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18 May 2022 14:46:11
I trust and hope any interest we ever had in Sarr is well and truly over. He has publicly posted support for Gueye.

Agree0 Disagree0

18 May 2022 15:03:51
He's also just not very good. No better than Zaha, D. James, Iwobi or Pepe. One of those players who's legs are too quick for their brains and thus the ball bounces off them. He will never be top class let alone world class.

Now we know he's not even a top class human to make up for his lack of quality.

18 May 2022 15:25:16
The only “main” source that I can see, is the Daily Fail. Not exactly the leading lights of equality and truth themselves.

18 May 2022 15:34:19
How does that affect anything? For me, this is purely a religious issue and I think they have the right to religion. The world will never align with a perspective to life. So long as these people don't attack those in the LGBT category and show them respect, I don't see how Gueye or whoever have done anything wrong.

{Ed001's Note - it is nothing to do with religion at all. It is bigotry, not religion.}

18 May 2022 15:44:28
I’m not sure having an opinion and supporting Gueye is such a crime. The man has religious beliefs he wants to adhere to. In the US, I always say to myself “either I believe in the constitution or I dont”. Just as I personally support freedom of sexuality, religion, etc, I also support the right to distance yourself from them. Otherwise it is not freedom.

And for the record, it would be different if he were openly bashing/ participating in hate. He simply refused to wear a jersey.

I would also like to say that the company (in this case PSG) would be in their rights to terminate employment. But at the same time, that is a VERY dangerous path to go down. Should they be allow to terminate any employee for being gay…or Muslim? Of course not.

Just my 2 cents.

18 May 2022 16:10:51
My point better worded TjRed.

18 May 2022 16:25:38
Free speech and all that.

18 May 2022 16:37:09
To us it is bigotry ed001. I agree. But To them, the lines are not so clear. And unfortunately they don’t have to be. I grew up in the Bible Belt south - there are those that are vehement that basically anything LGBTQ results in a one way ticket to the fire. I also know gay people that are active church goers. Just goes to show how much people differ.

{Ed001's Note - it is bigotry. It is nothing to do with religion and only ignorance allows it to persist.}

18 May 2022 17:43:19
He refused to wear the shirt, didn't he? Why is that? He's allowed his views and freedom of speech but he can't decide what he wears and what he doesn't.
I'm sure some of you would have something to say if Salah or van Dijk made themselves unavailable for Sunday or the CL final.

18 May 2022 17:47:25
Religion being used to justify bigotry is still bigotry. Ed1 has nailed his response. And as for free speech, no speech is free. All speech has its cost. For those players who feel it’s ok to be a bigot the cost will be the ability to earn their full potential. I’m sure PSG are having a PR nightmare at the moment and other large clubs will think twice now before signing players who support the same bigotry.

18 May 2022 17:58:34
I’m a muslim ( And a moderately religious one) and it is widely believed that homosexuality is a sin. So I do understand where these players are coming from. Although I don’t agree with their stance, I do understand the thought process behind it. I don’t support it but I do understand it, if that makes any sense.

18 May 2022 17:28:10
What Ed said 100%.

18 May 2022 18:09:11
I think it’s a classic case of certain people having absolutely no clue as to where their rights start and where they end.

When combating bigotry or any backwards logic, you have to be considerate of the information available to certain individuals when choosing how to approach them. In the case of Gueye, it can be no surprise that a man who grew up in a country that forbids homosexuality is going to have been exposed to significantly different information than I have been here in England.

That said, that is about as far as my sympathy for Gueye goes. He now finds himself living in a country that is more socially liberal than his own, and he expect to be open to criticism (or worse) if he does not adhere to the standards and ethics set in that country.

None of us would go to Singapore and cry arse about not being allowed to use chewing gum, nor would we play the ‘free speech and religious expression’ card if we went to somewhere like Saudi Arabia or Dubai and had to dress a certain way and adhere to certain customs, lest we get in trouble.

