Liverpool banter 247680

 

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07 Jul 2024 17:55:13
Been announced that Thiago Alcantara has retired from football as a player. I wish him all the best; supremely talented footballer but couldn't do much for us sadly, due to his injuries.

Agree12 Disagree0

07 Jul 2024 18:01:40
Without a doubt one of the most graceful footballer ever. Watching him play was like pure poetry in motion. Technically he was brilliant.

07 Jul 2024 18:06:07
Brilliant footballer unfortunately his time with us disappointing due to the injuries. No coincidence the 1 really good steady run he had in lfc team was the push for the quad 2 seasons ago, he played great stuff in that period.

07 Jul 2024 18:07:09
Gutted for him. His first two seasons for us he did well but last year was ridiculous. Think he played 20 minutes all season. Did something go badly wrong with that hip surgery 12 months ago? Loss for football.

{Ed025's Note - half decent if a little lazy for me MK..

07 Jul 2024 18:45:52
Absolute Rolls Royce of a player.

Unfortunately, injury-wise, he was about as dependable as a poorly maintained one from the 60s.

{Ed014's Note - more of a Ford Granada for me

07 Jul 2024 18:48:41
I wouldn’t say lazy Ed025. Quite the opposite. I’d say if anything he tried too hard to win the ball back and he was very prone to a rash tackle often from the wrong side. He was a winner and I can’t have it he was lazy mate. Only other he did that annoyed me was play blind asses across the front of our penalty area quite often.

{Ed025's Note - i dont think Liverpool seen the best of him MK, maybe the league did not suit him i really dont know, but i thought he was incredibly over-hyped mate and does not get in the top 20 reds midfielders for me..

07 Jul 2024 19:10:42
When Pep G hails your new signing ….

07 Jul 2024 19:22:03
When on his day (not as many as we all would have liked at LFC), Thiago was out of this world. The guy ran passing clinics in certain games that sometimes, it was so enjoyable and made football look easy. Grace and poetry in motion at times, IMO. I don't believe the league did not suit him was he dropped several massterclasses in the PL (see his debut at Chelsea) and CL after he settled in the team.

Go watch the FA Cup semi vs City at Wembley where they could not get near him and Fernadinho was chasing his shadow all game. Learned to tackle and became very good at winning the ball back and pressing effectively, IMO. He said so, " The manager taught me how to run".

Overhyped? As a youngster at Barca, only legends Xavi and Iniesta were in front of him so he had to leave to get game time at Bayern under a certain Pep Guardiola. I guess he's a mug who can't spot overhyped players, yeah? In addition, Thiago was coming off being the best player in the CL the season (won the treble) before he signed for us. Even Rooney thought LFC would go back to back when he heard we got him. I guess he can't spot a baller when he sees one too.


Now Ed25 has it right on one sense. We never really saw the best of him and that's normal due to his injury history (apparently partly based on the way he plays with his hips hence, the hip issues he had/ has) and then, keep in mine that he signed for us at about age 29 and with the early injuries he had esp. the one he had at Everton when he was on a good run, set the tone esp. with a player with an already checkered injury record. Great player. A serious case of "what might have been", IMO.

{Ed025's Note - i was only commenting on his time at Anfield Oli, i seen a bit of him in Spain and he came with a very good reputation, of course he had the odd good game mate but not enough to go all weak at the knees for me, ended up a bit of a crock and his wages far outweighed his footballing value for me, but its all about how one sees things i suppose..

07 Jul 2024 19:23:40
I agree not top 20 Ed025. I could reel a fair few who were better off the top of my head and i’m only 30 years old.

{Ed025's Note - you come across as older MK, i dont mean that as an insult mate you have a very good knowledge of football imo..

07 Jul 2024 19:30:20
Many on here and the live chat know my opinion on Thiago already, fair to say I am not one of his biggest fan, not by a long shot. To put it kindly, Thiago has always style over substance, for me.

