06 Aug 2024 21:12:11
I must be the only person who's totally fine signing nobody until next season.
We don't know how these players will fare in a new system. Some players might flourish (seems to fit carvalho well) and some might struggle (like endo) but I'd really like to see what slot can do with the third best squad in the premier league first.
I get it's exciting all the transfer business but it's much better for the club if we can get a better tune out of what we have. We finished third playing awful for most of the season bar the two months after Jürgen announcement. Surely slot should be able to at least do the same?
06 Aug 2024 21:40:58
We didn’t finish 3rd that season, nor the next season.
I’m with you from this perspective - we do need to make some moves to add a #6, long term VVD replacement and Mo replacement likely for after this season.
But I’d take a 2-3 window approach to addressing all of that. So, if we did start some of those moves now that’s great but I won’t be dying in a ditch over it lol.
06 Aug 2024 21:53:39
Yes you’re on your own. You are basically saying you are fine finishing third at best. We are Liverpool aim for the top. No ambition.
06 Aug 2024 22:37:03
For me the excuse that there’s not many players that can improve the team is laughable.
06 Aug 2024 22:49:08
So you have no faith in the new coach, the coaching staff or the players, particularly the younger players to improve then? You expect that the only way the club can improv3 is by buying in ‘ready made’ players who are, in some way, the finished article? Sounds to me that you have no faith in the club and I don’t really understand how you are a supporter of the club and what it is trying to do.
06 Aug 2024 23:06:42
"The voice of the collective".
Thanks for speaking on my behalf.
Wrongly incidentally.
07 Aug 2024 00:12:50
@Hessle, there are lots of players that could improve the team and squad. Trouble is they might not want to play for Liverpool (I’m assuming you were on holidays for the Tchouameni or Caicedo or Lavia or Bellingham incidents?
Perhaps some of the players who could improve the squad are too expensive or won’t be released from their contracts?
Perhaps some are not considered the right fit for the club because of their character or considered not suitable for the type of football we want to play.
I think you might have misunderstood one or two people - there are some very good players but we just can’t get them for one or more reasons. And, as the club said, they are looking for the right players at the right price and not, necessarily, a big name.
07 Aug 2024 00:55:20
Is buying players the only way that we can show ambition? I'm like any other fan and I would love for us to sign someone and I always get excited when we do. But I can appreciate the measured approach that we are taking now, with Slot and his team wanting to assess the squad fully first. Plus, there's also the issue of the contracts that they need to sort out too. At this juncture, it's mostly about Slot assessing the players and the players assessing Slot as well.
I'm just going to put it out there that I think it's unlikely that we will win the league this season regardless of players signed or not. City and Arsenal are more stable at the moment, with managers who know the players inside and out. Our entire backroom on the other hand is new and there would be teething issues as the season goes on. So I'd rather we take our time to find our feet instead if rushing headlong and regretting our decisions later.
07 Aug 2024 03:50:32
Dracred - great question which I think is one for the panicking brigade to ponder. The mentality there seems to be - spend now and guarantee a title. We obviously know that spending doesn't guarantee anything.
I think the rhetoric about our apparent lack of spending reflects more the inferiority complex that many of our fans still have.
07 Aug 2024 05:25:27
By your logic we weren't in the top four teams in the Europa League. Is that good enough?
07 Aug 2024 06:30:39
Nah I'm ok with it Nevada.
07 Aug 2024 06:47:18
@Endo, For added context, we lost to the eventual Champions who, might I add, defeated Leverkusen who would have gone undefeated throughout an entire season otherwise.
Either way, that was Klopp's Liverpool. We're now in beginning of the Slot era. The players may be the same but the system is entirely different. It's a clean slate for everyone and I would say that padt season's results have little to no bearing on how we'd perform this season. It may be worse or it could be better.
07 Aug 2024 07:07:54
WDW The nonsense that no player can improve the squad is laughable. Furthermore these players don’t all play for Real Madrid or of the high profile status of Bellingham and co. You’re moralising the clubs position again, if Liverpool really want a player they’ll pay the money. It happened with Bellingham where we chased him for months wanted him for next to nothing then made some pathetic excuse about not wanting a bidding war.
Your second point about the training team improving what we’ve got. If Klopp couldn’t do year on year then this team won’t. I hope I’m wrong, but the club seem concerned with maintaining a status quo rather than going for greatness.
07 Aug 2024 07:26:43
I’d rather we didn’t end up with the wrong player. So from that perspective then I’d be inclined to agree to an extent with the OP.
