08 Jul 2022 10:58:35
Just a quick one for opinion more than asking. Does no one else think we need something this summer in the midfield. Don't get me wrong, our business has been brilliant, we have brought what we needed, Salah and Gomez are secure and got rid of some players we needed to make decisions about. I just think beyond the three we have who in my mind are quality (Hendo, Fab and Thiago) we have very little quality behind that. Ox is finished and waiting to be released, Jones has never moved forward as a player and Nabby is one of the most confusing players we have ever had.
{Ed0666's Note - as Ed’s 002 would say Panda ‘RTFP’
08 Jul 2022 12:23:08
It’s a good question and it’s been debated a lot this summer but the truth is only hindsight will tell us.
If we don’t sign a midfielder and we go onto win 1 of the big ones or both then it was the correct decision. If we don’t then the fans wanting a new top class midfielder could easily claim that was the reason we didn’t win.
Some fans seem to hate the idea of us buying any player (shiny new toy as they put it) despite the fact that 95% of our current squad were all bought by Klopp at some point or other and then some want us to buy lots of players every window.
For me personally I think we have a cracking squad but if there is a player available that will improve the squad or even the starting 11 then why wouldn’t I want us to be in for them, but if such player isn’t available or out of our reach financially then we just go with the great squad we already have.
08 Jul 2022 13:03:03
I think people are really quick to dismiss the impact the young lads will have an impact on our squad/ team this year. Elliot was starting last before his injury and by all accounts has been working hard to get that sharpness back, Carvalho is a very special talent and Jones is more than capable of playing and starting games this year. Fans are very fickle and will happy write off some of these boys because they are young, raw and unproven but with the 3 of fab, thiago and hendo, then these 3 rotating I think is more than enough and I'm excited what they can do!
08 Jul 2022 13:22:04
Dr just on that mate we also have to bear in mind that the 3 youngsters are all converted Midfielders and that even if Carvalho ends up playing midfield.
Jones was a wide forward a few years ago and is on his 3-4 season learning the centre midfield role and Elliot literally played about 10 games there last season.
All of them will need time to learn the position as they will be up against midfielders who have played that role for years.
08 Jul 2022 14:43:20
As per the opinion of most, we have only 3 midfielders capable of functioning in our team. These are quite injury prone too. Jones, Ox, Keita are trash. Milner is finished. This has been the opinion since the last 2-3 seasons. Each season the degree of paranoia has only increased. Simply question to them . How on earth do we manage to perform the way do despite such an obvious lacunae. Do you guys simply consider us lucky or what? If the bloody best manager in the world seems fine with the situation and has not been desperate to add a mf, I think the situation is still under control. Players like Ox, Keita are inconsistent but still produce moments of quality. There is a reason they are squad players and not starters. Jones, Elliott, etc are young players and may become regulars in the future. The overall balance seems fine.
08 Jul 2022 14:52:30
I think Jones Elliott and Carvalho have gig seasons ahead of them with plenty of minutes for them.
I would love Naby and Ox to move on and then bring in a new midfielder to do the job Henderson did in are league winning season because I don’t think he has the legs to do that role anymore. But unless we sell them 2 we can’t just keep adding players.
Hopefully Carvalho and Elliott can be the players to add a few more goals from midfield.
08 Jul 2022 15:39:09
Whether we need a midfielder depends on the extent to which Jones and Elliot can step up. If they push on a bit, we're fine.
If they don't push on, we're relying on Keita who generally doesn't play well enough, imo.
I'd be more comfortable replacing Keita and Ox with one solid, reliable midfielder. But at the same time if the coaching staff have faith in Jones and Elliot, then I can understand if they hold off on buying a midfielder.
08 Jul 2022 15:48:34
Numbers wise we are fine. But in terms of profile, we do need someone in the Bissouma/ Tchouameni mould to complete the squad. I assume that would depend on a departure in midfield (Ox and/ or Naby) .
08 Jul 2022 17:20:50
We need another engine in the middle simple as! We’ve 9 mids nearly most are injury prone some in the 30’s now too!
