Bobby isn’t the same player without them. All 3 aren’t too shabby at international level or at previous clubs. We say Bobby sacrifices his numbers for the team but he actually had more shots that Mane last season so unless he was taking part in the half time mascot penalty shoot outs then I think his goal scoring numbers could be better. And I’m sure once he bags a goal or two then hopefully he’ll start driving up the numbers.

11 Oct 2020 11:52:20
And Rm in answer to your question Mate do I know if Lewandowski is being asked to change his game.
I think you know the obvious answer to that one is no.
Like I know the answer is no to the question do you know that Bobby, Kane, Lewandowski or any other player in world football are being asked to do anything by their manager. Not unless you’re a fly on the wall during all there conversations.

11 Oct 2020 13:52:32
"Bobby is very lucky to have Mane and Salah" I think that is a fact. I also believe Jota was brought in instead of a cb because Klopp is slighty worried by Bobby's form. And as you say he is the longest serving forward at the club but until Mane and Salah came we were losers, that speaks for itself.

12 Oct 2020 10:31:42
People need to stop demanding higher goal returns from firmino and seek a striker who simply scores more as a reason. Drogba spent eight seasons at Chelsea. Only 2 of those were 20 goal plus and his 2 or 3 next best seasons were similar or less than firminos rate. He even had a few seasons where he got less than firminos worst return last season. But his influence on the team was great even when not prolific. Lukaku has always been a clinical high scorer but never as effective for the team in comparison to drogba. Firmino still boasts a 1 in 3 rate for Liverpool and when you consider his ability to set up goals and his contribution to how we play in possession and out of possession that he offers to his teammates benefit I think we should be very grateful he's our no.9 and not get too critical even when he's going though periods of lacking clinical finishing in front of goal. It's frustrating at times I know but it's positive he's still always creating and having chances. It's more of a worry if your forward can't even get the chances that strikers crave. Firmino will enjoy better results and impact with his finishing in the future just as long as he keeps getting the chances and can put away a few to get his confidence going as it's likely we get at least 15 goals minimum through the season along with his other strenghts on offer that's more valuable to me than an out and out no.9 who will have 25 or 30 goals but offers nothing else to the team. Those extra 10 goals are less valuable than what firmino gives us at the expense of having a striker who might get 20 plus goals. Aubameyang, ings, vardy, martial were the strikers leading the PL chart last year despite only 1 of those teams making top 4. Also it's amazing how an opinion can differ with the simple task of being on penalties. For example if you took the 3 4 or 5 goals that a striker earned from away a PK and added that tally onto firmino you would end up with a 10 goal season being 14 or 15 and the striker with 20 goals would only be on 15 or 16 also. Vardy has 5 goals already this season but 4 were penalties and he's getting so much praise despite only scoring once from play in 4 games. Kane, aguero, aubameyang, vardy will always be top of the scoring when they have added goals from penalties which firmino doesn't get. That plays a big part in how strikers get perceived. If mane had scored the 2 penalties against Leeds instead of salah then he'd have 5 goals after 3 games compared to salah just 1 when salah was getting all the plaudits.

12 Oct 2020 11:15:55
What about when we see origi start in place of firmino? And the drop in quality that we then get from mane and salah. That's evidence to correct the statement above that firmino is lucky to play with salah and mane as if they are making him look good and he offers them nothing with his own ability. I also see an argument that firmino was here longer and we only became winners when salah and mane arrived as if they only deserve credit and no one else. Firmino was only playing for half a season under klopp in a poor team before mane joined, we then still didn't compete for titles that season. Then salah came and we still didn't win anything so is firmino no good because he didn't win trophies playing with benteke and an average team in his first season? Why are we trying to use the quality of one of our forwards as reasons to criticise others, always comparing teammates as if there's individual competition between them as who is the best.

Mane and salah only hit the world class level with firmino as their constant partner, and vice versa so that's all the proof that tells us they each get the best from one another as teammates and that's all that a fan should admire and appreciate.

13 Oct 2020 08:38:49
The guy is a legend. You don't drop Bobby firmino, even if he only has one eye.

{Ed025's Note - you drop any player who is not producing the goods robbie, he has been less than convincing for a while now mate and what sort of message does that send out to the other guys waiting for their shot?, i dont get the obsession with bobby to be honest..



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