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08 Feb 2021 07:49:04
I actually thought we were the better team for the first hour yesterday. Klopp's decision to hook Jones and Thiago for Milner and Shaqiri changed the game. We completely and utterly lost the midfield without Jones in there. He was superb last night. Tracking runners into the area, covering the defence on counter attacks, winning headers, hardly gave the ball away etc. Probably the worst substitution decision i've ever seen. He's also played hardly any football this calendar year so no way he was tired.

So on the plus side, we showed we could mix it with City and with better finishing could've been up a goal or 2. Sadly Alisson gifted them a 2 goal lead and we didn't have any control of the ball in midfield to get back into it. Kabak and Davies have a week of training now before we play again. Let's hope the coaching team get it right and we can now put our best midfielders back where they should have been last night. Getting battered 4-1 at home has got to hurt. If that doesn't kick the players into gear then god help us. The team of last season would not have given up even at 3-1 down with 15 minutes to go. They'd have believed. Hopefully this is the turning point that was needed. It's not a narrow 1-0 loss or an away defeat. This was our patch, and City just showed up and painted it blue.

We'll be back. Weirdly, losing 4-1 has made me more sure of it. Because i could finally see a bit of emotion on their faces at full time. That hurt.

Agree9 Disagree0

08 Feb 2021 08:41:30
Nope we might have had the ball first half but we did not do much with it. Also i don't mane and salah have stopped taking a man on. The don't dribble they just keep going wide pr pass it behind. I don't think its a confidence thing and i believe that its something about keeping the ball because after villa where salah was especially taking on everyone he lost a few balls that led to the counter and we conceded 7 and after that result its in our head that we can't loose the ball upfront cuz we get sucked in.
And since we don't have hendo or fab on midfield to close down and press we are over compensating it in the final third by holding the ball far too long.
It also effects the full backs who have no overlap run going atm as mane and salah either drift wide or keep passing back to them. Without a target body in the centre they have to either pass back or useless one two and then pass back.
Its easy to see the issue is personnel. The makeshift strategy to play fab and hendo should have been 2 or 3 matches at max and blood in rhys and philips but klopp for reasons known to him does not trust them and he continues to play best midfielders as defenders and change the spine of the team.
Alcantara and jones aren't the amswers. They are luxury players. We will see the best of them when they have hendo and fab to help them in midfield. Them two in midfield protect the defenders and also press from midfield which wins us possession which in turn gives a free license to fullbacks which gives salah and mane enough space and freedom to cut in and score.
Its not happening atm and with the losses in our head our confidence is shot.

08 Feb 2021 08:50:51
Best post I have read since the game ended. I fully agree with everything you have said, MK. I thought overall as well, we way more than held our own in the game till the point Allisson's head went.

More positives, IMO: City had one shot on target in open play (their goal) all game long till that point while we had 3. We had a Mane header and Jones shot that could have given another goal. Allisson had ONE save to make all game which was the shot he parried that Gundogan scored off the rebound. Defensively, I thought we did more than okay.

We more than matched them in midfield as well even tho, we weren't that great. We forced mistakes and this led to the equalizer so I can understand why Klopp said the performance till the AB errors was very good cos under the circumstances and in our position, it was. The subs? I don't know what happened there, tbh. Was it planned? Were Jones (who was brilliant all game) and Thiago carrying injuries? Maybe the Ed's can help us here cos I don't know what that was about.

At full time, I felt for the players cos it was like Kiev all over again BUT I will NEVER slate Allisson any more than that cos frankly w/ o his miraculous saves over the past three seasons, NONE of this even happens. We go again!

08 Feb 2021 09:22:14
After the 3/ 4 years these guys have given us this is an expected lull I think, magnified by the number of injuries. For me it’s now time to put both the new centre half’s in, move hendo and Fabinho back into midfield and start to dominate teams with front foot football.

08 Feb 2021 09:23:40
Akrubissh, you make your valid points BUT on the Rhys and Nat point, I disagree. Klopp did play Rhys (esp in the CL) and Phillips so he did blood them in. For Rhys, it did not work out and we all know that so you cannot put that on Klopp for not blooding him in. On Phillips, he was good based on the opposition we were playing BUT vs a cool customer like City with multiple ways of attacking, it would have been a big ask for him and had had he failed, many on here would be blasting Klopp for killing his confidence so I can understand Klopp's theory here.

Now people can say that if Hendo was in midfield then, it would have helped. That is true vs any other team. Vs City? I don't think so for obv. reasons. Apart from this slight disagreement, your post is spot on.

