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26 Apr 2021 23:37:55
I have to say that I don't get the big Love-ins with Kabak. As a young lad been dropped into our situation, in a new country etc he's done v well but Nat Phillips has been a huge loss for the last 2 games and neither Kabak or Fabinho have covered him. Neither of the late goals v Leeds and Newcastle would have been conceded if Nat was on the pitch. Surely he has to be kept as 4th choice, regardless of the fact that we don't have to pay for him, his performances have deserved it.

Agree3 Disagree0

27 Apr 2021 00:09:35
I agree that Phillips has been a miss. but come one man. this is like saying so and so and wouldn't have missed that chance. it's simply not true. I am sure Phillips would have been helpful but he wouldn't have been positioned where Gayle won that header and then there is no guarantee that he would have been any tighter to willock to prevent his shot.

27 Apr 2021 06:59:27
There is certainly no Kabak love in. Phillips is a limited footballer as well both not good enough at this level. 5th choices is their level.

27 Apr 2021 07:40:49
Dwight Gayle only ever seems to have a good fake against us. The sooner he retires the better.

27 Apr 2021 08:21:57
We haven't missed Phillips in defence anywhere near as much as we've missed Fabinho in midfield.

Klopp has to take responsibility for the last 2 results. He should have learned by now that Fabinho is a liability in the back 4. Rhys Williams or Ben Davies should've played and there is absolutely no excuses as to why they didn't. We have the best holding midfielder in Europe and arguably the best keeper. Williams was trusted earlier in the season against teams like Arsenal and Tottenham so there is no reason why he couldn't have played against Newcastle and Leeds.

27 Apr 2021 08:42:28
I’d happily have Kabak and Phillips in the squad next season. Kabak is what 21? And he’s performing to a decent level. Joe Gomez probably performed at a similar level at this age.
If we sign Kabak permanently then I hope he gets a chance next to VVD.
VVD, Konate, Gomez, 2 of Matip/ Davies/ Phillips/ Kabak. (Matip seems likely to move on)

{Ed077's Note - around 18m on aplayer to be 4th choice at best (in your scenario)?? It doesnt make muh financial sense to me, specially with him not being homegrown.}

27 Apr 2021 08:44:30
I am really worried that C.V. and injuries will be used to gloss over this season’s inadequacies and failures. We should not be wasting a penny on Kabak, he is limited at best. Phillips is giving a 110% every game but is unlikely to have a better season than this in his career at Liverpool, game time wise. Do we want to keep either for 4th or 5th choice?
Our forwards lack of natural goal scorers instinct is highlighting our need for a striker. I thought Jota might be that player but he has been afflicted by the wingers and false 9’s lack of confidence. They are not even pressing anymore, what is happening?
All of this highlights Klopp’s stubbornness to change. His insistence on playing Fabinho out of position because neither Kabak or Phillips can be counted on to play with Davies. Fabinho is not a great CB but the chasm his absence leaves in midfield just destroys our team play.
The square pegs in round holes only works when you have 11 fit first teamers, who are well-drilled, full of confidence and energy.
We do not have that luxury this season, at least two players have suffered visibly from the after effects of C.V. and Klopp has stuck to his modus operandi.
Only a fool repeats the same mistakes over and over expecting a different result. Klopp is nobody’s fool but his decisions this season are alarming. I know it has been a tough time for him personally but he has a support team to help him. I though Ljinders would be a great successor and I don’t know how much input he has on training or team selection but would it make any difference now if things changed anyway?
Top 4 has gone. No Champions League next season and getting back into it when you are playing Europa League on Thursday night is, as we know, extremely difficult.
We have a difficult season ahead. It is not going to be all wonderful just by having VVD and Henderson back. Klopp needs to change the way we play, make us unpredictable and relentless again. I don’t see how he can do this and retain both of the current CBs, without weeding out the sick notes and passengers and more importantly keeping Firmino and Mane.
Great Liverpool sides replaced players when they were on the cusp of the wane. Bad Liverpool sides cling on to them out of nostalgia.
I hope this side is not the latter.

27 Apr 2021 09:15:45
Ed077, don't you think we should be cautious though? Virgil and Gomez might not even come back the same players. I can think of multiple examples of ACL injuries where it took years or simply never happened. Falcao, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Owen etc.

We need at least 5 senior centre backs next season. Especially if Konate is the first choice player we sign. After how it destroyed our season this time around it would be borderline negligence to only keep 3 or 4.

