10 Sep 2024 08:51:01
Ed.
I get your stance on signing Mamar just to make money. Can I play Devil's advocate without you hurting me?!
Is that not OK? If it doesn't disrupt the first team dressing room (Kweev wanted out anyway) and it generates cash which goes into the firrst team eventually, and the player still gets adequate development and training and first team games, isn't that a valid strategy? After all, what would the motivation be to generate more cash? For the owners to take some, yes, but if the club is generally wealthier, that makes us more powerful overall, yes? I'm not saying I agree - this isn't football manager - but I'm saying I kind of get it.
{Ed001's Note - but it doesn't generate more money to go back into the budget, it takes money away from the budget, that is then tied up for years. Along with the money and staff time used to liaise with the player. When eventually it is realised, it is not as valuable as it would have been initially anyway, as inflation renders every penny slightly less valuable. Along with that, if successful there will be a desire to simply reinvest it again to make more and so on. Look at Chelsea, there attempts to use this trading model are such a miserable failure that they are having to sell all their youth academy players as well. These kind of trading models are fine if you are say an individual with a definite plan to cash out at a specific point ie retirement. Otherwise it is just a completely inefficient waste of resources as player trading in general is by far the most inefficient use of club resources. The only model that works to increase revenue is improving performance on the pitch. Bigger stadiums, better training facilities etc feed into that, but buying players you don't even see as a future first team player does not. That is why Chelsea dropped away from the heights they hit early on. Man City, on the other hand have built everything around improving the team. Chelsea bought players to loan out, City just went and bought teams to feed into the main team. It was a similar level of investment made but which is succeeding?}
10 Sep 2024 10:21:32
The 'keeper could be a replacement for Alisson or Kelleher. The 'keeper could have been bought to be sold but can anyone say how much he will be sold for and say that inflation will render his value lower than the initial investment?
{Ed002's Note - Giorgi Mamardashvili was purchased to replace Alisson. Caoimhin Kelleher wants out still - and will look to leave in January. Both expect to be starters.}
10 Sep 2024 11:49:43
Hughes wanted to do Bournemoth a favour by loaning him out this or next season as there is no way he is ahead of Alisson. Or even C Kelleher potentially.
Silly decision in whichever way you to try to paint.
Ed01 is absolutely right on this one.
10 Sep 2024 13:20:27
I’m trying here but I just don’t understand Ed1’s point of view. If Kelleher wants out is it not prudent to buy some competition/ cover for Alisson?
They obviously don’t think Jaros is ready to be that so they’ve bought the perceived best keeper at the euros and loaned him for a year until Kelleher leaves.
What’s the beef here?
It’s irrelevant that you think he’s not good with his feet, the club/ scouts obviously think he can do a job for us when Kelleher leaves and I’m all for that.
This is not me blindly defending the club I genuinely think they’ve done the right thing here if Kelleher wants out. Especially if they think Jaros isn’t ready or good enough.
{Ed001's Note - so buy a player that they clearly don't think is ready is a good thing if they are buying him because they don't think Jaros is ready? I just give up, I am done even bothering to give an opinion when someone comes along and tells me it is irrelevant. It is not worth my time and effort for some ignorant person to come along and dismiss any coherent argument with such stupid comments. If they thought Mamardashvili was good enough and ready, he would not be loaned out.
Last time I am bothering to even answer questions on here, Becker pecker you can answer them all from now on. You clearly think your opinion is worth more than anyone else's.}
10 Sep 2024 14:00:55
Marma has shot stopping data putting him on par with Oblak.
Kelleher wants to go somewhere be a number 1. But NO other club has been near his LFC's overvaluation no for 3 years now.
Ali is only only committed "so far" until 2026.
So, disagree and they take there ball and go home? Might be time to just wrap it all up mates.
10 Sep 2024 13:59:29
Ed, I think a number of people expect Alisson to leave in the next year or two. This may be complete nonsense, and the recent comments by Alisson would suggest that, but I think people are looking at Mamardashvili and expecting that he’ll be our number one sooner rather than later, which is why your opinion about making money might be a bit confusing.
Regarding the matter’s readiness, I think people are comparing it to the Courtois situation when he went to Atletico for two years while Cech was kept until he really needed replacing. People are also looking at him and expecting him to be a definitive upgrade on Kelleher, so therefore definitely not a number two.