He hardly ever played, spending far more time on the injury table than the pitch, contributed something like 4 assists over his entire time with Liverpool, and simply could not be relied upon when we really needed him. Notable that he has decided to retire now, rather than last year where he played a total of 10 minutes all season, and was happy collecting his 200k a week for zero work.

Personally, think he is is severely overrated and prospered from having better players and systems around him to accommodate what he was, a luxury player. One of Klopp's worst signings at Liverpool, I genuinely hold him up there, not close to Keita but in the top 3 to 5. Harsh, maybe, but I have no time or sympathy for the man.

07 Jul 2024 19:32:55
Lfc didn't see the best of him ed25 no doubt on that but some his football was brilliant to watch particularly in this day and age when most players are coached to be robots, all do same thing, thiago always had something different in him. Unfortunately due to injuries his time with the reds will be seen as failure and I can't argue with that.

{Ed025's Note - i would agree with that Digger mate..

07 Jul 2024 19:51:32
As great a footballer he was, and there’s no question of his talent or character, it’s entirely fair to say that he was a poor signing by any stretch of the imagination as he missed so many games and had serious fitness issues throughout his time here, issues that were well known before we signed him. To pretend otherwise would be extremely disingenuous.

07 Jul 2024 20:03:09
I go by what they do for LFC so has to be judged a poor signing.

07 Jul 2024 20:33:33
Great footballer, came to the premier league too late and was already done. Pep could see it, sometimes you got to take a risk and sadly it didn’t work out.
Never let us down as a pro and I’m sure he helped a lot of our youngsters.

07 Jul 2024 20:36:04
Outside of football he is a decent human. Good luck to him in retirement. Some of the videos of him in training, maestro with the ball.

07 Jul 2024 20:48:15
He falls into the same category as Jari Litmanen for me - the ‘if only’ group. If only they could have stayed fit. Genuine shame that they couldn’t.

07 Jul 2024 20:39:51
Ed25, no one is asking you or anyone to be "weak in the knees" about any player cos they can't even do that anymore, as Digger10 said. Thiago is one of the last of a dying breed. A maverick who with one no-look pass could wreak havoc. Let me know where you can find such players like that in abundance in this day and age.

Digger10 gets my point exactly. It is right to say we did not see the best of Thiago overall at LFC and that is a shame. However, it is also correct that he did his part (not as big as one would have liked) to our cause and hunt for trophies and that his talent and ability is unquestionable. Both points can clearly exist in the same space. Once again, a case of "what might have been".

{Ed025's Note - yeah Oli i have seen a lot of them might of been,s in my time, the wudder cudder shudder ones and the if only,s mate, for me Thiago came for a last big payday and he got one...good luck to him i say..

07 Jul 2024 21:12:00
68 LaLiga games for Barcelona over 4 seasons, his minutes the equivalent of 43 games over the same amount of time. Barcelona were happy to let him go for €25 million to Bayern were he had a good career but then again not many players don’t come away from Bayern with a bag full of trophies. His time at Liverpool didn’t really come to fruition, good for the odd flick and trick, nice for the highlight reel but totally ineffective in the cut and thrust of the PL. He clearly made the wrong choice coming to LFC and maybe should have picked a less aggressive league.
Still 33 is no age to retire these day, so it’s a shame that he had to come to that decision, comes across as a really nice chap and well respected too.

07 Jul 2024 21:34:03
Overhyped bloody hell ed he was bayerns best player when they won the treble and played almost every game in your favourite position the double pivot. That’s a worse take than mine or Harry’s usual
Ones.

{Ed025's Note - im only talking about his Liverpool career Colonel, so yes he was average and over -hyped mate...oh and over paid..

07 Jul 2024 22:06:10
I’ve often been called an old soul Ed025. I think it’s because I lack patience and hate spicy food.

{Ed025's Note - old before your time MK, i see you now in your camel haired coat, bow tie and stout brown brogues walking to the match with your rattle mate.. :)

07 Jul 2024 23:32:26
When fit and in form, a truly gifted footballer who was a level above everyone else on the pitch. A joy to watch and “elite” doesn’t do the guy justice.
His honours list doesn’t lie and to say that he was anything other than a legend would be criminal.
Sadly, he came to the premier league in the twilight of his career and his body couldn’t keep up with the pace of the most demanding league on the planet.
Wish we could have had a 25 year old Thiago, but he was one of the players on the planet who can pick what team he plays for, and he had other dreams to fulfill.

