14 Mar 2021 16:13:57
I feel that this squad has massively over achieved for the previous two seasons. Beating Man C to the title w their finances and squad depth was an amazing achievement. The owners needed to back Klopp last summer and replace Lovren. Spending on a CB would have been chump change compared to the loss of revenue finishing further down the league and not being in the CL. So the owners lack of foresight has come back to bite. Yes we've had terrible injuries but season after season they're asking the team to do more with less. Hoping there is some money coming into the squad to address the CB issue.

14 Mar 2021 16:54:50
OP i can't beleive i've just seen you say we over achieved.

Over acheiving is 'to achieve more than is expected'.

You do know that we have had 2 Champions league finals and two wpnderful years in the premiership where we were so far infront of man city and all the others that they did not even bother showing the league table with us in first place.

This has happened because our owners brought in the best manager and let him buy VVD and Alisson for world record amounts.

You do know we are in the champions league QF again.

This is continued success, not over achieving.

If you won a million pounds in the lottery would you complain that it should be 2 million?

14 Mar 2021 17:03:23
They have not over achieved anything. The team and the staff worked insanely hard for what they achieved. Let's not undermine that.

14 Mar 2021 17:11:07
No need to be so condescending. And I don't need to play the lotto to have a couple million for the record. On paper city should win it every year so yes i think that's over achieving. Give us half City's money and they wouldn't touch us. The lack of investing has finally caught up this year is my point. Not criticizing the players. They can't keep doing what they've done w a squad that's not nearly as deep as citys.

14 Mar 2021 17:15:36
So we could have played one cb but we still wouldn't have had another. if it's and buts were candies and nuts we would have won 7th UCL 2 years back not 6th. what has happened has happened we walk on! with hope in our heart! ynwa!

14 Mar 2021 17:33:35
Football games are not played on paper. And that's the beauty of the whole thing.

14 Mar 2021 17:35:08
Redflyer is a multi millionaire chaps. not that he talks about it 😂😂.

14 Mar 2021 17:36:24
I actually thought we underachieved last season, we were that far ahead of everyone else we should of won more trophies.

14 Mar 2021 19:18:01
If your one of the favourites to win at the start and you win how is that over achieving? Leicester winning with starting odds of a 1000-1 is what you would call over achieving.

14 Mar 2021 19:19:10
Our first 11 is as good as anyone. Beyond that we don't have the depth and that's become apparent this season and for me that's on the owners. That's the only point I was trying to make. Speculation/ accumulation etc. Didn't mean to offend w my over achieving comment.

14 Mar 2021 19:46:24
I actually sort of agree with Redflyer. We don't have the depth of squad quality as City and the only reason we have succeeded in the last few seasons is because our main group of players have stayed injury free, pretty much. Our squad depth has been shown up this season with our injuries, hence a major part of the reason for our form.
It seems Klopp put all his eggs into one basket (the core group), but the finances obviously don't cover players that we haven't relied on so much.
Let's be honest, it was the right move, we won trophies that have been missing from our cabinet for years.
So yes, if Klopp did have the finances of City he would knock them out of the park in my opinion and this season wouldn't have been such as a disaster.

14 Mar 2021 19:58:10
I know what you are saying Redflyer. With our salary and spend we should be lower than the likes of City, Utd and Chelsea. In that respect we should be 4th if all went to plan.
But Klopp has a habit of making players play better and reaching higher levels.
But when you get to those levels people expect that to be the norm so others won't see it as over achieving. Same case for Spurs when they had Poch. They over achieved massively for a few years. Lots of their fans felt they could achieve more. They got rid and they are back to where you'd expect.

14 Mar 2021 20:44:07
OP, you are not the only fan who has made the “we massively overachieved in the last two years claim” and like the others before you, that is patently false and the facts and our upward trajectory year after year, is there to prove it. You don’t dethrone a club like City by overachieving on the off ocassion. That is hogwash. It is done by careful and meticulous planning and it took us 3 years to do it, btw.


So FSG us to blame here, yeah? So let me ask you this, had we got a 4th choice CB, would that have prevented all the other CB’s from getting injured or lost fir the season the way they did? Would that have stopped all the other injuries to other players that contributed in crippling our title ambitions this season? Is it FSG’s that our main revenue streams (matchday receipts) dried up due the C.V.? Is FSG to blame for all of this?