{Ed077's Note - I see your point but 18m or so on a 4th choice is too steep when money is already very tight IMO. I dont think signing Konate for rumoured 30-35m and Kabak for 18m or so doesnt make much sense. Only one of the 2 would be sensible in my view. Wouldnt it be better to have one of Davies, Rhys or the academy lads be the 5th choice with Phillips as 4th choice?}

27 Apr 2021 09:23:36
Hopefully next season it'll be VVD, IB, JG, NP. Matip to be moved on Kabak sent back, Ben Davies sold so he can play football.

27 Apr 2021 09:26:48
OP, I don't know where you are getting this love-in from or do you think there is a love-in cos people think Kabak is good enuff and you don't? So if I disagree with you on a player, I have a love-in for that player? Chill out, bro.

MKS, I disagree. It is easy to say Klopp should have done this or that BUT you seem to forget how dreadful Williams was when he was playing. He is slower than me, bad knees and all that and as for Davies, NOBODY has seen him play so that is not even worth my time to discuss.

Also, you think Klopp is blind and cannot see that Fab is not good at CB anymore? He needed you or me or the hindsight experts on here to tell him that? Take a chill pill, bro. Klopp played a more attacking lineup in the hope of creating chances, score the goals as a way of protecting the defence that was vulnerable. Had the forwards done their jobs, this is a non story. That is the reality and hindsight means nothing.

27 Apr 2021 09:55:51
Ed077, Williams would be better off on loan or in the u23's for another year (i wouldn't give up on him just yet) . Matip has to be sold though. Davies can't get a kick so might as well sell him too. I am starting to think Davies was just a wax model they had made to calm the fans down in January. Has anyone ever seen him play before? Has anyone seen anything of him other than still shots in training? 👀

I'd say our defenders next season should be Virgil, Konate, Kabak, Phillips and Gomez. I can easily see the club capitalising on Phillips form though and making a quick profit if Klopp thinks Billy Koumetio is ready. The club are pouring a lot of coaching resource into developing Billy if you follow the socials and LFC tv. He maybe is seem as the long term successor to Van Dijk?

I don't see Phillips and Kabak being linked at all. It's not one or the other in my opinion. Klopp clearly trusts Kabak though and the noises the coaches are making are all positive. I feel like Kabak has done well personally. He's better than Gomez was at the same age, and that's without Van Dijk to carry him. It's really difficult to come into a new country, new club, and be asked to play alongside whoever is fit that week. All at 20 years old too.

{Ed077's Note - but Davies in a way strengths my point. 4th/5th choice cbs wont get enough gametime to justify spending around 18-20m on them. I dont see much sense in buying both Konate and Kabak unless 2 of VVD, Gomez, Matip and Phillips leave.}

27 Apr 2021 10:03:01
Ed 77 let’s be real €18m is nottin in this day n age if I compare the crap we’ve sold in the last few years solanke Brewster?

{Ed077's Note - but on a 4th/5th choice player it is still a considerable sum to be spending on when funds are already tight IMO.}

27 Apr 2021 10:07:06
Oli, i'm not saying Williams or Davies are good enough. I'm saying that the issue is having Fabinho absent in midfield. If you watch Leeds and Newcastle games back you'll see the exact same pattern. Around 60-70 minutes our midfield ran out of steam and lost control of the game. Then the opposition was able to put our defence under continuous pressure until they broke through.

Fabinho in midfield would prevent us losing complete control of the midfield. We haven't won a game in 2021 with Fabinho in defence. That is all there is to it. This isn't hindsight. Everyone has been saying it for months. Davies and Williams don't have to be better than Fabinho in defence. Fabinho just has to be better than Wijnaldum in the holding role. Which he is. Infinitely so.

27 Apr 2021 10:19:28
Should sack Klopp then if he can't see what all you geniuses are spotting so easily.

27 Apr 2021 10:36:58
I don’t think kabak will be classed as 4/ 5th choice more of a your next in line vvd must be 30 and no saying what this last injury going to do to him going forward. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Philips go the opposite way as a makeweight. I reckon a season training with the big boys and it will different kabak.

27 Apr 2021 10:48:30
I’d rather spend the18 mill plus on replacing gini.

27 Apr 2021 10:49:15
Klopp isn't to blame . The forwards are to blame. The amount of chances they are missing is unbelievable. And if Fabinho is a liability at centre back then I don't know what that makes Rhys Williams.