08 Jul 2022 18:08:49
OP, this is very simple. The fact that the club were interested in their first choice target in Tchouameni and now Bellingham (for this or next season) is all the oroif you need that we are indeed looking into improving things in that area so they just answered your question.
Now as for just signing any mid cos you think Ox is finished, Naby is not the answer (I agree here) and that Jones had not kicked on (disagree strongly here), that won’t happen and we all know this so asking for what we cannot get is a futile adventure.
We will stick with the players (and excited to see Fabio, Jones and Elliott) we’ve got if we cannot get the guy we need and remember, fir one to come in then one has to leave so if Naby or Ox don’t want to leave, what can one do? Back the team and the manager is what I would do.
08 Jul 2022 19:51:48
I think its a bit like when we signed Virgil. The club are waiting for the right player rather than rushing to buy any old trash. Would it be nice to get Bellingham in? yes. Is it going to happen this summer i highly doubt it.
08 Jul 2022 18:48:24
Didn’t replace Gini. Lost out on the big ones. Fine margins, a goal here and there. A point here and there.
Replace him and I think we’ll mop up and win both I really do.
08 Jul 2022 20:42:02
As Pelican said, if we find a good young defensive midfielder, then we should go for it. And compensate by letting one of Keita or Ox go. Someone in the 23-24 age group that will fit in with the new group Klopp is trying to develop. Otherwise, I'm fine with pushing young Morton forward, giving him some games to develop. He showed good potential in the few games he played last year.
08 Jul 2022 23:00:08
Sell Keita and ox and buy a midfielder with the funds/ savings on wages. Jones, Elliot and carvalho are no more than cover options at the moment.
08 Jul 2022 23:27:09
Interesting to see Bobby Clark training with the first team and joining the squad for the trip for Asia. He arrived from Newcastle with Newcastle insiders saying he was a generational prospect - it’ll be interesting to see how he does.
Interesting comments in the thread about the youngsters - Elliot, Carvalho and Jones being wide midfielders who aren’t experienced in centre mid. not really sure if that’s rue about Elliot or Carvalho but it probably is for Jones. In fact one of the things on the official Liverpool site in the pre-season for last season was that JK wanted to Jones to play in a more central role to ‘learn the trade’, as it were. It didn’t really work out due to Jones getting C.V. and then getting the eye injury and his delayed return and lack of confidence the injury brought about. When he was ready to continue the learning process he couldn’t really get a good run in the team under his belt because we needed to win every game we played in so the established central mids got a game - Hendo, Fabs and Tiago with Keita and Millie as the main back-ups. I expect Jones to kick on this season, and although it’s nowhere near ‘last chance saloon’ for him he does need to step up and show JK he has what it takes on a more regular basis.
One final point in my little rant - the season before last our defence was labelled injury prone, last season or was the midfields turn. The club played 60 odd competitive matches in @40 weeks and we were allowed 3 subs in most of the matches. As a fan 60 plus games a season to watch is brilliant, as one of the three key midfielders you are bound to get knocks and bruises and injuries - thankfully not of them had any really serious injury problems. With the extra subs player welfare is being addressed and opportunities for players to get game time and show rpthey are actually ready for more time is also improved.
I strongly suspect that the club is looking for opportunities to improve the squad (in the context of this conversation the midfield) . I’d be willing to bet that if they find a player who represents value for money and fits the profile and character that the club wants, they would go for him, but that if they don’t they would be happy with what they currently have to mount a challenge next season. Of course as a fan, I’d like Bellingham now but I’m happy to trust the club based on the improvements we have been making year on year over the past 5 or 6 years.
Sorry for the long post!
09 Jul 2022 08:17:24
whatever people want to say as to the quality of this player or that player, the fact remains that they are here and we most likely won’t be taking 9 or 10 midfielders into the season.
09 Jul 2022 08:17:32
LiverpoolFC08, still moaning about Gini not being replaced, I see? Well, Ed01 has said that Klopp brought in Thiago to replace Gini even before he left so yeah, we did replace Gini and we were that close to winning the lot and gaining immortality with Thiago his replacement, playing a prime role. Peace and Love.