There are no quick fixes here, bro. Football happened to us this season and we have to move on and get better. Stop blaming the owners for things like the C.V. that is out of their control. It is becoming a weak argument to make.

14 Mar 2021 22:07:13
Can the owner bashing stop. You know we broke the world record at the time for a keeper in Allison and defender in VVD. The owners have invested but what do you want them to do, spend as if they have the resources of the City owners. Its like you spending the money you earn from your job on a house, a car, supporting your family just general living expenses. The assets you own are of a good standard and importantly within your means in relation to the wage you receive. Now your significant other is constantly on your back complaining why they are not living in Chelsea, driving a Lamborghini and flying around in a private jet as opposed to a standard flight. You know how that sounds? Well, it sounds ungrateful and unappreciative and that’s how some of our fans come across at times. Are the owners perfect, no and have they made mistakes, yes but they have invested in this squad. Also it’s not as if they could have predicted this amount of injuries or the C. V. C.V. and it’s crippling impact on the finances.

14 Mar 2021 22:54:25
I don't understand "OP" so if someone could enlighten me. Overachieving. wasn't really the point I was making. By definition, it is to excel and beat the rest, to stand out and rise to the top. That's all I meant by that. I don't think we played above ourselves or exceeded expectations. We deserved all we got through hard work, coaching, recruitment, etc. So please take it easy on the overacheiving and thanks I'll take my licks for misquoting or misrepresenting what i meant. The owners have done an amazing job taking the club to where we should be. BUT, by not investing last summer in someone to replace Lovren I think that's hurt us big time. Oli, FSG to blame? Look we have suffered unprecedented injuries to our CBs. Matip and Gomez are injury prone and so to me we went into the season w 2 fit CBs: Virgil and Matip/ Gomez making 2 CBs for me not 3. Obviously Fab was the one they saw as 4th. City saw the diff Virgil made for us and recruited Diaz who's been a sensation and made all others around him better. No question about that. All teams have CV issues but Chelsea, Spurts, United, city all recruited. We did not. To stay ahead you have to adapt and we didn't do that this season due to injuries and recruitment (one CB) . So, not blaming the owners for CV but they should have bought a CB. Not spending 30m or so on one will cost the club massively is PL and CL revenue this season and next. So yes I blame the owners on that one and I'll bet Klopp does too. What's crippled our title ambitions this year is Klopp not trusting phillips since he came in against Newcastle and not playing Fab at 6. He hasn't put a foot wrong. Too much focus on a defense that isn't as bad as it's made out to be. We already look a different side w fab at 6.

{Ed0666's Note - try and use paragraphs please mate.

14 Mar 2021 23:01:35
OP original poster. got it.

14 Mar 2021 23:18:28
Oli, are receipts only down 10% or so for the year? Huge Nike deal etc so finances haven't been hit as hard as they could have been. So I'd suggest the argument for asking Klopp and the players to keep at it w less and maintain the standards set the last two seasons is definitely on the owners. We most likely lose top 4 this year now so what 50m for next season gone? How much lost this season for a lower league finish? Will our targets come this season if we not in the CL? CV isn't to blame for our league position. All teams are in the same boat.

14 Mar 2021 23:54:50
I despise all this talk of ‘it’s the owners fault’ and ‘our squad isn’t good enough’ it’s all rubbish. Our squad is absolutely fine and we have players that can fill in when others are injured or need a rest. We signed Jota for the front 3 positions, Thiago for midfield and Tsimikas to cover left back at a time when the owners were seriously concerned about their finances and that of the club. At the start of the season we were well stocked with decent players to cover every position.
As long as injuries remain at a normal level and you just have to bring in the squad players to cover for the odd game or a few weeks here and there and not too many of them at once we’d be fine and I’m sure still near City or probably ahead of them. Remember Barcelona with Origi and Shaq coming in for Salah and Bobby? It works as long as you don’t have to do it long term.
What you can’t plan for is ending up having to play 5 or 6 squad players for most of the season. We’ve actually gone beyond playing squad players and have resorted to U23 players and players we failed to get rid of in the summer! Klopp has also tried dismantling a midfield to cover the CB positions but then they have got injured too!
Even City couldn’t cope with the level of injuries we’ve had without having a significant drop off. You remember when they lost Laporte and their team fell apart?
If we somehow managed to get top 4 this season with a team patched together with kids, rejects and squad players then THAT would be over achieving.
We all know that with everyone fit and even a few squad players getting games here and there to cover for injuries and loss of form (which is what they are really there for) we are a match for anyone in the world.