07 Aug 2024 07:50:40
Carvalho? Can’t be suiting him that much. The club are looking to sell.
07 Aug 2024 08:21:30
Frode - “I hope I’m wrong, but the club seem concerned with maintaining a status quo rather than going for greatness”
You’re basing that assumption based on events that haven’t yet happened. It seems to be that this kind of thinking connects no signing with no effort.
If people believe this is the case then it’s kind of difficult to have this conversation.
07 Aug 2024 08:42:13
Complete and utter nonsense as is usually the case from you WDW3. Of course one or two of the youngsters can improve and hopefully another one will break through this season but most are going out on loan because this level is currently too high for them. Then we are looking for Slot to be able to improve the side, basically be better than Klopp even in his first season. On top of that we would still need the injury prone players to still fit which history tells us is very unlikely.
We have only won one premier league title when we had the best front 3 in the world and the best cb. Now we have players in the squad who don’t even want to be here. We need a left cb who can play left back, an additional forward so Diaz can leave, and most importantly a dm. If we get that right we can give it a real go and hopefully be succesat the end of the season. It would be a real shame if we wasted this opportunity before VVD and Salah leave.
07 Aug 2024 08:48:45
I'm happy with this measured approach as well, Slot needs time to understand his squad.
07 Aug 2024 09:00:41
Mark - who are the players that don’t want to be here? That statement seems to suggest there will be an issue with their performance or within the team? Who are they?
It’s a real disaster fiction of the current situation. We have needs, yes. We also have time to address them which includes the next two windows.
07 Aug 2024 09:24:23
Obviously Diaz. Also ed 002 has mentioned VDB. Do you know different?
07 Aug 2024 10:14:28
I don’t really see what the issue is.
If some fans don’t want signings fair enough and if other fans want signings exactly the same.
I don’t really see how one set of fans is right or wrong over the other.
On the grand scheme of things it’s what the club and slot want that actually counts.
07 Aug 2024 10:22:48
@Dracred we entering the Slot era with Klopps squad. Which wasn't good enough to win the PL.
07 Aug 2024 10:27:55
There are other ways to improve than signing new players.
Tactics, fitness, coaching, confidence all these criteria lead to increased consistency and that is the key to winning titles.
I’m not going to rail on Chelsea but let’s be honest in the last few years they’ve gone big on signing many players and it hasn’t worked out.
Recruitment is vital, of course it is, but it has to be the right recruitment. That’s where you need a team with a cool head to be ‘clinical’ with their recruitment. The scatter gun approach doesn’t work.
07 Aug 2024 10:30:30
For context I became a football fan at the start of the 90s when the club was broke most of the time, never won anything and when we did sign players (excepting collymore) they were usually unknown and low price. I'm accustomed to no or little signings. If you're from the EA sports era I get why you want signings I'm just arguing they're not always necessary.
I'm also lucky enough that because of what I do and what my wife does we rub shoulders with people in football a lot and I know an awful lot of scouts and agents, some execs at certain clubs and am friends with one very famous (and incredibly gracious) ex footballer. It changes your perspective a little when you see the other side.
You start to understand that most problems at a club can be fixed with coaching, and not even necessarily better coaching either. Just different coaching.
Carlo is the goat (in my opinion) precisely because he looks at what he has and asks how they get the best out of it. To my knowledge he's never been the manager of a team that allows him to choose the players they sign but he just works with what he has. And often improves players.
Are people really arguing that different coaching couldn't get the team which finished third to at least do it again?
Finally to whomever said I would be accepting third by saying this, that logic is stupid. Because your assumption is that if we sign players well Def do better. Ask Chelsea and united how that's working out. City famously didn't even bother signing a striker one year and strolled to a title, why? He just got the best out of what he had.
It doesn't mean someone "accepts" anything other than I accept the belief that new tactics could unlock more from certain players.
07 Aug 2024 10:39:38
Mark - Diaz and VDB? So two players one of which we would seemingly be open to sell and the other who is 5th choice? Sounds like a normal squad and normal matters that need to be addressed. Bit of a mountain being built there.
07 Aug 2024 10:41:22
Nevada - it’s a bit of a hopeless debate tbh. The more we get into the more I realize that what some people want is arbitrary signings. They’re not actually interested in improving the squad or aiming high because they only talk about signing a player. As you’ve rightly identified, signings doesn’t guarantee anything.
07 Aug 2024 10:42:33
It’s just my opinion. But if they weren’t good enough last season with Klopp I just can’t see any way that they will suddenly become good enough with Slot. Of course we could have a great start lead at Christmas etc but I feel we would fall away. Obviously no guarantees with new signings but VVD, Allison etc massively helped us win the league did they not.
