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02 Feb 2021 13:13:04
The signing of Kabak is a slap in the face to the hundreds of thousands of people who spent the last year burning their life to fight C.V. and support us. Rewarding him when he still hasn't taken responsibility and properly apogised for what he did (he's still claiming despite multiple angles and close ups showing him looking at the guy before doing it that it was all false perspective and be didn't even really do anything) with a chance to play for one of the greatest teams on the planet is disgraceful no matter what our on field needs are in and if it was united or Chelsea signing him, you all know that not one of you would be talking about how he 'deserves a chance' or should have 'the benefit the doubt'. And if I hear one more 'he's a young man' comment I'm going to scream - there are nurses a year younger than him who were working 60 hour weeks in icu wards while he was spitting on someone on international TV.


Whatever success we can dig out of this season, if any, will mean a little bit less with his name in the programme.

{Ed025's Note - you make some very fine points hjikle mate..

Agree3 Disagree0

02 Feb 2021 14:04:49
Think you're overreacting a tad here. Listen no one condones what he did, it's despicable and disgusting but he made a mistake and I'm sure he just wants to move on from it, this could be helped if he outright apologized however.

As far as I'm concerned what he did was at another club, once he's put on that red shirt it's a clean slate for me and he will get my support. If he gives his all and remains professional then that's all we can ask for. So I feel dwelling on something in the past, whilst it is worrying, shouldn't influence his time at the club as long as he doesn't do anything remotely similar whilst at Liverpool.

People can change for the better.

02 Feb 2021 14:14:16
Great post hjikle.

Post of the year (so far) 👏.

02 Feb 2021 14:14:52
Personally, i believe everyone deserves a second chance and the opportunity to make amends. Is he a serial offender like Suarez or is he a kid who did something dumb? We will no doubt find out but the point about him being young is valid. I did a lot of dumb stuff when i was a kid, as did most people. We grow up, learn from our mistakes and hopefully become better people. It was a foul act but give him the benefit of the doubt that it was an immature reaction rather than an inherent character flaw.

02 Feb 2021 14:18:55
Unless its carragher though?! I think its disgusting personally but I'll be giving him a chance.

02 Feb 2021 14:29:22
From another perspective, could he not be charged with a criminal offence? I saw a teenager was charged with assault for spitting at a police officer in the UK. Personally, I think it is disgusting, even before C.V.. Would I be sacked for spitting at someone in my place of work, most likely. Is football on a completely different planet when it comes to these matters? Absolutely. I have never and will never meet the man most likely, so I will still support him when he is on the field as a player, beyond that, I don't think he will effect my life in any way so won't worry too much about him.

02 Feb 2021 14:45:09
I agree that what he did is disgusting but we ALL make mistakes so I say give him another chance. If he doesn't learn what he did was wrong and does it again then cancel his contract and get him out of the club.

{Ed025's Note - i think it shows a flaw in the guys make up dan, disgusting thing to do to anyone and the reason carragher went from hero to zero for me mate..

02 Feb 2021 14:49:25
What he did was disgusting and despicable but to say his age shouldn’t be taken into consideration is ignorant.

I am not in the least condoning what he did but I’m sure most people on this site have done something in their lives they shouldn’t have, we just have the luxury of the fact it wasn’t on national tv.

Agreed it’s concerning that he hasn’t shown public remorse but like other have said, people deserve a chance to reform.

{Ed025's Note - do they shaq?...really?, how many people are back in in prison for re-offending?, leopards and spots and all that..

02 Feb 2021 14:50:15
Hjikle, I take it you feel the same way about firmino who got done for drink driving? I know which ones worse but people are quick to forget when they choose too. Stop being a drama queen. I’m not saying C.V. isn’t dangerous but up until January 388 people under the age of 60 had died of it.

{Ed025's Note - two wrongs have never made a right pegleg, i would sooner you be honest and say you dont care what a player does as long as he plays for liverpool, i would respect your honesty at least mate..