{Ed0666's Note - I respect what you’re saying but my chagrin with the owners is that if we had an experienced or proper centre back ready to go on Jan 1st maybe we would have a few more points and in a proper race for top 4 and not hoping for the sides above us to slip up game after game. Sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate.

15 Mar 2021 01:51:03
Remember that the owners are paying for the training ground and upgrade to Anfield. Stop bashing them. They invest in the squad. It is still possible to finish top 4 and win UCL.
Quit bitching.

15 Mar 2021 09:01:39
Reflyer, you fail to answer the questions I asked. Would buying a CB have prevented the injuries we had from happening? Also, you can try to slice and dice it as much as you want we did not have the money to spend as much as we wanted to this year esp. since we did not spend near any money the summer before, due to C. V and the impact it had on our finances. The way our club is run is no news to anyone paying attention to these things on here. This has been repeated ad nauseum so unless you are a new poster, you cannot claim ignorance about this so not arsed about the whole "receipts are 10% down" schstick.

Gate receipts are our principal revenue stream. That is a fact. So how can we be down 10% in gate receipts when there are NO fans in the stadium? Also, you do not know what Klopp was asked to do by the owners. That is just you projecting so I will dismiss your piece of info there as just you making stuff up based on the narrative you want to push. Yeah, we should have moved players out. Who was going to sign them with no money due to the C.V.? We were only able to sign players cos Wolves and Bayern agreed to our structured payment terms. W/ O that, they would not be here and then, you would really have lost your marbles had that happened.

City with all their money could not survive ONE CB being out for half a season YET you are trying to blame FSG for not being Nostradamus regarding the level of injuries/ foreknowledge of the C.V. and for not having deep pockets like you know, City do. Dias and Carlos (Klopp's choice) cost 65m so how were we supposed to afford that with NO funds? This is the height of intellectual dishonesty, IMO.

For the upteenth time, the FSG bashing is nothing but a weak, tired attempt to assign blame for a situation that NOBODY could have planned for ahead of time (C. V and the insane injury crisis) . As Ed01 put it, this a likeable to having a natural disaster. No matter how yo plan for it, if it comes heavier than anticipated, it will look like you did not have a plan coming in. That is what happened here. Your scapegoating and blame-shifting is just a weak attemt to pin this season on someone. Weak, as hell.

15 Mar 2021 11:03:42
You do know that Liverpool, Klopp and the owners pushed for CB this last summer but the targets we wanted were not available. And for all we know during klopps time he doesn't fancy buying for the sake of buying unless it's one of his targets. We've seen that not once or twice. So you saying it's on the owners for not trying is completely wrong. We needed a class front 3 cover we've got Jota, we needed a lb cover we've got Tsimikas, we needed a class playmaker and got Thiago, we needed a CB cover no-one of our targets were made available so we passed on and probably the idea was to go for it again in the summer. Pitty 3 of our starting cbs got season ending injuries 2 of wich early on in the season. Did you expect that to happen? I clearly didn't, neither Klopp and the staff I am sure about that. All this moaning is unnecessary, especially now. People must of forgotten what YNWA means. Klopp and FSG has done an amazing amazing job and whoever says differently, sadly, is not a fan but a glory hunter or whatever.

15 Mar 2021 15:22:48
Oli, had a busy weekend and now back to work. I didn't anticipate such a response lol. Injuries: unprecedented and I don't know how they could have been avoided whether we signed one or not. Most teams competing for the top would have addressed it Jan 1 if not beginning of the season knowing Matip and Gomez don't have a good history of staying fit. The owners have done an amazing job that's not a debate, but to stay at the top they should have lined someone up Jan 1 not 31. We were top of the league the week before. I like the model we have ie not throwing money around like some teams but c'mon the CB issue is a massive one that needed solving. Not trying to have a moan just a debate. Opinions are like backsides we all have one. As for YNWA, I've been watching Liverpool play since the 70s.