07 Aug 2024 10:49:44
@Endo, what I'm trying to say is that we're not playing the same way Klopp did so the players shouldn't be judged on how they did previously. When Rodgers was still manager, many called Firmino a flop and wanted him sold. Klopp came in and he became one of our best players, almost purely because he had a different idea on how to play. Slot has another way of playing compared to Klopp and some players may adjust better to this new system.
07 Aug 2024 10:53:59
Carlo? He didn’t improve Mbappe, Bellingham or Tchouameni. They were purchased for him . You don’t think that they might improve the Real Madrid team ?.
07 Aug 2024 12:26:55
All this talk about 'oh they weren't good enough with Klopp and he is the best manager in the world so how can they possibly get better under Slot' stuff has been repeated ad nauseam and responded to ad nauseam, yes Klopp is the best manager in the world in certain respects, especially in-game, but in his final years he had serious tactical flaws largely because he delegated a lot of the work to Ljinders, and it was those same tactical flaws that were our undoing.
This is exactly what it means to say that Slot's tactical adjustments could prove to have a huge effect on the performance of certain players, we can see in the preseason games that he could opt for two 6s in the pivot rather than one more destroyer type, and the whole shape of the team in and out of possession could mean that we won't get counter-attacked in quite the same way and that the deep-lying midfielders might not have to cover as much ground as they did under Klopp. Wieffer at Feyenoord, who was probably their most important player of all, was hardly a bonecrushing tackling 6, while we already have hints of how Slot envisions Curtis' possible role in the squad.
People going on and on about the same thing without listening or considering that a different system creates different requirements and different relationships between players and synergies between skillsets are simply aggravating themselves for nothing. I'm not saying that we don't need any players, if Slot chooses to let go of Endo then I do think that somebody like Varela or- god willing- Ederson would be an excellent fit, but at the same time, could Bajcetic be our long-term 6 for the next ten years if given some time? So how do we manage that situation? I'm sure these are all questions they're mulling over full-time.
07 Aug 2024 11:50:45
Perhaps Klopp shouldn’t have sold all Rogers players and coached them better then.
We’ve got a very good squad of 20-24 players where around 95% of them were bought.
Anyone who thinks we would have won the league and CL without us buying Alison, VVD, Gomez, Robertson, Hendo, Wijnaldum, Fab, Mane, Bobby, Salah and Origi must be living in cloud cuckoo land.
{Ed001's Note - but Klopp didn't bring them all in straight away mate. He needed time to assess what he had and then for the right players to be identified and recruited. Years in fact. So why do people think Slot should sign what's needed over night?}
07 Aug 2024 11:59:41
@Frode, love your work. Go back and read what I wrote - the line about there being any number of players who can 8mprove the team might be a clue.
The point about Klopp - he did improve the team year on year - did you not notice the squad improve enough under his management to win the CL and PL or did that happen by chance? The team reached its sell by date in terms of age and how far it could progress. He started @ rebuild last year and we improved considerably on th3 year before.
I honestly don’t mind you disagreeing with me - truth is I actually don’t care - and you are entitled to your opinion anyway. But if you are going to disagree with everything I say please take the trouble to read what is there, and what I’ve actually written, and don’t just make up stuff that is factually incorrect.
07 Aug 2024 12:00:36
Transfers are a normal part of football business. Freshening up the squad, cashing in on assets, strengthening positions and in some cases, mitigating a future scenario is just part and parcel of the game. The positions that need strengthening have been pretty clear since last season, else we wouldn't have been trying to get Caicedo, Lavia, Ugarte, Inacio and Colwill.
{Ed001's Note - except that Slot plays a different type of football, hence the interest in Ugarte vanishing as he is not the right fit. So there is a need to re-assess some of those needs.}
07 Aug 2024 12:00:39
I don't mean this as a slight against any individual poster (s) but I hate when a thread goes this way.
Supporter A: "I'm a better fan because I support the players we have and don't want shiny new toys"
Supporter B: "no way, I'm a better fan because I want us to act like Champions and buy the best players"
For god sake, you're all good supporters and you don't need to engage in online phallus measuring competitions to prove it. The mere fact you all give up a huge percentage of your free time to debate topics about Liverpool FC on this forum is evidence that you care deeply. We all want what is best for the club and it's players, but we all have different theories and ideas of how to achieve that. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. Why? Because it's subjective and if there was a golden rule to success that us armchair experts could figure out, every club would've already adopted it.