02 Feb 2021 15:19:55
He deserves to be hung, drawn and quartered before he even puts his boots on for us!

Come on lads 🤦‍♂️.

What he did was wrong.

But his age is most definitely relevant. The lad is only just on the cusp of becoming a man right now.

We have a good group of lads and I'm hopeful they will show him the way.

02 Feb 2021 15:27:05
Two wrongs don't make a right ed25, correct. May I add that no 2 people are the same either.
I personally known people who have done the worst crimes you could think of in NI, yet today some of them do more good deeds than you and I will ever do in a lifetime.
It says as much about people who are more than willing to write you off without giving you the chance to alter your course.

{Ed025's Note - i get that IR but unfortunately for me high profile sports stars are role models mate, atonement doesn,t really do it for me im afraid as im not really a second chance kinda guy...not that he has ever apologised for the incident, just my opinion of course..

02 Feb 2021 15:39:32
We all make mistakes I am sure joe Anderson the mayor of liverpool didn't mean to threaten or intimidate those poor people and abuse his power of position, he would say in private " I am sorry I didn't mean it "

{Ed025's Note - i dont give a toss about joe anderson hailstones...if he gets found guilty of anything he will get his just desserts, but lets not deflect things mate if you feel its ok to spit at someone then just be honest and say that!, maybe you should start a peteition to have a statue to luiz suares errected outside anfield while your at it..

02 Feb 2021 16:17:57
If the Suarez incident taught me anything its we can all be guilty of club tribalism and rush to defend our players before considering their actions. Ashamed to say I was guilty when Suarez did what he did. It was only after the incident when I saw dragging our club and a legend through the mud i came to my senses.

No Kabak hasn't dragged us through the mud. Yet. But he has done it for Schalke and for me he's going to need to work hard to convince I want him at the club. I never ever want another character like Suarez representing us regardless of talent.

{Ed025's Note - i think thats fair bledd and im sure your not the only one mate..

02 Feb 2021 16:37:52
Ed025,
I think people want the ones like me and you and hjikle and others to forgive him but they are missing a key point in the OP; he hasn't still taken responsibility or oened up to have done it or shown any remorse, let alone apologise.

How can you forgive and forget when he isn't sorry? As mentioned in the OP, he is still trying to deny any wrongdoing.

02 Feb 2021 16:46:06
What is this obsession with cancelling people out of existence due to a mistake they have done? In this case this is a genuinely disgusting mistake, but when did we decide that the way to deal with 20 year olds who snap when angry is to make them outcast for the rest of their lives?

Most 19-20 year olds in this country plan in cold blood to get absolutely trashed every weekend, knowing full well that a number of them will get sick in the streets, urinate, cause injury and damage and a headache for NHS A&E staff. Do these "disgusting" youth deserve to get degrees and jobs?

Surely the sensible thing is to bring the unruly youth to spend time with inspirational people and let them reform after their mistakes. There is nothing better for Ozan than to spend time with VVD, Hendo and Klopp and put his mistake behind him.

There is a growing culture in the liberal west which is obsessed with finding flaws in people, magnifying them, and absolutely obliterating their character. People now care more about guarding their image than they do about having a good character. If this trend continues, the most respected people in the society will be those with the worst morals and the best PR advisors (only need to look at Hollywood and Westminster to see this is already the case! ) It's far better to build a society where it's easy to recover from mistakes and make a positive contribution.

02 Feb 2021 16:55:45
Duncan Ferguson got jailed for assault but in evertonions eyes he’s a club legend. I’d rather be spat at that head butted . And no I’m not saying what he done is acceptable but different fans from different clubs will have their own say. Man Utd fans with cantona attacking a fan or Greenwood meeting brasses. each club has a player that’s done something out of order so do we reject him or support him.

{Ed025's Note - ferguson is not a legend in my eyes ted but i have to say give me the head butt all the time mate, now im not saying dont sign the guy, but lets not just ignore what he done and the fact that he has shown no contrition alarms me, all im saying is lets not think its ok and make excuses for him..

