07 Oct 2024 12:28:47
The ex-Liverpool coaches and player plus a Liverpool loanee are having a torrid time in Austria.
Hopefully it was just a Sturm in a teacup and they just need a Brest.
07 Oct 2024 13:23:31
Just proves pep hasn’t a clue, what could have been if we never appointed him.
07 Oct 2024 13:59:35
I had been saying it and even tho it's early on, Lijnders would have nowhere to hide cos we alll knew that at some point, he was going to have to go out there and make a career of his own without Klopp to hide behind and benefit from Klopp's clout.
At that point, I knew that all that big talk and benefiting from Klopp's success and his grace when he shares his success with the whole staff, would come to and end and right now, it ain't looking too good. Time for him to go swim on his own and get his own success. Let the games begin.
07 Oct 2024 15:21:54
Don't get the relish in this tbh.
07 Oct 2024 15:42:22
Me neither SR. I'd rather they did well. Partly because of Pep and Clarke but mainly because of Bajetic (who it would appear is still struggling to get to training on time) .
07 Oct 2024 16:13:55
I don't get it either, Something Red. It's getting tiresome. Klopp is on record as saying how much he owes to Ljinders. It maybe the case that he doesn't have what it takes to make it as a manager, there have been many over the years who've not been able to step up. That doesn't make him a poor coach. And, if our greatest manager in recent years rates him, that's good enough for me. There will still be people on here blaming Pep's book if we go on a poor run.
07 Oct 2024 17:02:05
What did Linders ever do to get such hate?
07 Oct 2024 17:16:15
Some people on here are desperate for Pep Ljinders to fail. Some way of thanking an ex coach that gave years of service to the club and was by all accounts well liked and respected by the manager and players.
07 Oct 2024 17:19:20
It's like Brian Kidd at United.
07 Oct 2024 17:20:58
My guess JK23 is writing that book. Klopp won it not him.
07 Oct 2024 17:37:50
"What could have been if we never appointed him".
Yes, a dark period in our history. Utterly tainted forever by winning 7 trophies, including the club's first Premier League and World Club Championship.
Thank God that's over.
07 Oct 2024 18:23:54
Lijnders helped us win the League for the first time in 30 years and win the CL again. I don't why he gets such a bad press. I'd love to see some of you discuss this Jürgen Klopp ?.
An' another fing, he didn't write that book. How many of you have actually read the book?
It was an official club book but why let the truth get in the way of a good whine?
07 Oct 2024 18:24:55
I hope he does well. I think Peps problem at Liverpool (along with Jurgan) was when things weren’t going well on the pitch we were too stubborn to change it!
All that inverted nonsense and late substitutions, passing it around the back. We just didn’t change it when we needed to and that put a slight dampner of the last couple of seasons.
07 Oct 2024 19:07:11
Buvac was our assistant when we won the prem and ucl, get your facts right.
07 Oct 2024 19:13:43
YNWA eh?
07 Oct 2024 19:56:35
It's you that needs to get your facts right, Arnes barber ?.
07 Oct 2024 19:58:02
@west: ynwa comes with a lot of asterisks now a days, it’s a shame, part of the reason why I fell in love with Liverpool is dying.
07 Oct 2024 20:08:22
Arnes barber embarrassing himself again ?.
07 Oct 2024 20:11:39
The reason I have beef with Linders is cos he acts like everything we got right was because of him and not cos of Klopp. If you are an assistant, that stuff should never come out of your mouth, IMO. Did you ever hear Rui Farias (I think that's Jose's former trusted assistant back in the day) say such rubbish even after he left Jose? And even if that were true, Farias never said any of that. In fact, I have never heard any assistant of a top, successful mmanager engage in such nonsense while literally still being in the job with his boss.
Also, we have Peter Kravietz who has been with Klopp since their playing days and thu out Klopp's coaching adventure way longer than Lijnders ever was. The guy has enuff clout to talk about how Klopp and him had such a good relationship they had. Frankly, I have no idea what the guy sounds like. The guy almost NEVER speaks in the media.
This is even worse for me cos I thought years ago that Lijnders could even take over from Klopp cos he knew the system inside out BUT as soon as his mouth became too big for him and then using Klopp's achievements to boost his own profile, I said no way.
Now, I hope this is helpful to those who think I hate Pep. Hate? Sorry, that's not how I live.
07 Oct 2024 20:18:01
I wish them all the best but there is no denying they are having a torrid time and have had their pants pulled down in the last two games they have played. And two games doesn’t make a bad coach or team.