I don't care if we sign anybody because I personally think tactics were the main issue for the last 2 seasons, as the intensity levels to our play were seemingly dropped massively. Klopp and Lijnders possibly went that way because of the several instances where we've had a major injury crisis in recent years. Or possibly because Klopp (by his own admssion) had just ran out of energy and Lijnders has his own philosophy that he wanted to push. The problem was that as it wasn't really Klopp's heavy metal philosophy we were hugely reliant on Lijnders, who I simply don't think is an elite level tactician despite being a great development coach (as shown by the sheer number of academy players we've had transition seamlessly into senior football under his tutelage) . So I think the squad is already good enough to compete for the title now we have a proven tactician and coach in Arne Slot who seems full of energy!
However, that's not me saying I wouldn't like a few new signings if any first team players such as Kelleher, van den Berg, Gomez, Tsimikas, Endo, Morton, Carvalho, Diaz etc move on this summer. But we can't keep adding players unless some people move on.
07 Aug 2024 12:43:49
It’s not about buying the best players we just need a couple of the right players to add to this squad. Robbo needs help, Baj needs help because atm he can only play 20 minutes. Diaz needs to go, so we will need another forward. We have in the recent past left everything until the last second and then panicked and made terrible signings.
I am sure Slot has identified at least one player he would like.
{Ed001's Note - is Beck not up to the task of covering at left-back? But I think we have to surely start looking at Robbo's future now don't we? He is picking up a lot of injuries.}
07 Aug 2024 12:51:03
I agree about Ugarte, Ed.
But we do still need a better player than Endo in the DM position. That requirement hasn't changed, even if the profile has.
{Ed001's Note - he doesn't play a DM though. The full-backs invert to become the DMs and free up the actual midfield to play further forward. So I am not sure that is correct mate.
Though I personally would prefer we added one more to push/replace Endo, I just don't see the need with Slot's way of playing. I would rather we let a DM sit and the full-backs stay wide, but that is not his way.}
07 Aug 2024 13:51:58
Robbo does concern me and I love the guy one of my absolute favourites. But the injuries are becoming more frequent and then he is taking a while to reach his top level. You were 100% correct on Bradley but I don’t think Beck is at that level.
07 Aug 2024 14:36:21
MK - you’ve brought in the “I’m a better fan” angle. Not sure anyone else here is going down that rabbit hole, I’m not
It’s not even about the merits of a fan, we’re actually dissecting the merits of building a team which is then spilling over to an assessment of the club’s ambitions. Where the conversation gets lost is when some posters make absolute statements about the clubs ambitions based on events that can take time to happen. That seems a little short sighted.
07 Aug 2024 14:27:34
WDW, absolutely agree with you on Tchouameni et al, sometimes it’s not for want of trying if the player has no interest in joining.
Ed001, I think Slot prefers more of a hybrid type midfield anchor who can get about the pitch and is technically sound as well as defensively good, surprised that we didn’t go for Mats Wieffer as he was that position under Slot at Feyenoord, but the three names mentioned make sense in that context as they’re not tackle and pass five yards sideways merchants.
MarkP, only way we’ll find out with Beck is by giving him a chance, he was exceptional in the Scots Premier last season, I’m all in on giving him a shot, if he can replicate the hard work and effort Bradley did then he’ll do fine.
{Ed001's Note - Wieffer is more like Mac Allister, in fact it feels like we are just trying to buy another one of him right now. I don't see the point. We have him already.}
07 Aug 2024 14:53:26
I agree with most of that faith. My worry is you take time and build a team but at the same time you are getting nearer and nearer the time for our best players leaving. With all the best intentions and planning it’s some stretch to think we can find 3 players at the level of Allison, Salah or VVD I think we would do extremely well to find one.
We are close to winning we have a good squad and still a very good side but a couple of quality additions would take us up a level. If we don’t improve the squad I think we will look back and see it as a massive opportunity wasted.
07 Aug 2024 15:30:09
Bradley lit up our last pre season and was ear marked to play earlier but got injured. Beck has not done the same in Pre season. I just don’t see it but fingers crossed.
07 Aug 2024 16:18:46
Faithinworks, if you read through this thread it is littered with subtle digs and passive aggressive replies. Maybe I'm misinterpreting it, but there I'm seeing a lot of 'super fan' vibes. We all love Liverpool. Disagreeing respectfully is actually very easy but as soon as one person is rude, others will always retaliate. I'm not above this behaviour myself, as I'm sure I've engaged in it several times on here. But that doesn't change the fact that I dislike reading it and so I will shamelessly be a hypocrite and call it out when others are doing it! ?