02 Feb 2021 16:49:18
Ed25 your assistant manager got a second chance or have you forgotten?

{Ed025's Note - i have not forgotten rudder and dont condone his ations either, please dont ask me to compromise my integrity mate..

02 Feb 2021 17:20:04
Sorry ed25 but that’s far too generalist a view. I’m not going to go into the nuances of why people re-offend.

But are you saying that most people don’t change, therefore nobody deserves the chance to?

{Ed025's Note - im not saying it doesn,t happen shaq, but sweeping it under the carpet and saying ahh diddums is not the answer either, there are enough do gooders like lord longford about to last a lifetime mate..

02 Feb 2021 17:27:33
I’m not trying to make a excuse for him it’s vile what he done but fans react to their player doing things differently. My point was the likes of Everton, man utd and Chelsea fans etc accept their players so although what he done was wrong I think we should be given the chance to not make it right but prove to everyone that it was a mistake and he has learned his lesson.

{Ed025's Note - if he shown a bit of contrition it would help ted..

02 Feb 2021 17:52:08
Ed25, I’m not saying for one second that two wrongs make a right. I’m pointing out some people are quick to forget when it suits them. As for being spat on, we’ll that’s just low and disgusting but i it’s nowhere near as bad as drink driving and to say you’d rather be head butted is just silly as done right you’d have a broken nose and wake up with a headache. Choosing between the two I’d much rather wipe some spit off my face and nut the culprit but we’re all different I guess.

{Ed025's Note - in this climate peg leg being spat on could be a death sentence mate, i will take the broken nose and headache if its all the same to you..

02 Feb 2021 18:03:28
Hhan your response is the best. You nailed it. There are certain crimes I don’t believe you get second chances for but spitting once at someone is not one of them though he will have to work damn hard to earn the trust back.

02 Feb 2021 18:14:13
Ok first of all have you seen the incident? Its not even conclusive. If intentional very wrong but for me didn't seem intentional.
Also club won't sign him if his review was negative. I don't think klopp would give a green light to a signing he wasnt confident about as a person. He has heard good things from people he trusts and the club decided to go ahead.
Dont berate people and pass judgment on character. What if he didn't mean it and has to live with it?
Anyways he was banned and served his punishment so everyone moves on. The german FA did i guess we should too and judge him on what he brings here.
If he is as vile as OP says don't celebrate but judge him for what he does here not what he has done and been punished for.

02 Feb 2021 18:31:23
Soz ed mate I wasnt trying too encourage any offensive actions from any players wat he did was disgusting but he is only 20 and also he only human we make mistakes if we don't learn from them then obviously not worth a carrot .
Frank rijkaard spat at rudi voller in italia 90 but his career weren't ruined cos of it or defined by it .

{Ed025's Note - not a problem mate, that rijkaard incident still haunts me, i suppose i just hate players who think they can do what they want because they are celebrities and earn millions of pounds...they crack me up..

02 Feb 2021 19:08:12
He said it wasn’t intentional guilty until proven innocent.

{Ed025's Note - and sweeny todd,s hand just slipped when he was giving shaves..

02 Feb 2021 19:32:27
Ed25, so who’s worse in your opinion. A lad who’s spat at someone amid a C.V. C.V. (even if the numbers are manufactured) or someone who knowingly got into a car intoxicated and got done for drink driving?

{Ed025's Note - as i say pegleg 2 wrongs dont make a right, they are both severely wrong imo mate..

02 Feb 2021 19:55:06
I don’t care if your 19 or 91 you don’t spit at anyone. It’s disgusting. **** behaviour.

It’s also a pointless exercise comparing that incident to what others have done wrong. Take Bobby for example. Is his incident more okay cos he didn’t crash and kill somebody? He was willing to risk it so does it matter?

Naby only got involved in a little light fraud. Is that okay?

My point here is that people will make mistakes. Even ones you find fairly reprehensible. You have to accept that or ban them. And I don’t believe if you make a single mistake you should be thrown to the Wolves.