08 Feb 2021 09:36:51
I’m dumb founded at how you two saw the game last night.
I’m still unsure what we were trying to do.
I guess conserve energy and not over-commit, and it looked like we were getting back in numbers with, unusually for us, often all 11 in Red in our own half when City were in possession.
But we were not breaking with speed or getting people in the box, and when City did get a counter attack, they were quicker flooding forwards.
Thiago is a stroller, he moves the ball nicely, but the PL is looking too quick for him to get up and down.
If he’s supposed to be the furthest forward, he’s not creating chances or looking a goal threat himself and he hasn’t got the pace to get in the box on the counter.
Jones takes his queue from the senior players around him, and he was in stroll mode as well. Like many modern young midfielders, they don’t want to do box-box, it’s all about playing in a certain area and that’s your lot.
That midfield yesterday was about as far removed from the contemporary Liverpool midfield as could be.

08 Feb 2021 10:01:22
Hi Oli, the issue is he has not trusted either of the centre backs at all despite them two being his only choice for quite some while. he never changed the system at all to suit them as he is adamant on playing out from back it is clear to two year olds that we do not have the personnel for it due ro the injuries. If he expects rhys and nat to play like vvd and gomez, it won't happen. He knew we are shot in defense and they are not that bad as people have made out. Sometimes you have to support and back these players. Playing players out of position regularly is never the answer. One of Nat or rhys should have been first choice defender and this should have happened back in December but he kept on chopping and changing.
I understand injuries are main reason for us not being in title race but klopps team selection is definitely the reason for lack lustre football we have been playing.

08 Feb 2021 10:01:33
Juicer, the counter points to your argument reside in the arguments themselves. You say, we looked to get bodies back which is unusual. Well, are you surprised? We cannot go gung ho in our situation due to obv. reasons so why are you asking the boys to do what they clearly are unable to do?

Also, you say we are not breaking speed to get people in the box. Answer: Cos we afe low on confidence and also fully aware of the damage City can do on the counter so we are literally playing with the handbreak on due to our midfielders playing in defence, the very people that facilitate the our ability to "break speed and get people in the box".

Thiago is a stroller. Sorry, none of that is true. I am sure you know that he is coming back from a dreadful injury that could have ended his season so he may not be match sharp yet. More importantly, he was not signed to be a box to box mid with energy to burn. He was signed to give us that creative spark and help unlock parked buses further forward with a wall of Fab and Hendo and/ or Gini built behind him. How is that going to happen when the "wall" is playing in defence and him at times having to play the 6
role where he cannot influence games? Just asking.

08 Feb 2021 10:20:50
I think you’re absolutely spot on MK we were marginally the better team if you look at the game as a whole probably up to the Ali mistakes.
It was cagey and we weren’t at our best but City offered very little other than a couple of Sterling runs.
Sadio has to score that header and it’s a different game. Just like Salah had to score the early chance against Brighton last week.
I think some are so preoccupied with trying to criticise the way we played that they are losing sight of the fact that City were not that great either. We kind of cancelled each other out and it’s not the first time that’s happened even when we were flying.
I think we’d all say that the 3-1 win against City last season was a huge turning point in us winning the title but that was a close game and on another day the ref gives a pen against Trent and Fabs’ goal is ruled out and we go 1-0 down. Different game.
The margins are so small when we play City so when you are bang in the game and your keeper gifts them 2 goals in a couple of minutes winning becomes impossible. Just as it would’ve been for them if their keeper had made those mistakes.
It is what it is. We move on.

08 Feb 2021 10:21:15
Well why is Thiago playing atm then, because he’s neither creating chances or unlocking anything?
An earlier post summed it perfectly.
It’s a remake of Brendan Rodgers’ hit drama “Death by Football”.
A 38 part serial of intrigue and mystery, a who-dunnit where the answer may only be revealed at the very end.

08 Feb 2021 10:58:41
For me, only 3 of the players who started had bad games yesterday. Wijnaldum offered nothing. Trent got done by Sterling on 3 occasions by the same shoulder drop and feint. He has to learn his lesson after they missed the penalty. You let someone waltz past you 3 times in a game and it'll result in a goal at least once as it did. Lastly and most obviously, Alisson can't gift them 2 goals in 5 minutes. Worse still that it was the exact same mistake both times.

The other 8 players in our team probably didn't deserve to lose. If you think Jones was strolling you are hardly worth discussing the game with as the result has blinded you from individual performances. If Jones hadn't sprinted back to stop Foden when he was through 1 on 1 early in the game we'd have been 1-0 long before the 48th minute.