None of which is even comparable the Gueye situation, as he hasn’t even been prosecuted for his actions, nor does he face the possibility of such a thing happening. I absolutely can’t stand it when people just chuck out ‘free speech’ or ‘it’s a free country’ with absolutely no conception of where peoples rights start and end. Like ‘free speech’ does also include the the right to criticise you know? You don’t just get to say and do whatever you want, illegal or not, without being held accountable. It goes both ways. That also goes as far as being sacked by your employer for such behaviour; that’s simply the Marketplace of Ideas reacting to, well, your antiquated and inappropriate ideas. Just as you have a right to free speech, your employer also reserves the right to criticise, discipline and even fire you as consequence for your free speech. Nobody is unaccountable.

What’s more, the misconception of rights extends to the realms of religious expression. Your religious expression should begin and end with your own individual sense of self, and that alone. If someone wishes to take a break at work for prayer, or not work on a specific day for the sabbath, or not be exposed to pork or alcohol by their colleagues, then they are completely reasonable comprises to make as they only apply to you. What you do not have the right to do is make others at your workplace, or the millions of people across the world who pay your wages through their patronage towards your line of entertainment, uncomfortable by your senseless and inappropriate actions.

Being bigoted towards other people is not a valid form of religious expression, nor is it anything to do with religion at all. It is not illegal to sack or discipline someone for being a homophobe. I don’t claim to be an expert on Islam but I do know that plenty of people around the world practice their faith without being homophobes, and the rules per country differ wherever you go. It is not one consistent rule across all of Islam across the world, which clearly indicates it is entirely down to socio-political climate in certain societies, rather than being a core tenet of any religion. Indeed, it wasn’t long ago that this was the case in this country as well, but as economies grow, standards of living rise, the general population have more access to education and are liberalised, these things quickly change. All of a sudden it isn’t such an important tenet of religion when those things take place, thus proving that it was simply a societal prejudice that was weaponised by some questionably interpreted passages in whatever religious text is relevant in that particular country.

Nobody can stop Gueye, Sarr or anybody else being bigoted, but they need to accept criticism and consequences for their actions, they need to accept that cultural standards in other countries are very different from their country of birth, they need to accept their right to religious expression does not give them the right to oppress or upset other people just minding their own business, and they need to accept that sometimes, all you need to do is listen and learn.

18 May 2022 17:28:10
What Ed said 100%.

18 May 2022 18:40:28
As soon as you’re forced to do something it’s wrong, if someone doesn’t want to wear a rainbow shirt or take a knee then that’s choice irrespective of their reason behind it. Rainbow laces and rainbow shirts do about as much for LGBT as Derick down the road flying his ukraines flag does to stop the war. I’m sorry I can’t get behind pointless statements however the young lad from Blackpool gets my full respect and support, him coming out will go a lot further for gay footballers than some pointless sentiment. Likewise taking the knee only encourages the idiots in the stands. Players need to walk off and abandon the game if players are suffering racial or homophobic abuse. Until something is do proactive nothing will change.

18 May 2022 19:15:18
Live and let live. Good luck to them, aslong as they aren’t hurting anyone, people should just be able to do what they believe.
We’re here for a short space of time, just do what makes you happy. If you want to come out as gay, do it!
if you don’t want to wear a rainbow, don’t.
Do you man!

18 May 2022 19:26:28
I agree with you Ed. It is bigotry. But What you think is bigotry may be totally different to someone else. What if certain people started accepting pedophilia? Would it be bigotry to speak out against pedophiles then? I know I’d speak out.

They are both issues of sexuality no?

18 May 2022 19:28:38
Woolback for PM.

18 May 2022 19:53:31
Funniest part is. He did the same thing last season. There was NO MEDIA COVERAGE. not one iota was mentioned AT ALL. Let that sink in. msm manipulation once again. Convenient has its pride season again.

18 May 2022 20:02:58
Guaye was more than happy to wear chang and a betting company sponsors when playing in the Premier league so going against his religious beliefs is not an excuse if he cared that much he wouldn't have worn sponsor's that went against his faith. He's clearly just a homophobic a##ehole.

18 May 2022 20:08:28
When you’re comparing pedophiles with gay people, I really don’t see how there can be a reasonable debate on this.

Fact is, this thread alone shows how much of a controversial topic this still is. And how far we still have to go.