{Ed001's Note - and Keita.}
09 Jul 2022 09:10:06
WDW just on your point mate regarding Elliot and Carvalho i can’t say for certain but looking at their stats online it shows in senior football (can’t say for youth) but Elliot has played 16 games of his career as a midfielder. And 4 of those were for our under 23’s and 3 were for Blackburn in the Championship. So he’s played 9 times for us there across 4 competitions.
With regards to Carvalho it says 10 appearances as a centre mid but then another 59 appearances be it international, championship or U23 as a 10 or forward.
This isn’t me trying to have a dig at both if anything’s it’s the polar opposite. I’m trying to defend both as being extremely new to the position. Both might just fit straight in and hit the Ground running in just saying if they don’t then it could be more time is needed.
09 Jul 2022 09:59:39
Absolutely @JK, my assumption is that Elliot and Carvalho would have played a portion of their games in a pivotal CM role as they came through the age groups but hands up that is only an assumption ion my part and may or may not be true.
09 Jul 2022 10:12:12
Expert coaches who previously trained Carvalho said in an interview that his best position in our side would be on the left of the midfield 3 unless we changed our system to play with a number 10. Elliott on the other hand is a right winger who it seems Klopp might convert going off about 3 or 4 games from the start of last season.
People are possibly forgetting that Henderson came as a right winger, Lallana came as a left winger, Ox came as a right winger, Wijnaldum came as a left winger and Milner started as a right winger. For some reason, in our 4-3-3 system converted wingers tend to work quite well in what Klopp describes as 'the two 8 positions'. Possibly because they often end up in wide areas.
The flip side to this is that rumours coming out of the club (via Neil Jones) are that we might well look to a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-4-2 at times next season. I'd guess Jota, Firmino or Carvalho could be chosen to play off Nunez or even alongside him (obviously with Diaz and Salah in the wide areas) . Ultimately the formation on paper is a rough guide though and the main thing i took from this is that Klopp is possibly going to try 4 attackers rather than 3 and how that translates in terms of formation is anyones guess.
With that in mind, suddenly having only 2 natural midfielders on the pitch makes our depth in that area pretty significant. Klopp always played with 4 attackers at Dortmund; Reus, Gotze and Blaczykowski behind Lewandowski. So it makes sense that with Firmino's powers on the wane and Mane gone, we will look to change things up from the false 9 in a 4-3-3 relying on 50+ goals from the wide forwards.
I think people need to reassess their expectations. All summer i've read on here that Jota and Keita should be sold. I myself have called for Keita to go. Now it looks like they're next in line for new contracts so maybe it's time we get behind them and accept that any new signing between now and next season is just an unexpected bonus to an already great squad.
{Ed001's Note - how is that a rumour about the formation? Some of these 'journos' are nothing but scam artists. We have switched between all 3 formations under Klopp since the day he took charge. It is hardly giving a scoop is it to tell you what has been happening for 5 years!}
09 Jul 2022 10:14:56
@Oli, we did actually win the lot with Gini, lol.
09 Jul 2022 11:09:19
Wijnaldum, Kieta and Bale. The 3 names that bring out our inner Karen’s ?.
09 Jul 2022 18:31:34
Don't shoot the messenger Tris ?
Nah, I worded it poorly. He implied it would be more frequent that we line up with 4 attackers when discussing Jota being a beneficiary of Mane leaving.
Extract below:
"His all-round game may need a little work - his first touch, for example, comes up short when compared to Salah, Diaz or Firmino - but we can expect Jota, with his versatility, attitude and goalscoring instinct, to play a huge role in the post-Mane era at Anfield, especially if, as has been widely suggested, we start to see Liverpool experiment more with a 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 system this season. "
Agree we've been doing it infrequently for a while though. I still remember the two 7-0 wins playing a 4-4-2 as far back as the 17/ 18 season. Was breathtaking stuff.