The trouble is, Alisson is probably the best goalkeeper of all time, and certainly the best of the modern era. While he is fit and happy to play for us, our expensive new recruit will have to wait. That could be years.
10 Sep 2024 14:48:19
I think that is Ed's point Lowe. His signing makes no sense if it is for a number 2 keeper as we already have Kelleher and Jaros who are good enough to be number 1 elsewhere, let alone number 2. Besides, he is ill-suited to play the way we do, with a keeper who sweeps up danger and sets us on quick counters, so it makes little sense that he is to be Allison's replacement even if Allison is to leave. And Allison has indicated that he has no plans to leave.
All in all, even though he is a good young keeper in his own right, we spent money in an area of the field where we didn't really need to when it could have been better used elsewhere. We're not flush with cash and £30m is not an insignificant amount of money.
10 Sep 2024 14:48:44
ED01 at first, I can only think that the club had an incling or feeling that Ali could leave in a season or two hence, they got Mamardashvili in early esp. since we all know Kellerher wants to go as soon as the opportunity presents itself and would have gone this summer had a suitable offer came so I could see what the club has done there.
Now all the above went to crap the moment Ali said after the Brentford game (I think) that he is happy here and wouldn't mind resigning. At that point, I no longer understood what was going on cos Ali ain't getting pushed out for Marmadashvili hence, I do not know what to believe anymore. Just my reading of the situation. Cheers, man.
10 Sep 2024 14:53:58
I apologise if I upset you Ed1 I did say at the start of my post that I’m really trying to understand where you’re coming from but I just don’t. I’m sorry if that upsets you.
It might just be that they do think Marm is ready to be a number 2 to Alisson but Kelleher is still there at the moment so we don’t need 2 number 2s at the club.
Kelleher obviously wants to leave so they’ve bought Marm to take over from him next season after his season long loan. Then if Ali does go he can have a go at being number 1. If Ali stays then he’s battling it out for the number 1 spot and we still have a decent number 2.
That makes sense to me and is exactly what the club have been criticised for not doing with VVD and Salah.
If I’m wrong then I’m wrong but it does make sense if they think Marm is the future after Ali decides to call it a day.
10 Sep 2024 15:53:13
Think is something that works in fifa and rarely in real life. Bit like loaning players rarely works out but there is the odd Harry Kane - why lottery likes to publicise winners.
10 Sep 2024 16:32:19
BP, we are going to have to see ho things shake out cos as my post on this thread shows, I have no idea what is going on or went on regarding this GK situation. Only time will tell so let's give it time.
Still happy that Ali is going to be here next season as well so that's a good thing, at least.
10 Sep 2024 17:46:16
We did not sign Mamardashvili to be #2. He didn’t sign to be #2 and I am pretty sure Alisson will not be offered a long term contract after 2026.
Neither will VVD, neither will Salah and I do not expect Trent to sign either.
It is not about money, it is about future planning. Edwards and co are damned if they do something to avoid getting shafted when contracts expire and damned when they don’t do anything.
Everyone thought Keegan was irreplaceable, how did that work out?
10 Sep 2024 20:45:40
I don’t think he’s signed to be a number 2 St Etienne but that doesn’t mean he won’t be. If Ali stays on then he’ll have to work tremendously hard to oust him.
If not then he’ll be a number 2. It’s the same as any position you need strength in depth so if the first choice gets a bit complacent they know there’s a quality replacement breathing down their neck.
We tend to think differently about goalkeepers but it’s the same premise. If Kelleher is going to leave then having Marm in the squad can only be a good thing surely?
{Ed025's Note - it would be if he was any good BP..
10 Sep 2024 21:29:52
He went on loan for a year so that our fans could learn his name.
10 Sep 2024 21:41:39
Alisson wipes the floor with everyone. We should be concentrating on keeping him at all costs.
10 Sep 2024 22:43:48
Ed25 according to Ed01, Mamardashvili is a brilliant GK. Ed01 said so himself on a recent thread (as I never saw him play at Valencia prior) and used the exact word "brilliant". He even said so in your last podcast.
Ed01 in fact, likened him to De Gea as in, a brilliant GK who is not very good with his feet to play the modern game hence, the way we play. That does not mean "he is not any good". Now if you have seen him play a fair bit and think he is not any good then please, share what your assessment is of him. Cheers.