18 May 2022 20:15:21
TjRed - I think that when we talk about homosexuals, we are talking about those have sexual or romantic relationships on a consensual basis with those of consenting age, pedophiles exploit and have sex with minors leaving them and their families with emotional scars for the rest of their lives. Not sure it's apples for apples there.

Completely agree with Eds on this one, it is bigotry, regardless of religion or otherwise. Countries and religions have had to move on from what the texts once taught, including the views on homosexuality or otherwise.

I also think it is hypocritical that they are happy to take the money that homosexual fans and other gender types contribute as part of their salaries, but not for the fans to make decisions that don't impact those players' lives whatsoever. I'd love to know whether these types of things are haram or not.

What I also don't like seeing is when you see people like Kouyate chirping in calling Gueye a real man for these views either, as it makes out that anything that deviates from that are not real men.

Wish I was as elegant as Woolback's post!

18 May 2022 20:24:39
Spot on, Ed. It is bigotry using religion as a shield. Disgraceful!

18 May 2022 19:32:22
He was willing to wear a shirt with betting and alcohol advertising on though.

18 May 2022 19:39:47
Muslims are anti-LGBT, but in the context of Western countries, they voice their opinion with self-restraint and do not go around abusing gays and lesbians. Forcing Muslims to come out in support of LGBT is oppression, because it does not solve any problem (i. e. if Muslims are not abusing homosexuals then there is no public interest in forcing them to come out in support of LGBT), in fact it creates a new problem, whereby an already ostracised minority is further persecuted for upholding a value which is central to their belief system.

Anti-LGBT abuse is prevalent amongst white working class folk. So any intelligent LGBT campaign should target the problem community, not the Muslim minority.

Don't forget that France is already persecuting its Muslim population by fining women for wearing a veil, and forcing leaders of mosques to publicly disown parts of their belief system. This is the highest level of nonviolent oppression and is not much different from what the Chinese are doing to Uyghur minority Muslims.

Anybody who thinks Gueye is a bigot is totally clueless. Clueless about how colonial mindsets continue to impact minorities to this day. And clueless about how a Western secular Liberal society should balance the competing freedoms between its persecuted minority groups.

This is an appalling PR stunt by PSG. Is the irony lost that PSG is owner by the people who run a country which punishes homosexuals? Clearly this is not a serious campaign, just a poorly thought out PR stunt.

18 May 2022 20:29:30
It shows we’re trying to force people to change, that will never end well, look how far we’ve come, it wasn’t that long ago the being gay was illegal. We’re taking massive strides forcing people to accept things does as much harm as it does good. Plus you have the idiots that are trying to push trans gender athletes.

18 May 2022 20:55:23
Ah yes. The first person to say “comparing homosexuality to pedophilia”. It was an example. You read what you want to read. Insert any -philia and the point remains. Everyone has their beliefs and limits. You jump to that conclusion because you are on auto pilot.

18 May 2022 21:14:24
Mad thread this one.
Quite a lot of people on here need a good word with themselves, or an actual gay person.

18 May 2022 21:16:16
And. back to football.

18 May 2022 21:20:05
He needs to go to a re education camp. There can be no dissension to the alphabet cult in the New World Order.

18 May 2022 23:12:00
It comes down to choice. He has a choice as to weather he supports a cause or not. As to weather he wears an item of sports wear supporting that cause or not. He choose not to due to his personal beliefs telling him that that particular cause is wrong.

Weather you and me agree with him is irrelevant as we do not get to decide what he believes. Now the fact that he may pick and choose what he believes from the religion that informs his every day behaviour is a different matter. In for a penny in for a pound seems to not apply here what with him wearing shirts advertising book makers in the past. But on this all that can be said is he made a personal choice . One which he believes is right. And unfortunately or not, depending on your view there are many millions more who support him.

18 May 2022 23:28:20
Our history on this Planet is nothing but a series of New World Orders (speaking broadly) ; one after the other.

