19 Aug 2024 10:08:55
Hi,
Question for Ed001. I just read an article about Ian Graham's time with us, and I found it quite interesting how he highlighted the differences in working with Rodgers and Klopp.
Have there been any changes to our previous data-driven approach? I'm curious, especially since our approach to the transfer process has been noticeably different this summer.
{Ed001's Note - there will have been changes to being more data-driven, I would assume, considering Henry's love of stats, the fact he brought back Edwards to oversee everything, the installation of Ward and Hughes, who are all stats men. None of them any good at their jobs, but all stats men. It is little wonder we are completely ****ing up the window with those three running things. Not one has a good track record, except for when they were working with Klopp.}
19 Aug 2024 11:24:04
Be careful ED there's a few on here that think they are the best thing that ever happened to the club this season. They'll be upset.
{Ed001's Note - I know, I have been getting abuse for years for not worshipping at the Edwards' altar. If it wasn't for the Saudis rescuing us last summer, we would still be in contract hell, thanks purely to his incompetence.}
19 Aug 2024 11:29:53
We're good at identifying players for roles/ purposes - Spearman, Fallows, Hunter are clearly at the top of their professions. I think where we fall down is the game theory being used to drive player/ deal value. We are trying to be too clever, borderline arrogant on the dealflow.
19 Aug 2024 11:42:49
Talking to people about transfers often reminds me of that scene in money ball when Billy is ignoring the scouts because they're going off gut feeling
I think some people feel the scouts are right and looking at a player best determines his fit and some are like billy who look at stats.
The funny part is when people think a players looks the part but fails they'll often point to his stats as evidence for the failure but will rarely use stats to support their selection.
{Ed001's Note - that film is utter bollox and completely removed from reality. The team was not built purely on stats at all, but it conveniently ignores the star of the team. Just ask Brighton and Brentford why they dropped a stats-only recruitment model to return to using scouts. Stats are used to identify players to look at, but they use scouts to look at them before they buy.}
19 Aug 2024 11:55:05
Ed001, so this is more likely to be another case of Liverpool having to deal with another Moores-Parry disaster than a Shankly-Paisley succession.
Except this time with have a triumvirate of idiots at the helm, as opposed to a dynamic duo!?
{Ed001's Note - it does feel that way, Slot is not exactly being helped is he?}
19 Aug 2024 12:21:13
I think some of the contract mess was also a product of the friction between Klopp and the spreadsheet nerds. For example, Hendo didn't need a new deal at the time. Saudi definitely saved us there. Also, Ox and Naby should have been moved on 2 years earlier. Who allowed them to train and inevitably get injured in their final preseason? Speaking of which, were they even data driven signings or Klopp picks?
Now that Edwards is in full control, we'll now see what he is actually capable of. So far it's admittedly looking poor.
19 Aug 2024 12:27:35
I'd once again remind people that when it rumoured was that Henderson's contract wasn't going to be renewed about a season or two before he left, people lost their heads and started demanding the immediate ousting of FSG for wanting to sell him before his contract expired because they were "too cheap" to renew our wonderful club captain.
Henderson's contract was renewed, but a year later all of a sudden we should've gotten shot of Henderson and it was a terrible mistake by FSG to renew him.
Hindsight is great, isn't it?
{Ed001's Note - it is not the fans' job to decide that though. These people are employed to know the right time to offload players and they failed in that task.}
19 Aug 2024 12:30:09
Ed, my other concern is why are we overpricing players that have no future with us. Phillips is still here when he should have been sold years ago. Rhys Williams is still here, What about Morton? Is he going to play for us or not. It doesn't seem like Sepp is happy to be here. Diaz father keep yapping about playing is Spain. No news on contact situations of three of our top players. Its like Hughes is on vacation mode.
{Ed001's Note - it is very messy, especially when they had time to get all this sorted. The Euros etc is not an excuse for not offloading Phillips and Williams, for example.}
19 Aug 2024 12:56:04
Appreciated Ed001. But I just find it a cheap dig that some fans have at the owners, especially as in a lot of cases those who were ultimately happy to see the back of Henderson were probably screeching about how bad FSG were on Twitter a year previous for allegedly being prepared to let him go.
I suppose at least Henderson was a conversation worth having in terms of whether he should be kept or not. Why Keita, Phillips, Ox etc. weren't offloaded years before they were, or in Phillips' case, is still here, is a true headscratcher.
{Ed001's Note - I just find that it means you know that fan is ignorant of the situation at the club when they blame FSG. So it is safe to just ignore their opinion, as it is based on not having a clue. FSG don't deal with contracts. FSG are at fault in the appointment of the people who deal with them, but they don't decide who gets a new deal or not.}
19 Aug 2024 13:21:49
Surely Edwards has to take some credit for helping assemble possibly our greatest ever side. I appreciate he may have made mistakes, but credit where credit's due.
19 Aug 2024 13:37:58
The real question is whether this success of our greatest side can be achieved without Klopp? let's say someone else is the manager at the time, would we achieve the same level of success? I personally don't think so. Will Klopp succeed if someone else in charge instead of Edwards? I would think so. Would Edwards be lauded as much as he is now without Klopp? I doubt it.
19 Aug 2024 13:40:30
Phillips should be long gone by now. Also i hope Hughes is constantly asked or the likes of big mouth Carra asks publicly why the 3 players haven't been offered contracts by now. I hope media pundits or public figures specially ask why those players haven't been offered contracts. Are we a selling club now? They get plaudits for selling quality players and letting 3 top players go on a free?
19 Aug 2024 14:07:13
Would you have sold Salah, VVD and TAA earlier this summer then, Mizer?
19 Aug 2024 14:21:27
Apparently Nat Phillips on £65k a week! Not sure who decided he deserved that weekly salary, but that is extremely poor management. No wonder he isn't keen to leave, he wouldn't be getting that salary anywhere else.
19 Aug 2024 18:54:52
Stuie, I believe he was rewarded with a meaty contract when he bailed us out of a hole and came in and played pretty well during our CB crisis a few seasons ago. £65k is mental, but if we had signed someone at the time, we'd have had a transfer fee and wages to pay for them.
Might be a bit short-sighted, but probably suited us best at the time.
19 Aug 2024 18:58:29
Liverpool haven't had a solid window for several years. Most of the good work was done 2015-18. The lack of succession planning has been horrific. The 2019 window was sheer arrogance and the 2022 window was abysmal. All parties need to take ownership of that, including (/ especially? ) Klopp.
{Ed001's Note - last summer was good.}
19 Aug 2024 19:40:08
Only because we were saved from ourselves by Chelsea on Lavia and Caicedo, Ed. That was scary. It was also the confirmation for me that we had completely lost our way on recruitment and needed to bring some structure and restraint back to the process. Gravenberch didn't seem like he was brought in with a long-term plan in mind, more "we need another body in midfield, let's double Bayern's money on what they paid for him even though he's barely played. "
{Ed001's Note - I disagree on Lavia, he is an excellent player and would have suited us.}
19 Aug 2024 20:26:02
Pressed send in error. As I was saying, these people love to use either Edwards or Klopp as a stick to beat the owners with as if one is independent of the other (s) . I found that weird and pathetic but that is how obsessed they are about FSG. You see them going after FSG for the Zubi signing not working out as if they were the ones who convinced him not to come.
Sadly, I agree that they have been making the wrong appointments and that is their cross to bear but to continue attacking them for transfers not being made or for contracts not being sorted, is just cringe as heck, imo.
19 Aug 2024 22:04:58
Rugby, no fault of Nats, I'd be the same if we're him!