{Ed025's Note - im basing it on what i have heard Oli and that is that he is a very good shot stopper but lacks the ability to play with his feet and is not very commanding in his box...the new Jordan Pickford by the sounds of it mate, thats why i say "IF hes any good" because its all really guess work up to now, i think it was you who was bigging up Karius when he signed for Lliverpool and he was hailed as the new Neuer...and look how that turned out, i think hes working at McDonalds or Burger King now....or should be.. :)
11 Sep 2024 01:07:17
Haven't read the entire thread but LFC8, has it pretty spot on. Alisson right now is untouchable, will probably be our number 1 for a minimum another 3 seasons and I'd dare to say even beyond that. He's showing no signs of any decline either and is the best in the world, in addition to that he loves it at Liverpool. People it seems were just happy to see we signed somebody new even though it didn't and probably never will benefit us.
He probably wasn't told he'd be number two, he won't be happy about that who would be? apparently he is good, he may be good but he's no Alisson. No keeper out there is anywhere near his level. If I'm the new keeper come that point (probably nearning the end of his contract) I'd be wanting out like Kelleher is. Can't blame them but it's the good position we're in when we have the best keeper in the world.
It's really simple, if you are good enough you will be number 1 if you aren't, you won't be. Kelleher and this other lad are good but will never be Alisson, as long as he is active he has that top dog spot. The other lads are good enough to move elsewhere and be number one so who can blame them if they did? their careers are too short to be playing second fiddle.
I'm not saying this lad is a bad signing but it made no sense to me from the off. When we needed other positions strenthening why in the world did we find it ok to strengthen or attempt to streghthen a position which isn't needed to be improved upon? again it makes no sense. Waste of money.
I am pretty confident in saying one thing, I believe we will lose money on him. We'll sell him for next to bugger all.
StEtienne, why do you think Alisson won't be offered a new contract? we'd be absolute fools not to offer him a new contract. I believe there's no debate about it - we 100% will. Your post is absolute nonsense, the entire post. Wake up. Have you heard the club are in talks at the minute about signing new contracts or did you miss that? Not heard anything about Trent's contract yet but they won't offer VVD and Salah one without offering Trent one.
11 Sep 2024 07:09:40
The best guy to sign to compete with Ali at similar level is Lev yeshin. "You don't know what its worth, not untill you loose it".
11 Sep 2024 08:13:01
Salah, what if Alisson doesn't want a new contract?
I know we are Liverpool and how could he not but he just might want to try playing elsewhere.
Like countless other players have.
11 Sep 2024 09:11:59
Rigsby, if he doesn't want a new contract then that's fair enough mate but going on his recent comments that isn't the case.
11 Sep 2024 09:33:15
What comments, Salah?
He said he'd his finish his contract or sign a new one, didn't he?
That doesn't say what his intentions are and why should he? Two years is a long time; especially in football.
11 Sep 2024 10:28:00
Imagine if he didn’t sign a contract and Kelleher wasn’t here - there would be a clamour for us to sign a wotld class goalkeeper, wouldn’t there.
11 Sep 2024 09:41:10
Ed025 I also recall you stating that Pickford was as good as Alisson mate and look how that one turned out. One has gone on to win everything and the other is battling to avoid relegation every season.
{Ed025's Note - it was a wind up DTD, of course he is not as good as Alisson he is just a shot stopper who is pretty good with his feet mate..
11 Sep 2024 14:17:33
Marmadashvili is a very good keeper from what little I've seen and the De Gea comparison is pretty accurate in my opinion.
I'm glad we signed him. The goalkeeper position has changed over time. What used to be a role you could easily play until 40 (just standing on your line fielding shots and punching anything that was crossed into the 6 yard box) has completely changed. Keepers now are expected to fly out off their line to sweep behind a high line, they're asked to deal with far more back passes than ever and generally they seem to be told to catch the ball a lot more all over the penalty area which results in some very heavy landings.
Goalkeeper injuries seem to be very frequent in the modern game, especially as they move into their 30's. Whilst Alisson hasn't shown any signs of decline in his ability, his availability is undeniably showing signs of decline. Therefore I think it was rather prudent to go and sign what some believe to be the best u23 goal keeper there is right now.
