Liverpool banter 247585


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20 Jun 2024 13:06:43
I don't understand the uproar over a potential swap with Diaz and Raphinha. I'll pre-warn that this might come off as a bit of a rant so before you read, please understand I'm not trying to say I'm right and others are wrong. I just want to put my point across in one post so I can walk away from the tedious discussion afterwards.

I like Diaz a lot and his passion and work rate simply won't be matched by Raphinha as they're different players. In fact you'll be hard pushed to find anyone in Europe who works harder than Diaz out wide. But in terms of end product Raphinha eclipses him very comfortably. Last season he created 13 goals for Barcelona in 37 appearances. Meanwhile Diaz created 5 for us in 51 appearances. So you're talking about Raphinha being slightly better than 1 in 3 for creating goals and Diaz is barely even at 1 in 10.

Goals wise Raphinha had 10 and Diaz had 13 so there isn't much difference there given the difference in games played. Neither is likely ever going to score 20+ goals a season and that's pretty normal for wingers, contrary to what us spoilt Liverpool fans are used to with Mane and Salah.

So it really does come down to whether you value creativity over work rate as to who you think is the better player between Diaz and Raphinha. At the end of the day, goals win games so for all Diaz's charging about flying into 50/ 50's, for a winger he simply cannot cross a ball as well as he should be able to and he constantly picks the wrong pass when we're counter attacking which results in the move breaking down.

Throw in that we're severely lacking options at RW but well stocked at LW, and it makes perfect sense really. Barcelona have the opposite issue where they have Yamal coming though for RW who looks a really top talent, but they've got nobody of any real quality to play on the LW and resorted to putting Raphinha or Felix there out of position. So the swap would suit both parties on paper.

Raphinha at Leeds was a greedy penalty merchant but at Barcelona he has developed his game and maybe having better players around him that he trusted more was the catalyst for him showcasing his low key top draw creativity. Is he the best option? No, and at 27 years old he's only a 5 year solution at best. However, he's certainly not a bad option and anybody saying Raphinha is "terrible" is really just being drawn into hyperbole. Like Diaz, he's a good player, just in a different way.

We're not going to get another 20+ goal and 10+ assist RW anytime soon. I think people need to temper expectations and stop comparing every winger we're linked with to Salah because the guy is a freak and it's not normal what he's done from the wing. The only other player I'm aware of who got 20+ goals and 10+ assists last year from the RW playing in a top 5 European league is Saka and he's so far in his career done it once! Bowen, Foden, Palmer and Rodrygo all look capable on paper but played the majority of their football last season in AM or at CF so there is no evidence to support that they can do what Salah has done from the RW.

This is why I can't help but wince a bit when people say Salah needs to go. He's still by far the most effective RW in Europe and he and Saka are the only world class RW's I can see in the game right now. So if he leaves, Raphinha is about as good as the realistic options out there get. He's in that same bracket as other RW's like Mbuemo, Sane, Dembele, Kudus and Berardi where they'll probably get you around 10+ goals and 10+ assists a season and that is just what is normal for a top winger.

City won the league with Doku, Grealish and Silva playing most of the minutes out wide and they COLLECTIVELY got 21 goals and 22 assists. City's goals came mainly from Foden, Alvarez and Haaland who played down the middle. We need our AM's and CF's to step up after Salah goes because realistically, we're not replacing him like for like unless Arsenal let go of Saka and that just isn't happening.

Apologies again if this comes off in the wrong way. I just genuinely believe Salah's 'normal' has warped what people recognise as a good winger. There really isn't many world class ones out there so be careful what you wish for.

Agree12 Disagree0

20 Jun 2024 14:20:19
Thanks for the info mate. Before I jump on the bandwagon of not wanting the swap. I’d like to know more information about the deal as in wages he would be on and how much they would be adding to the deal. Am sure there are other options out there like Kvaratskhelia and nico Williams that we could possibly get. Lastly for all the good stats that Diaz and people wanting him to stay I think he is letting himself down by allowing his farther to constantly talk about move to Barcelona. This should not be happening especially after everything the club have done for the family.

20 Jun 2024 14:34:31
MK, appreciate your posts, but any chance you can start using bullet points ?.

20 Jun 2024 14:55:48
Lucho'd have better numbers in La Liga.

20 Jun 2024 16:07:00
I would love to get nico Williams, he looks like the real deal in terms of a winger who loves staying wide and taking people on one on one, but apparently he has extravagant wage demands, kvara would be a dream too but there’s no indication that we’re interested in him and Napoli would charge an extortionate fee considering they don’t seem to have any desire to let him leave

I think raphinha is okay but Diaz has such great work rate, has pace, loves taking defenders on, can run from the first minute to the last and is pretty much elite one on one, getting raphinha as a successor to mo or in exchange for Diaz can’t help but feel like a major downgrade however you look at it, especially since that means raphinha is supposed to then hold on to the starting right wing position for the next few years, I’m pretty certain we can do better than that, buying a younger and more adventurous option.

20 Jun 2024 16:27:13
June, Think there are just as many players who flopped in La Liga and succeeded in the Prem as there are vice versa to be honest. Sanchez, Hazard, Coutinho etc. There’s not much to split the two leagues as far as I’m concerned but if that’s your belief then fair enough. It’s a better argument than “Raphinha is mediocre at best”.