27 Apr 2021 10:55:38
I think Fabs should p;lay CB, but this infant like tantrum at Klopp for not playing him there it OTT for me. No excuse to not play Davies or Williams at the back? two fellahs who haven't barely had a kick? yeah let's just slot them straight in next to another kid who has no idea where he needs to be on the pitch. Good idea that.
Klopp has to make the calls and have the balls to live by them. I can reason with playing Fab at the back once Phillips was out. Has Williams or Davies even trained alongside Kabak? Sounds like a dream match-up that.

27 Apr 2021 10:58:09
MKS, I am not disputing anything you have said in your response to my post cos I agree with it cos well, you are stating the obvious. What I am saying which you did not address, is what was Klopp supposed to do? If you think Davies and Williams were good enuff in any way then a) That is your opinion which Klopp clearly disagrees with and so do I cos ONLY Klopp would know if either Williams or Davies are even serviceable enuff at best OR b) Klopp already knows that Fab is better at DM (not sure he needed you or me to tell him that) hence, went for a more attacking lineup to create and score enuff goals to keep the defence protected. That did not happen for again, obv. reasons so again, not sure where you see the mistake here.

Now if you think Klopp made a mistake cos he did not do what you wanted/ or would have done then, you have a diff. of opinion with him or with me cos I understand what he did and agree with it esp. with Phillips being injured, Williams is too soft, has no pace and can be bullied and Davies who we have NEVER seen play. Having a diff. of opinion is not a mistake, IMO.

27 Apr 2021 10:58:02
I agree with ed077s point, my only issue is whether we can classify Davies as 4th or 5th choice? Does not seem like klopp does?

I suppose the question is whether klopp and the club deem a kabak and gomez partnership as a potential first team partnership in 5 or six years time. If they do then the fee for kabak for me is acceptable. If not then ed077 is spot on.

27 Apr 2021 10:48:42
Ed077, i'd agree with you under normal circumstances. It is abnormal to have your 2 first choice centre backs returning from a year out with a major knee injury though. If even just one of them breaks down again early in the season, we'd be back to a situation where we had 2 or 3 centre backs having to play every game. We are most likely going to be in the Europa League as well which is incredibly intense towards the back end of the season with there being a round of 32 inexplicably sandwiched into the schedule.

We have to account for the recent injuries. Van Dijk and Gomez are not little blokes. One sharp turn with a 90kg mass on their knee ligaments could be curtains for another season. We can't simply cross our fingers that they'll come straight back with no issues at the same level they were 12 months ago.

As i said, i think Phillips might be allowed to leave if Koumetio performs well in pre-season. If they think Billy needs more time though it would be irresponsible to rely on the fitness of 2 players with major knee injuries in the last year, as well as possibly Konate who has had serious muscle problems in the last year.

I'd like us to rotate Virgil, Gomez and Konate in the Premier League. Then utilise Kabak and Phillips/ Koumetio in the cup competitions. Of course people are also ignoring another possibility that Klopp might see us playing a back 3 going forward? Our biggest creative threats are Robbo and Trent, so it stands to reason that pushing them further forward and asking them to cover less ground might help prevent them from another burnout like we've seen this season, whilst also helping us in front of goal. Nobody really knows what will happen i guess.

{Ed077's Note - if you have to bring someone else in because you dont trust Konate's fitness then maybe he shouldnt be brought in, in the first place. I dont see much sense in selling Phillips and bringing in Kabak. It will be net financial loss in my view without that big, if any, of an upgrade. Surely LFC can find a cheaper alternative to be 4th/5th choice ideally.}

27 Apr 2021 11:30:58
Oli, you are aware this is a football forum, right? The whole reason sites like this exist are for us to express opinions. I think Klopp is making mistakes this season. I do not want him sacked, but his continued selection of Wijnaldum not only in the team, but often as captain is infuriating. Also when our record is so blatantly poor with Fabinho in defence I cannot support playing him there. Find another solution. He talked up Robertson as a possible centre back earlier in the year? Play him there and give Tsimikas or Williams a go at left back. I'm not saying it WOULD have been better. But Klopp persisting with the same things that definitely DO NOT work is bad management in my opinion. Fabinho has to play in midfield (that's been clear for months now) and i would mess around with any other part of the team before i removed him from the centre of the park.

