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29 Nov 2020 10:14:23
I wonder if what happened with Wellbeck yesterday could be the beginning of something new.

Usually the debate with contentious penalty decisions is about whether there was sufficient contact to make the player go down, which is probably why players always make sure they go down. Typically, if the defender misses the ball, makes contact with the attacker, and the attacker goes down, it meets the criteria for a penalty.

With the Wellbeck incident, there was no such debate. It was clear that there was contact with Wellbeck and that Robertson missed the ball. However, there was no need to debate whether there was sufficient contact to make Wellbeck go down, because he clearly didn't go down. If you watch the clip, the ball is cleared upfield and you see Wellbeck take another couple of steps, look back over his shoulder to see where the ball went and what happened, and then, with the ball now up towards the middle of the pitch, he drops to the floor.

This was the first case I've seen where a player was possibly making decisions on their actions with VAR in mind. Wellbeck knew that there was contact, knew that it wasn't sufficient to hinder him or send him to the floor and that it wasn't a foul under normal criteria, but also knew that if VAR watched it back in slow motion it would almost certainly be a penalty.

Agree7 Disagree0

29 Nov 2020 10:29:44
Imagine if this was in Force during corners. Every single team does it (including us) but some are far worse than others. Basically it’s a wrestling match in the box with 90% of the players in there not even going for the ball just pulling, tugging and holding each other. Would just skip the taking of an actual corner and go straight to a penalty.

29 Nov 2020 10:48:31
It was a foul. Robertson swung a boot and caught the player. Similar to Masuaku kicking Salah. Mo had to go down to highlight he'd been fouled. So did Welbeck. Anywhere else on the pitch it is a foul. Referees need to be stronger and apply the same rules in the penalty area consistently.

I'm more annoyed with Salah's disallowed goal. If they'd drawn the vertical lines up to Ben Whites leftsleeve, Salah was clearly onside. Even just taking it from his right foot you can see Salah is dead in line. The offside rule isn't there to rule players offside for a hairs breadth. It is there to stop attackers gaining an advantage.

People are moaning about the wrong decisions. Both Brighton penalties were fouls. Mane was offside obviously without any lines and arguably it wasn't even a free kick. These ridiculous offside lines are the problem. Bamford's disallowed goal was the worst decision i've seen in my lifetime. Salah vs Brighton and Mane vs Everton are not far behind but it's been happening to all teams for over a year now.

29 Nov 2020 11:02:58
I really don't see the comparison with Masuaku. He kicked Salah from behind when Salah had clear possession.

Here Wellbeck and Robbo are both going for a 50/ 50 and then there is contact on the swing. Wellbeck gets to it first, but it's almost nominal really. he touches it and has no chance of getting the ball and is off-balance and out of the play. but there is contact on his foot.

I think they have set a really dangerous precendent here. But because it's football and referees, there won't be any consistency. If they continue like this then surely any contact in the box has to be called a pen? it's too much.

29 Nov 2020 11:27:14
Faith what you just described is called a late challenge. Robbo was beaten to the ball and he caught the man. It's a foul if you swing wildly for the ball and catch the man. I have no issue with the penalty at all. It's annoying because it is so soft, but it's against the rules to kick an opponent.

29 Nov 2020 11:36:29
In todays "rules" it was a penalty, off course it was as frustrating as it may be. I also think Salah was offside by a toenail again as frustrating as it is. VAR is crap tho, I want it back to the old way were refs make mistakes and you argue about it with your mates on a Monday at work or down the pub.

29 Nov 2020 11:42:08
I have to disagree MK not all contact is a foul, if we are going to say all contact is a foul then fine but we will get 2-3 pens a match.

Slowing down the action takes all reason out of the decision. For instance if a player is running and there’s contact it can be enough to put you off balance. In this instance, both players went for the ball and robbo kicks the underside of welbeck boot (there is no debate in that) however it wasn’t enough to knock the man of his feet and he went down a little while after the incident.

The ref is looking right at it and waves it on, but because of slow motion everything looks worse and loses all context.

Honestly if that was given elsewhere on the pitch as a foul I’d be fuming. Is the game really heading towards this? By giving those We are encouraging players to go down on contact, one thing we all chastise players for.

29 Nov 2020 11:54:35
I agree Wyred that all contact is not a foul but I think that analogy has been thrown right out the window. It seems that VAR will be giving any contact as a pen. I don't think Salah's was a penalty a few weeks ago under the same circumstances.

29 Nov 2020 12:09:45
VAR isn't the issue. The mishandling of it by either incompetent or biased clowns is.
Last season we had Bobby offside "by an armpit".
What was yesterday's? The shadow of a bootlace?

29 Nov 2020 12:11:50
MK - I'm not disputing the point about Robbo's foul. I get why they called it, but if that is the bar for pens then they best be calling every defender contact on attacker in side the box. Because they have set the bar very low.

I think the fact that you have players current and former and former coaches as pundits and ex-refs saying that it's either not a pen or very harsh, that says it all. again, not disputing that there was contact, but for a pen? c'mon really?

but back to the initial point, it's not comparable to Masuaku imo. Masuaku makes a clear play at Salah's ankle and fouls him, from behind, while Salah has possession of the ball. How that can be compared to Robbo and Wellbeck going for a 50/ 50 and Robbo loses by a fraction of a millisecond it over my head.