08 Jul 2024 00:07:27
I’ve made my opinion on Thiago very clear on these pages. I agree with Mango he was all style with no substance.

Positionally naive which is why he got booked very often for diving in from the wrong side.

It’s a shame because he’s a talented player who I expected so much more from. In reality he was a playmaker whose assists you could count on one hand. Easy on the eye but completely ineffective both offensively and defensively. The true definition of a luxury player who believed his own hype and had no interest in modifying his game for the team.

Needless to say he won’t be missed by me but I do wish him well.

{Ed001's Note - David Silva got very few assists as well, such a shallow way to view what is effective in a playmaker and shows a real lack of understanding of the game.}

08 Jul 2024 01:52:13
Very poor signing imo. Buying a player later in his career with a poor injury record and putting him on huge wages is what Man Utd are renowned for. Thiago was exceptional in his prime but so were Falcao, Veron and Schweinstager.

08 Jul 2024 06:08:22
@Beckers, I disagree that Thiago was a player who believed his own hype and had no interest in modifying his game for the team. In fact, I think most of the injuries he suffered was a result of him trying to adapt to how we play, which is much more intense than what he was used to with Bayern or Barca. I think his body just could not keep up the rigors of the PL and broke down. But to imply that he didn't work hard or put in effort is unjustified.

{Ed001's Note - exactly. It is just an ignorant take on Thiago that Beckers has vomited onto the page.}

08 Jul 2024 06:32:26
David Silva 60 goals and 97 assists in 309 PL games . So a goal or assist in every other game.

{Ed001's Note - well for starters you added in goals, which weren't mentioned. Silva took heavy criticism at one point at City for not getting enough assists compared to other great attacking mids, particularly from James Richardson. He would pull out just that one stat to show Silva wasn't all that great. Clearly nonsense as Silva is one of the best ever. The point anyway, is that a playmaker isn't necessarily going to be picking up assists. They aren't playing the final ball usually, they are putting someone into a position to play that final ball. Just ask Pirlo, who played 756 games and managed 134 assists in that time. Unlike Thiago, Pirlo started his career as an attacking midfielder as well, where he is more likely to have picked up more assists as his passes would be from higher up the pitch.}

08 Jul 2024 08:30:11
I surprised by some of the vitriol against a generational talent who has had to call time on his career because his body failed him.

It may not have worked out for either party but for me he will be remembered for the performances at Stamford Bridge, Old Trafford and Emirates in the Covid season as we rescued a CL spot, the United game at Anfield and semi-final at Wembley vs City in the quad chase and that stunning goal against Porto.

We’ll always have those memories.

08 Jul 2024 09:21:09
Thiago was a class player, pass the ball beautifully, could control games n temmpo. but unfortunately when he came to Liverpool, injuries ruined it for him. but I think because he was in the premier league n people were sayin he only a playmaker, he tried to hard to adjust his game ie tackling etc n I think that played a big part of his injuries. but I loved watching him play esp at Bayern.

08 Jul 2024 09:29:47
I loved Thiago and its a sad way for him to end his career.

I believe he will go onto become a great coach or manager somewhere in the future.

I'm pretty sure Milner was singing his praises for how he was in training and how much he helped other players.

Getting praise from Milner the ultimate professional is quite the accolade.

08 Jul 2024 09:50:16
I think Irish has just debunked your argument Ed.

I’d argue that trying to defend Thiago’s contribution to our team shows your lack of understanding of the game.

He’s a talented footballer but he slowed our play, got caught on the ball, pressed on his own, got caught wrong side constantly, didn’t create, didn’t score. In fact he added to the midfield’s workload because they had to cover for his total lack of positional awareness.

Unfortunately being a talented player on the ball doesn’t mean you are an effective player on the pitch.