That's my subjective view. Like it or not. Move on and don't get worked up by it.

27 Apr 2021 11:33:41
Ed077, i wouldn't sign Konate if i were in charge for that exact reason. I won't open up that can of worms though as we're not allowed to disagree with the experts in today's society 🤐.

{Ed077's Note - I have my reservations on Konate myself. Not to do with his playing ability but his fitness. But that is for the medics to decide on. After all LFC didnt go through with the deals for Remy and Fekir largely due to fitness concerns.}

27 Apr 2021 12:00:05
Ed077 please don’t ever mention Rhys Williams and chance in the same sentence. Gives me nightmares and cold sweats for days.

{Ed077's Note - I am hoping he plays against us this weekend ;-)}

27 Apr 2021 12:06:33
Chill your roll, MKS. No one talked about Klopp getting sacked. You did. No one was talking about whether Klopp has made mistakes or not. You did. Robertson at CB? Again, you brought all this stuff up, not me.

We have a diff. of opinion on this topic based on Klopp's decision on Fab in def. or not at the weekend. You are the one dragging other stuff into it. Take your own advise, mate.

27 Apr 2021 12:21:12
ordinarily I'd be with 77 here. but I think that the club may carry an additional senior CB given we have VVD and Gomez coming back from long term injuries. whether that means keeping Kabak I don't know. Assuming Konate is coming in and Matip is going, it could be that we keep Phillips and Davies as 4th and 5th choice. It'd be excessive in normal cases but may be worth it given it'd just be one season on from this shocker of a season injury-wise.

27 Apr 2021 13:22:50
Klopp advocated the sale of Lovren and decided to not replace him. Lovren was too injury prone, Matip is too injury prone. So who do we buy? Another injury prone CB.


If VVD and Gomez return to full fitness and 100% of the player they were pre-injury I will be so happy. And amazed.

Kabak will not be a 4th/ 5th place CB next season and that is what scares me. Even more so, is he is unlikely to have VVD alongside him coaching him through games, especially if Virg goes to the Euros.

Guess we will have to wait and see but I do not envisage a combo of Kabak/ Konate/ Phillips at the back for large parts of the season see us contend for the Prem title.

{Ed077's Note - Klopp didnt "decide" to not replace Lovren, they just couldnt find a good enough deal with very very little funds.}

27 Apr 2021 13:56:12
True Ed077, i'm sure they'll leave no stone unturned with Konate's fitness. Always have a degree of doubt though when you think somebody carried out a medical on Matip and gave it the thumbs up!

{Ed077's Note - maybe the fact that it was a "free" transfer meant a few liberties were taken? Also did Matip have similar injury issues at Schalke? Sometimes its just one of those things..}

27 Apr 2021 15:13:23
Joel Matip played 41 games for Schalke in the season before he joined Liverpool, why would he have failed a medical?

{Ed077's Note - you can have underlying issues that can lead to a "failed" medical, a bit like what happened with Loic Remy at LFC.}

27 Apr 2021 16:03:19
It was just a tongue in cheek joke Ed077.

{Ed077's Note - my bad. Or I'm just a bit slow lol :-)}

27 Apr 2021 18:28:26
We don’t have £50 to spend on CB’s end of story.

27 Apr 2021 17:59:08
No worries man. Enjoyed debating this with you. You remind me of Ed025. Are you his great grandson?

{Ed077's Note - I am obviously not that old. Not every slow person has to be related to Ed025 lol ;-P}

27 Apr 2021 19:33:47
I’d agree with most of what you said MK apart from Fabinho being a liability at the back. He’s actually a very good CB and outside of our first choice 3 is the best we have right now.
The problem is that we don’t have another DM especially when Hendo is out too. If Hendo was fit we’d get much better protection from him allowing Fabs to play at the back. With Hendo out though, Fabs has to play in midfield. No matter which combination of players are at CB he just had to play in midfield. End of. I’d even consider putting Wijnaldum at CB ahead of Fabs just to keep Fabs in midfield. It’s essential and the last 2 games have shown us why.
I like you, am a bit baffled as to how Klopp keeps making the same mistakes and getting the same results.

28 Apr 2021 10:56:15
Players get slaughtered viciously on here at times. So reading "love-ins" is quite refreshing actually. With the objections that come along to the slaughtering and loving. Somebody always has something to say. 😁.



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