Stuie, I honestly don’t know how my posts end up so long sometimes ? surprised anyone even reads them to be honest.

Good post Longthing. Agree with all you said.

20 Jun 2024 17:19:23
Kvaratskhelia Plays on the left and we are overstocked there.

20 Jun 2024 17:27:13
There is no glaring differences between Raphinha and Diaz. Similar age and doesn’t score many. I don’t know how Raphinha is an upgrade to Diaz.
I agree we need to look for goals from midfield and attackers.

20 Jun 2024 17:35:05
Raphinha is one paced, lazy, loses the ball far too cheaply, can’t beat a man with pace or skill, his end product is modest and that is being extremely generous. For £60m you’d at least expect a winger who can beat a defender and get close to double figures in goals. That’s without mentioning his hissy fit that he threw to get his “dream move”.

Fans criticise Diaz for his decision making, but it’s light years better than Raphinha, Raphinha makes Diaz look like peak John Barnes in comparison.

Raphinha is no better than dross like Richarlison, Antony, Traore, Dembele, Sterling or Grealish and I wouldn’t want any of those pitching up here either.

20 Jun 2024 18:03:37
In fairness our midfield offered goals last season. I think Mac got 7 goals and 7 assists.

Even in our glory years with Hendo, Gini and Fab they never got those kind of numbers.

Hopefully Nunez and Diaz have better scoring seasons and Jota can stay injury free.

We have a squad full of players capable of scoring goals and winning games.

20 Jun 2024 19:22:27
That’s spot on JK23, and that’s why I’m not stressing about Salah’s eventual replacement scoring 20+ goals!

Personally I think we should give Salah a 2 year deal and reassess next summer. Unless he wants a mega pay rise of course, in which case just let him run down his contract because the fee we would get for him is not going to be worth the downgrade.

20 Jun 2024 19:23:38
Agree fully btw, Jaguar. The next step needs to be getting Nunez, Macca and Szobo bagging goals from central areas.

20 Jun 2024 19:40:12
@Longthing, why would you, as a football fan, want to know how much a player is going to be paid before deciding if he is a good signing or not? If the football club, and ultimately the owners, agree to the contract details then it’s no skin of your, or my, nose as a fan of the club. It’s the club’s decision and if they see the right player - at the right price - then we should get behind the new signing, at least until he played three or four games (that seems to be the ‘going rate’ these days) .

20 Jun 2024 20:07:04
Assists are hard to judge a player on. I’m not going stat digging as I can’t be arsed…. but in a season that we wasted soooooo many chances, if we had a lethal finisher up front, maybe Diaz (and Salah) would have registered more assists than they did. My personal view is that you are not strengthening the squad by removing Diaz and replacing him with Raphinha, regardless of and money to sweeten the deal.

20 Jun 2024 20:31:08
MK . how we going ro afford a top class replacement for Salah next season, when Salah goes on a free, if he goes now . we get a decent fee for him 50 mill plus . I don't get this let players run their contracts down . I keep hearing we're not loyal fans if we want him gone if he doesn't sigh extention etc, Ed002 has said he would have went years ago if he could have got his dream move.

20 Jun 2024 21:44:40
For all those courting the idea of Raphina swapping with Diaz can we just take a step back and look at the facts, Barcelona are the ones who are seeking to include him in a swap deal (allegedly) from this we can assume that they see Diaz as an upgrade! Why would we want their cast off? Also just to note Raphina is on 4 times Diaz’s current salary and would likely want similar if not improved terms….

21 Jun 2024 00:24:54
I totally agree with you on Salah, MK. We are spoilt by him. There isn't any RW like him. In fact, I couldn't think of the old/ retired RWs like Salah. He is a freak hahaha. I agree 100%.

21 Jun 2024 00:27:17
You can't stop a player from running down his contract. If you give someone a three year contract you are obliged to pay them for three years and then let them leave on a free.
We have benefited from players running down their contracts like Matip, Milner etc.

21 Jun 2024 02:06:44
A bit of a rant, but a very good one.

I think the right fit in the system is most important. I honestly never believed that Mane/ Firmino/ Salah would be the best front 3 in the world for a time, but they were because they fit the system well. I hope Slot has a lot of input because a player doesn't gave to be a big name to have a big impact.

Here's to hoping the team finds the right fit, regardless of where they come from.

21 Jun 2024 08:00:33
Haizan, there's only been three RW's in my lifetime who have had an equal or better output to Salah; Ronaldo at United for a few seasons, Messi at Barcelona for a few years before he moved central, and Bale at Spurs/ Madrid for about 6 years before he lost interest in football.

Salah is THAT special. He is clearly in a physical decline but he still has so many strings to his bow that even when it looks like he's struggling he'll create a goal out of nothing or pop up in the right place at the right time to score. We struck gold when we signed Mo. It's at least in the debate to be pound for pound the best signing in football history.

21 Jun 2024 10:52:35
Not bad for a Chelsea reject or the 6-time Premier League "one season wonder" right, MKS?



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