If you’re going to give examples to criticise my lack of knowledge I think you should make sure you are right. Then we can have a grown up conversation rather than baseless insults and name calling.

{Ed001's Note - Irish has done nothing. I never defended Thiago's contribution at all, you clearly missed the point I was making. You are just repeating the same stuff you already said, as you have nothing of value to offer other than the same whine you posted already. I criticised your ignorance of the person Thiago, which I will stand by because you clearly know f all about him. Your post showed a complete lack of any knowledge of the man, it was just a hateful snide attack on his person. The kind of petty personal dig I would expect from a Man Utd or Everton fan.

But don't waste my time trying to pretend you can even hold a grown up conversation, or that you have any right to whine about baseless insults. The only person whose time is being wasted is mine, having to read you regurgitate the same things when they were utterly unrelated to what I was talking about. I really wish I never bothered to reply, it was wasted on you and I have no wish to get into a conversation about it anyway.}

08 Jul 2024 10:31:24
Ok fair enough Ed.

I wasn’t criticising the man at all and in a previous post I said I wish him well. I was criticising his overall contribution to our team as I do believe he did nothing to improve us.

I’ve always maintained he’s a very talented footballer who, in the right team can do wonderful things. He just wasn’t a good fit for us.

Anyway, we’ll have to agree to disagree on our respective knowledge of football matters.

{Ed001's Note - you were heavily criticising the man when you said that he believed his own hype. That is so far from true of Thiago, who is someone who is far from that type. If you had said it of Zlatan, then it is spot on, he has become a caricature because of it. But Thiago is just not that type at all. Didn't fit the Prem, didn't fit the team and couldn't stay fit, which makes him probably the second worst signing of the Klopp era, only saved by Keita being so catastrophically bad on and off the pitch. However, as a person he is just a quiet family man with no real airs and graces. He was always wandering around town with his missus and kids.

What annoyed me is your shallow abuse of one particular stat to try and prove he was useless. I hate the way people misuse stats to try and support an argument. My point wasn't that Silva didn't get many assists, my point was that he was being attacked by pundits at one point for not getting many as proof he was not very good. Just like it annoys me when those same pundits would claim Ozil was useless and lazy while totally ignoring the stats that said the opposite. Without context, stats are just meaningless.

If Thiago was playing in and around the box, then assists become more important as an indicator of his performance. But he was playing much deeper, so it is not really any indicator of his ability to be a playmaker. There is more to it. Added to the fact he was brought in to provide 'control' as Lijnders was obsessed with that. That means he is not going to be put into a position to play a final ball most of the time as he is there to keep the ball, not play the risky pass which creates chances.}

08 Jul 2024 12:34:37
I was regarded Thiago as the assist to the assist gut, he used to play the passes that I would scream at other players to do, if there was half a gap and a chance to go forward, round a corner, he would, he is under rated because he didn't get the goals or assists, but he was class, a player from deep to get the forward pass even if it wasn't 50% of a chance to make he would go for it, it's a shame there isn't more of these players these days, players are very negative these days.

08 Jul 2024 13:03:23
It going to blow smoke up his arse, Thiago was an absolute terrible signing for us to make, big money injury prone to high heaven. Hope we never make a transfer like that again, leave the old so called superstars to the likes of United.

08 Jul 2024 15:20:50
I get all of that Ed but as a creative player he should’ve contributed more going forward. With his ability he should be assisting Salah and Mane from deep positions and not just recycling or generally losing the ball.

Perhaps that’s what he was told to do but still his attacking stats were woeful for someone with his ability.

As a person I have no idea. He seems like a nice bloke I really have nothing against him at all. You can think you’re the dog’s doodahs on the pitch and still be a humble man off the pitch. I would never criticise someone’s character as a person when I’ve never even met them.

On the pitch though his attitude struck me as someone who was overconfident in his ability with very little substance to back that up. Cocky is great if you are running games and making a huge positive impact on the team. He wasn’t so his over confidence wasn’t merited.

That’s all I was saying.





 

 

 
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