This is Man City. We were never going to completely dominate them or have no difficult moments. But we were in the game for an hour an looked just as likely to go on and win as they did. You just can't legislate for one of the best keepers in world football giving the ball away in his own penalty area twice. It was a meltdown akin to Karius in Kiev. Alisson has more than enough credit in the bank to be let off one bad game in 3 years though, no matter how frustrating it is that he picked Man City to do it!

08 Feb 2021 11:03:34
Juicer, I will never compare Klopp's team to BR's team cos that is just wrong. BR did not have to contend with what Klopp has had to contend with and even worse, Klopp got BR's players to a League Cup final and a European final so I will let that comparison die a slow death.

Now to your comment, You say Thiago is not unlocking anything or creating any chances. I am sure you know that players like Thiago need movement and runs in front of them so they can thread these pases thru for the strikers to make hay, yeah? Have you seen us do that consistently of note? Have you seen our forwards make those runs even when the spaces were there and even yesterday, the spaces were there and they did/ could not do it. Is that Thiago's fault?

The only times we have done that in the past 2 months were at Utd in the Cup, at Spurs and at WH? Howmany go.

08 Feb 2021 11:13:51
Juicer, pressed send too soon so I will try again. Your comparison of BR to Klopp, is just asinine cos BR did not have to deal with all the probs. Klopp has dealt with and furthermore, BR left Klopp a right mess when he left and got the same players BR said were rubbish, to a League Cup and European final so let that comparison die a slow death, yeah.? BR will NEVER be in Klopp's league.

Now to respond to your comment. You asked why Thiago is not creating or unlocking anything. I am sure you are aware that players like Thiago thrive with movement and runs from attackers ahead of them so they can play the ball into the spaces for them to run into. So tell me, have you seen our forwards do that consistently of late? Did you see that happen yesterday even when the spaces were there? If the answer is no (which it is) then, is that Thiago's fault?

Actually the only times we had runners ahead of Thiago was at Utd in the Cup, at Spurs and at WH. How many goals did we score? 8. How many could we have scored? More. Did Thiago play well in those games vs Spurs and WH? Yes. Even in the derby, he was flawless with his passing cos the movement was there. Listen, you can slam Thiago all you want cos that may make you feel better BUT you cannot deny the very facts I have provided to rebutt your arguments that our issues have absolutely nothing to do with him, IMO. Cheers, bro.

08 Feb 2021 11:30:00
"Jones was strolling". Absolute crap.

08 Feb 2021 11:44:47
Wish I could agree with the last statement MK but I feel its blind optimism my friend. The signs are something is not right. Klopp is constantly getting snarky and biting reporters heads off. If that were Mourinho wed have started to say he's losing the plot a long time ago. Trents interview before the City game just seemed lifeless.

Yes it's a strange tough season. We've had terrible injuries and no fans to contend with. But despite that I still feel like it's been handled poorly. Square pegs have been jammed in round holes too many times. Take a step back and think should we be losing at home to Burnley and Brighton on the bounce? Should our only home goal since before Christmas be a penalty?

Klopp has a lot of credit in the bank to deserve time to put it right next season. But I can't blindly think we'll suddenly get better after a 4-1 home defeat.

08 Feb 2021 16:50:20
Bledd85 in our position and under the current circumstances, we can lose to anyone right now. Examples? Utd with a fully fit squad got absolutely toyed with and outplayed by Sheff. Utd. and completely bottled it vs Everton so we have no given right to win games just by turning up. You have to earn the right to win games and we cannot do that right now cos cannot even compete on an even playing field for obv. reasons. Focusing on lesser teams is futile. Look at the big picture. We are struggling against everyone.

09 Feb 2021 10:28:37
Absolutely correct Oli no team can expect to turn up and just win it has to be earned. But let me ask you this if Phillips had a solid run in the team for a few months and freed up Henderson or Fabinho to go back to midfield would we have had a better chance? Would we also be in a better position if Kabak or Davies was then introduced to play alongside him freeing up another of our midfielders to do what they do best? Would we better off not persisting with Wijnaldum who has literally offered nothing the last few months?

Would you not agree Klopps demeanour with interviews suggest something is amiss? he's gone from rolling with the punches and laughing off stupid questions to having a pop at people for looking at him funny.

Like you said we are struggling against everyone. But the worrying thing is keep doing the same thing expecting to improve.



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