That being said you shouldn’t just brush things under the carpet with rose tinted glasses on. It’s upto him now to prove what he did was a one off and that he is a decent person.

Until then, I’ll give him a chance as a centre back but my opinion of him as a bloke is through the floor.

{Ed025's Note - good and fair post that wassa, and a fitting way to end this debate mate..cheers..

02 Feb 2021 21:52:28
People who say give me a headbut instead of spitting in my face have never been headbutted properly.
If the guy has Klopps support then he also has mine.
He is no Joey Barton lads.

03 Feb 2021 08:13:45
Ed025 I think that's a very simplistic way to view the criminal system.


Repeat offending has many contributing factors but one of the major ones is a lack of opportunity upon release. Nobody will hire a criminal (even a genuinely reformed one) and every criminal has to disclose that they were one. Everyone has the same attitude of leopords and spots so of course when it comes down to getting through life they have virtually zero options and return to crime.

A comparison of recividism and correctional practices in this country and ones with more of a focus on rehabilitation as opposed to punishment only highlights this point further.

Aside from that I agree on kabak. I didn't want us to sign him really since we have a poor history of handling players with attitude problems and I just think we are better off avoiding the issue entirely. But he's signed and I think it should be treated as a new start, you can't have a new start if you're going to bring the baggage with you.

I'd also argue that apologies in the public eye are utterly worthless and simply appeasement since it's rare they actually even think they did something wrong, never mind genuinely apologise for it. So unless you are appeased by empty words, why bother demanding an apology if it wasnt forthcoming in the first place?

{Ed025's Note - hi nevada, you make some very valid points there and express them very well mate, the problem i have is that not everything is black or white and have a problem where i think the system is open to abuse, now i know this is nothing to do with kabak and im generalizing, but can i ask you on a personal note how you would feel about giving the likes of myra hindley a second chance?, this is not a trick question im just trying to gauge how forgiving people can be and who or when do people get another shot?..

03 Feb 2021 09:17:51
Yes, there will be people saying this, that or the other had another team signed such a player BUT in the end, he made a mistake and deserves his chance to redeem himself, kid or grown up. Carra spat in the direction of a teenager and got punished for it. Did he get sacked at Sky? No. I wonder why. Could it be that they thought he deserved another chance even tho, I think as a grown up, he should be held to a higher standard?

Kabak like anyone else, has been given a chance he may or may not deserve, to redeem himself now. Isn't that what we all would want including yourself in the same situation? Take a chill pill, bro and hope the kid gets his act together and stop judging him or others just cos they disagree with you. If not, You are accusing others of the very same thing you are doing.

03 Feb 2021 15:16:01
Ed, he was 19. I don't know about you but I made so many mistakes at 18-19. Things I would be and am genuinely ashamed of now, the difference being I wasn't on TV with millions of people and those mistakes aren't on the internet forever (thank god Facebook was only just blowing up at the time and Instagram didn't exist! ) .

He made a mistake, it was a really bad one. He apologised, he should have a chance to repair his reputation. Carra is different, he was a fully grown man in his car without the red mist. Hopefully he's learned his lesson.

03 Feb 2021 15:57:52
Kabak made a despicable mistake and got punished for it. Are we going to keep using that to define him esp. since many in our fan base defended (some still defend or ignore) the dreadful things Suarez did which were actually worse than what Kabak did? He was given chance after chance to redeem himself, all of which he messed up. In Italia 90, Rijkaard spat ON Rudi Voller and got punished for it. They both kissed and made up and Rijkaard went on to be a great player and successful manager. That spitting incident was rarely if ever, used against him and no one even talks about it.

You have to give people a chance to get their acts together and atone for their mistakes. Isn't that what the people judging Kabak already, would want us to do for them in reverse? Give the kid a chance to redeem himself and if he doesn't, he gets what is coming to him. And so what if he did not apologize the way I wanted? He is not accountable to me so why should I care? If he learns from this bad experience then, that is what should important, IMO. Apologies mean nothing w/ o follow-thru.







 

 

 
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