19 May 2022 00:54:49
TjRed.
One is illegal, the other isn't in most countries that aren't full of bigots.

19 May 2022 01:05:15
@TJRed - you are the person who drew that ludicrous comparison, and that stigma, that negativity, that borderline criminality (which used to be out and out criminality) is something the gay community have had to deal with for a long time. It is a terrible comparison to make and, except for both terms having connotations with regards to sex, is completely unrelated. Homosexuality is not in any way illegal or criminal, pedophilia is. Homosexuality has no relation to non consensual, exploitative, emotionally scarring experiences, pedophilia does. An objection to homosexuality has zero moral basis, religious practice is no excuse for out and out bigotry. Like many things in all religions people are very selective about what they do and don’t condone. Picking on choosing based on one’s own bigotry is flat out wrong and should never be celebrated. Hiding behind the banner of free speech does not wash.

@pegleg - free speech is not free of consequence, certain actions and publicly stated opinions will have consequences and, in a world that is becoming far more tolerant and accepting, homophobic stances will not be free from this. Do people have the right, the freedom, to have and vocalize such opinions? Yes. But then they should also understand that such publicly stated stances are not free from criticism and/ or repercussion. These effects apply to us all - If I was to publicly state a racist or homophobic opinion I would not expect to keep my job, for example. You cannot have your cake and eat it, if you exercise your freedom of speech expect others to exercise theirs as well, even if that comes in the form of condemnation of your own.

19 May 2022 03:18:15
AW, very well said mate.

{Ed001's Note - agreed brilliant post by AW.}

19 May 2022 06:44:09
Seano, not for one second have I mentioned free speech. However you shouldn’t question someone’s reasons for not doing something because it goes against the narrative. I don’t know if he’s publicly come out and said something against wearing the rainbow shirt as this thing doesn’t interest me in the slightest as I think it’s pointless, what the young lad at blackpool has done is far more positive. There should be no place in football for any hate but until the fa or fifa take actual steps to eradicate it you’ll still get idiots.

19 May 2022 06:46:32
As an agnostic raised in a Christian family, I have no qualms with people believing in a God. However nobody can know for sure if there is a God, or what Gods will would be if he did exist. Therefore, religion has no basis in a bigotry debate. Let's deal with facts and not archaic beliefs held by sheep unwilling to expand their minds away from what they are told is right/ wrong.

You can't choose your sexuality anymore than you can choose you skin colour. Nobody should be judged on something they can't change about themselves. Homophobia is every bit as bad as racism for that reason.

You can however, quite easily move away from religion when you're wise enough to realise most are littered with evil notions and comical contradictions. I have absolutely no part in Christianity now. If there is a God then he created homosexuality anyway so it obviously don't bother him that much eh!

Gueye should be punished along with lesser punishments for Sarr and Kouyate. There is no place for any form of discrimination in football and it's painfully ironic that all 3 players are BAME footballers who many homosexuals will have been supporting throughout the whole BLM movement. A real shame they can't reciprocate basic human decency because of what an ancient book tells them to do. A 10 game ban for Gueye should do the trick. He can use his time off to educate himself.

19 May 2022 07:41:23
AW, GREAT Post mate, 100 percent agree. TJ Red- unfortunately during debates like these, unfortunately for you, peoples real opinions and views rise to the surface and yours appear to have done so I'm afraid. Read AW's post and educate yourself mate.

19 May 2022 08:29:12
AW killed it. Bravo, sir!

19 May 2022 08:31:13
I really wanted to avoid having a day on this as it usually turns into a merry go round of nonsense. Actually, there is a lot wrong with AW and MK Scousers post. To keep it brief, AW you compare going to another country and cry about their laws (Singapore and chewing gum) yet then talk about these players almost doing that. They're not, last I heard, a player took a stand for their beliefs and wasn't exactly standing on the soap box spewing hatred for the homosexuality etc. If he was, then that is a completely different matter obviously.
MK, I think you're argument is somewhat narrow minded in the fact that you very obviously don't appreciate the power an upbringing can have on individuals. These people have been raised their whole childhood to believe certain things, with threats of violence and long term imprisonment hanging over their heads. There are gay people living in these countries, forced to hide their true selves in fear. The issue runs much deeper and personally, this is why you don't involve politics in football. Football is an international game, and forcing individual countries politics onto players will never end well.