{Ed025's Note - they were both verh harsh decisions faith but if you give one you have to give the other, both minimal contact with the attacker making a show of themselves by rolling around after the fact mate..

29 Nov 2020 12:38:00
It was a foul and they got the peno after the ref went to the video!
Just Like when Pickford fouled vvd (put him out for the season) and the ref went to the video!

29 Nov 2020 12:43:28
25 - I can't see the comparison with the Masuaku foul other than they're both soft. At least with Masuaku you can say he makes a tackle, and collects Salah from behind. anyways.

the funny thing is - usually when there has been a no-call in the box we say "If that was anywhere else on the field it's a foul, so why doesn't the ref call that in the box? " lol, I don't think many of us would expect Robbo to have been called for a foul if that was outside the box haha. but this is what it's coming to. I'm with Hendo, get rid of it and let's go back to the ref on the field messing things up haha.

{Ed025's Note - i would ditch it tomorrow faith, but we would need these incompetent refs we have to step up to the plate and i dont know if they have that in their locker mate..

29 Nov 2020 13:10:36
Ditch VAR, we have the best league in the world with some of the best foreign players maybe it’s time to bring in better refs as well. It works in the champions league it can work for the premier league. Can’t think of a decent Ref we’ve produced since Clattenburg.

And who’s being consulted with the rule changes, men that haven’t kicked a ball in their life’s can’t decide these important changes. No pro would surely ever pass the underarmpit offside rule or for any hand contact is a foul.

29 Nov 2020 14:54:01
The issue is that you can't ditch VAR when other major leagues now use it as well as all major competitions.

29 Nov 2020 14:57:08
The inconsistency again with var shown today after VAR reviews a pen similar to wellbeck one yesterday but UTd didn’t get the pen.

29 Nov 2020 15:23:22
Salah went down theatrically but Wellbeck walked 2 d shops for a paper, came back, read it and then deciding to go down. i wonder whether its clever forward play or something we don't want to see in our game😉.

29 Nov 2020 15:34:50
I’ve said it before but I really think the only way VAR can be assimilated into the game is for the conversation between the red and stockly park to be audible to fans, like it is in cricket and rugby. Take yesterday for example, if the ref says there was no contact between robbo and welbeck and VAR says actually mate there was contact go and have a look then that’s one thing. If the ref (who had a spot on view of it in real time) says there was contact but not enough to award a pen, then VAR can say yep there was contact and you’ve made your decision so we don’t need to get involved. I think everyone, including players, need to know why VAR get involved so that we all have an understanding of why decisions are made and where ‘the bar’ is set for VAR intervention.

{Ed002's Note - It is not going to happen.}

29 Nov 2020 16:12:43
MKS, your comparison is false on all accounts and you are doing the very same thing MOTD did to justify the unjustifiable.

First off, Salah’s foul was given by the ref immediately after he went down off full contact, NOT by VAR nor did the VAR ask the ref to check the monitor.

Seconding all, Welbeck was touched but he and Robbie went for the ball and missed it. Contact in the box does not automatically mean penalty and the Brighton v Villa game where Sully Marsh got the ball BEFORE contacting Trezeguet and the pen decision was rightly reversed is all the proof you need.

Thirdly, Salah went down immediately after contact as that is how it works when you are fouled. On the contrary after contact, Welbeck ran a few yards, then looked to the ref and dived to the ground looking for it and ref took no notice of it an played on. That is not a late challenge not a foul. That is cheating from Welbeck. Pls, learn the difference.

There are too many holes in your argument to pick from but I will leave it at these astray is way too many, IMO.

29 Nov 2020 19:12:04
Totally agree mk. And yeah, Bamford offside was absolutely ridiculous.

29 Nov 2020 20:23:52
Has Welbeck fallen over yet?

My biggest concern is that Man U are going to now get a penalty after the final whistle because Fernandes fell over in the changing room.

{Ed025's Note - i heard that welbeck and salah are appearing on strictly come dancing as a couple langland, the are dancing the argentine tango to the tune of "ring a ring a roses we all fall down".. :)

30 Nov 2020 01:37:35
It’s the inconsistency from these inept referees that gets me. Take Fabinho’s tackle against Sheff Utd for example. Gets the ball and the man falls over his foot outside the box. Ref gives the foul, VAR deems it inside the box so a pen is given. Not even a foul never mind a penalty in my view.
Now fast forward to last weekend in the Villa and Utd games. 2 pens overturned on review by the ref because the player got the slightest touch (and I mean slightest) to the ball before swiping through the shins of the attacker. Both fouls all day long (the Utd one could’ve been a leg breaker) yet because there’s a touch on the ball it’s no foul?
Why was Fabinho’s a foul then? He clearly got the ball it didn’t just flick off his boot like the other 2.
It makes me so mad that not only do we have to put up with the emotion vacuum that is VAR but they can’t even get the decisions right! I could cope with it if they got it right but it’s just showing up how bad they actually are when they what it from 3 different angles and in slow motion and STILL get it wrong!
It needs to go!

30 Nov 2020 11:15:10
Article in the Independent that VAR is gone rogue.







 

 

 
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