I remember the good old days on here when about 30 of us got together in the real world for a charity football match, so it sucks seeing people be so bitter towards one another every day now.
07 Aug 2024 17:44:29
So Slot is a proven tactician but Klopp and Lijnders' tactics are to blame for the last two seasons?
Klopp and Lijnders have actually won the PL and CL and have been runners up in both on two other occasions and Slot has done what in comparison?
I know what I regard as proven.
07 Aug 2024 18:53:13
Rigsby, we won the League and Champions League playing Klopp’s heavy metal football, Lijnders was very much an assistant coach at that stage. If you listened to all the interviews and pressers from Lijnders and Klopp, Lijnders seemed to have gained a much greater influence just before the 22/ 23 season and they were pretty much fully assimilated by the 23/ 24 season. I’m not saying we were bad because as I said, I think Klopp is a great motivator and man manager and Lijnders is a great coach. But there were clear flaws in the new system after we dropped the false 9 and started with Trent playing as an inverted full back. Not to mention Thiago being brought in to try and slow down the tempo etc. I just don’t think Lijnders tactics quite worked and you only have to listen to his interviews or read his book to know these were all his ideas as he couldn’t wait to take credit for them. Liverpool 2.0 as they called it.
Slot has proven more tactically than Lijnders in my opinion. And it is just my opinion so disagree if you like mate. But Slot set up an AZ Alkmaar team that was in with a real shot to win the Eredivisie before Covid killed his chances and then set up a Feyenoord team that actually did win the Eredivisie. After the point where it was clear Klopp was giving Lijnders more responsibilities we only really won a Carabao Cup and a Communiy Shield. Again, we weren’t bad. Lijnders was seemingly exceptional at getting young players to settle into senior football given the huge upturn in breakthrough campaigns over the last two seasons and when it clicked it really clicked. At times when teams gave us space we were mesmerising. Sadly I think in the very big games, it always seemed to be not quite good enough.
How many times in the last few years have many of us bemoaned tactical decisions or the signing of players that didn’t quite fit? We lost our identity; which was a false 9, flying wing backs, inverted wide men getting the goals, and a workhorse midfield giving everyone else the freedom to express themselves. It became a weird confusing mess in some games. We will have to Agree to disagree though mate because I can tell by the tone of your reply that you won’t be reasoned with on this. To conclude, I personally think Slot’s tactics will work better for us than the tactics Lijnders managed to sell to Klopp and Slot’s fresh enthusiasm will be more infectious for the players than Klopp’s final 6-12 months of looking and sounding defeated by the Prem fixture schedule and British media drama. He looked a broken man towards the end.
07 Aug 2024 20:07:34
MK, how was it clear that Klopp was giving Lijnders more responsibility?
If Klopp did give Lijnders more responsibility then that is down to Klopp. Also bear in mind that Peter Krawietz also spoke about playing with more control the season we won the League.
If Klopp took a step back that is down to Klopp. Either way, the coaches that were responsible for us only winning the Carabao Cup and Charity Shield were also the coaches that won us the PL and CL.
Slot may well prove to be a better tactician than Klopp, Lijnders and Krawietz but they have proven themselves more than the new manager has.
Let's hope that Slot can win more than Klopp and his assistants did though.
08 Aug 2024 00:32:37
Lot of posts but I'll try respond -
Carlo did improve mbappe and thcouamanie (spelling - I'm drunk) if you don't believe me ask them or someone close to them. I don't know them but I do know someone close to them which is how I know I'm right.
You think it's an accident no player has ever said anything bad about Carlo? And he wins trophies everywhere he goes?
Trust me when I say he is extremely well regarded by everyone. I've never met him (hoped to at a real fundraiser last year but he wasn't there) but I expect if I do I'll find him as fascinating as I expect.
Strangely I don't actually know anyone who has worked with slot so I can't give an opinion there but id like to give him the benefit of at least one season to show what he's capable of and watching pre season so far he is exactly what I was told he would be.
Ps been hired by an extremely high profile professional currently playing in Saudi for one on one
Sessions in prep for a national tournament I assumed he wouldn't be playing.
Super interested to see where this goes and is a positive bookend to what has genuinely been the worst three months of my entire life.
08 Aug 2024 01:14:42
Has Ancelotti managed Mbappe yet?
And Ancelotti didn't win anything at Everton, did he?
Who told you what Slot would be and how can you gauge that after pre season so far, Nevada?