Only time will tell if it was indeed the right decision. Many Liverpool fans have berated the lack of succession planning for our 4 best players; yet we now sit in a position where we have Chiesa if Salah leaves, Bradley if Trent leaves and Marmadashvili if Alisson leaves. Virgil is the only one left where we haven't got a clear replacement up our sleeves. Even then though, I'd argue Quansah could potentially replace him as the partner to Konate.
I don't think this signing warrants the negativity I've seen but it's an opinions game.
11 Sep 2024 14:39:43
That’s exactly it WDW. I don’t see any harm in protecting the keeper position because if Kelleher does leave and the Ali decides to leave in 2026 then we are up the creek without a paddle!
They had an opportunity to sign a keeper that they believe could be good enough if we are left without a keeper in 2 years time. We don’t need him right now so we loaned him for a year.
Whether we think he’s good enough is irrelevant, they obviously do and there have been countless signings over the past 8 years that have been called not good enough on here and have turned out to be great business by the club.
Weren’t most lamenting the signing of Gravenberch last season because we ‘didn’t need him’. Well we need him now don’t we?!
11 Sep 2024 19:15:35
Waste of money to me unless they recoup the money through the sale of kell eventually, however kell is better than him anyway. So alli stays next season, then what we loan him back out again? Wants to be a starter? Not good enough. Been here before with keepers. Go big or go home situations. If he has stats like oblak go buy oblak. Oblak has proved his class for years.
12 Sep 2024 00:28:06
What makes you think Kelleher is better than Mamardashvili, Magico?
Mamardashvili would be a starter if he went on loan, wouldn't he?
What makes you think we could just buy Oblak and what would he cost?
Would you spend a load of money on Oblak, send him out loan until Alisson was ready to leave and you really think he'd be happy with that?
You've not really thought about this, have you?
12 Sep 2024 09:34:58
And, Rigsby I'm not saying otherwise but what makes you think Mamardashvili is better then Kelleher? I'm guessing you've seen him play plenty? if so I'd be interested to hear more about him from you. Unfortunately as you know, the site is full of people using the odd 1-2 posters comments instead of actually knowing about him and seeing him play. It seems suddenly we sign a new keeper and to justify it everybody says he's an excellent keeper. One I might add I've never heard of until he signed.
I'm not calling the lad good or bad, I know bugger all about him but you appear to be pretty fixated on him, I can only assume you're up there with the minority who have seen him play quite alot?
Your point about him being out on loan and being a starter makes no sense mate. He isn't a starter for us is he? who's ahead of him? One thing for certain is I don't care about what other clubs do, I care what Liverpool do and who is picked here. Alisson is number one, Kelleher as things stand is number two, why? because they are good enough. The new manager comes in he can make whatever changes he wishes, he didn't make any change in this department. I do wonder why or am I missing something here?
The discussion must of happened, the club aren't that stupid, they sign a player and it's a case of do we keep him at the club or loan him out, the loan out was pretty much a no brainer to them, why? when we were getting offers for Kelleher at the same time? why was it not the other way around and we sell/ loan Kelleher out? why because he's good enough to be our number two.
You stating to a poster about not really thinking about it is your unsuccessful attempt at justifying an opinion instead of stating fact which none of us can do right now regarding this. It is an opinions game, learn something from MK - another one I don't agree with on this matter but at least his response to it is a fair one.
12 Sep 2024 12:05:27
Rigsby so marshmallow is happy To be backup then is he? And what makes you think he's better than kell? He's a starter for valencia, betting now he'll never be anything but a back up for us
Oblack was just an example, you want a top keeper buy one, if you want a back up like marsh fair enough.
Top keepers are few and far between. When alli decides he's had enough and moves on, then we buy big again.
All these posters saying he's a great keeper, YouTube highlights no doubt. Or sudden valencia fans. Yeah ok.
12 Sep 2024 12:06:02
Exactly salah mate.
13 Sep 2024 19:53:43
I personally think Kelleher has the potential to be as good as Alisson given time. Problem is he wants to be no 1 which he’s good enough to be but Alisson is on another level so unfortunately for Kelleher to get what he wants he has to look elsewhere. Shame really.
{Ed025's Note - yeah Scoot, Kelleher could be as good as Allison and Curtis Jones could be the next KDB....and i could cop off with Jo Blythe the weather girl mate. :)