19 May 2022 08:59:11
According to the Oxford dictionary, ‘bigotry’ is defined as “intolerance of the opinions of others”. It’s worth considering how many posts on here could fall under that definition by not being tolerant of Gueye’s beliefs.
Gueye has refused to wear a shirt with a rainbow on it. Why on earth should he be punished for it? I accept that he might not fit into the inclusivity ethos that the club is pretending to promote (a poster above makes an excellent point about PSGs owners’ cultural beliefs on homosexuality) but being punished for your non-conforming beliefs and viewpoints is ludicrous. Should players now be banned for not taking the knee? Or for voting Tory?
People’s opinions are changed through education not punishment. Until Gueye is educated otherwise he is going to hold on to his truth as that is how he sees the world. And while he is not outwardly criticising or vilifying LGBT people we should be more tolerant and respectful of his individual decisions.

{Ed001's Note - actually he should be punished as it is in his contract to do so. Taking the knee is not contractual nor is their choice of who to vote for. But sacking off work pretending to be sick is a disciplinary issue. Why do so many people fail to actually recognise that he is doing something wrong because they are so busy supporting his 'right' to be a bigot?}

19 May 2022 09:32:47
Then sacking off work is the punishable offence, i have no problem with that. It was suggested he should get a 10 game ban for his views which, by definition, is bigotry.
Are you saying it is in his contract to wear a rainbow shirt when asked (or any shirt the club say he should wear)?

{Ed001's Note - he is to wear the shirt of the club, if that happens to be a rainbow shirt for a particular game then yes it is in his contract. As for getting a 10-match ban for his views, I don't care if it is bigotry to ban him for having bigoted views, freedom of speech or belief or religion has never existed and never will while people like him are allowed to perpetuate their ridiculous beliefs. The guy is not a 'real man', he is a coward who didn't even have the guts to come out and say he refuses to wear it because he disagrees with it. Now he has become a rallying point for all the bigots and homophobes to gather behind, without even having the guts to stand up publicly for his own beliefs.}

19 May 2022 10:02:08
Voltaire springs to mind.

19 May 2022 10:33:16
So gueye wears the shirt and nobody knows his true beliefs? Bit hypocritical, been made to make a stand against something you don't believe in? Whether it's right or wrong, it's what he believes in and he's perfectly entitled to feel the way he does.

19 May 2022 11:01:11
They're lots of misunderstandings in this thread abt different culture and country rules. Not every country follows western ideology.

19 May 2022 11:41:49
In no way shape or form am I comparing the two. You are only making my point. Pedophilia is illegal because we as humans decided it should be illegal. My hypothetical situation is what if the majority of people started accepting pedophilia? I would imagine most posters here are against pedophilia, but in this case, the majority thinks it’s okay. We would be “bigots” to speak out against it.

That is the only point I’m Making. I’m not saying Gueye has the right to be a bigot. I’m saying he has the right to make his own decisions. Whether you think it is bigotry is simply irrelevant.

19 May 2022 14:13:07
I have no problem with freedom of speech but if a homophobe is happy to share their thoughts then expect me to call them a see you next Tuesday.

I don’t care two hoots about religious indoctrination. Nobody chooses to be black or gay or Jewish. You are born who you are. Respect and love to ALL. That is the only religion I choose.

19 May 2022 15:05:20
G1dgo mate fantastic post! What about the other side? What if your country have a different rules/ laws and can put you behind bars for 5 yrs especially the country Idrissa Gueye if coming from and still he's family is living there?

19 May 2022 15:33:42
I understand the point you are making TJ and I totally understand the point that he has a right to express himself (in a peaceful manner) . However If he’s choosing not to wear rainbow colours in support of LGBTQ, is that not suggesting he does not support others right to express themselves?

Ultimately I don’t agree with bans (unless you’re encouraging direct violence and abuse) because that just solidifies these bigotry views. I do think it’s critical to understand how these beliefs are created and developed so that we can work towards changing these ignorant views. And if players like Gueye refuse then their contract should be terminated.

Re your example, I don’t think you’re comparing the two of pedophilia and homosexuality but there is a clear distinction between the two in that one party is vulnerable and not able to make a conscious responsible decision. So in that instance, it will never be bigotry to call out such actions.







 

 

 
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