I didn’t mean to stir up a cauldron of sensitivity, it was just an opportunistic play on words.
07 Oct 2024 21:06:03
His coaching and input crippled fantastic players. We were held back with linders input but that largely falls with klopp for enabling it.
Linders is now at a club where he doesn't have world class players especially in defense to cover his severely flawed style of play.
07 Oct 2024 21:09:14
Oli, how did Lijnders act and what did he say that made you think that everything we got right was because of him and not Klopp?
Have you any examples or quotes from him or are you blindly following Ed001's opinions again?
07 Oct 2024 21:41:47
For the record, Lijnders was with us 14-17, 18-24. Whatever criticism is levelled at him, lies with Klopp, as he was his boss.
07 Oct 2024 21:59:07
100% Rigsby. Oli waiting to see what The Ed says and then lecturing us all on it is v tiresome.
07 Oct 2024 22:27:24
Well, I now want Klopp to fail in his next job because he enabled his assistant to cripple our fantastic players.
They were crippled that badly that they were the biggest challenge to Guardiola's Man City and made three CL finals, winning one.
Klopp's view of Lijnders is worth far more than any of the Eds and contributors on here to me.
You can argue about tactics, egos and books but the facts are that with Lijnders Liverpool won trophies, including the biggest two, and regularly had us as one of the top clubs in Europe.
07 Oct 2024 22:27:24
Lijnders might not have the talent as a coach or manager that we or he wishes he has, but I’m sure he gave his all everyday, tried his best for Liverpool, was endorsed by klopp. He never, as far as I know, faked an injury to get out of our club, badmouthed the club or intentionally put us up to fail. In my opinion that makes him part of the family, since, as far as I can tell, he always tried his very best to make us successful. So I’m terribly sorry, but I really don’t get why people would want anything else then for him to be successful, except against us, if his team ever plays us.
07 Oct 2024 22:31:42
Which players were left crippled?
07 Oct 2024 22:47:24
I wish Lijnders well and haven't taken any joy in seeing Salzburgs results this season. But he did himself no favours by taking credit for our tactics last year, continuing to invert Trent which just was not working.
07 Oct 2024 22:49:23
Well said, Rigsby.
07 Oct 2024 22:54:25
Pep Lijnders is regarded as an excellent coach who was involved in Liverpools recent success. Wonder how he managed 9 seasons at the club if he was so useless. klop was the manager, so he is ultimately responsible for how the team play, not Ljinders.
Hw may prove to be a flop as a manager and better suited to coaching, but I hope he succeeds and would take no pleasure in seeing him fail.
07 Oct 2024 19:16:46
Ed001 was right he bombed out at NEC and now he's at Salzburg the top club in his league he is being found out for his stubbornness. Watch them play and its the same vast spaces having to be defended against for the CBs. Suicidal football with one long ball over the top and your in the channels running at the defense.
08 Oct 2024 00:18:30
I never really understood the criticism of Lijnders either.
It’s like a surgeon botching my operation and me blaming the nurse for the way he handed him the scalpel.
Klopp was the manager, if you had a problem with the way we played, that blame lies at his door and his door only.
But we all loved Klopp and he was beyond criticism so some just found someone else to criticise.
08 Oct 2024 00:39:38
If I speak.
Hopefully he turns it around and Baj and Clark have good seasons. Don's wish him ill. I just felt he and Kornmayer had way too much control in Jurgen's final 3 seasons and it resulted in us being a shade short when it counted.
08 Oct 2024 04:04:08
The schadenfreude towards Lijnders stems from two years of watching his nonsense tactics hamper the team from achieving what it might have (among other factors, I know) . Unfair, perhaps, but fans annoyed by the terrible football we were playing are perfectly within reason to say “I told you so” to those who thought he’d be able to take over from Klopp.
Ultimately, why Lijnders is receiving such criticism is actually down to Klopp, however. The latter should have never allowed the former so much influence on the playing style.
08 Oct 2024 07:37:39
How do so many fans know about the power balance and who was responsible for the tactics of Klopp's management team in his last two seasons? ?
I don't have clue and I won't pretend that I do. If Lijnders was to blame for hampering the team then he is also to blame for us winning the Carabao Cup, getting us into the CL and challenging the two sides that are better than us for as long as we did last season.
People like to have a convenient scapegoat for us not winning everything by playing fabulous football and this forum has given them one.
08 Oct 2024 08:09:49
The power balance is irrelevant Rigsby. Klopp was the manager so the buck stops with him.
Like you said though we didn’t do too bad with a brand new midfield and having to play half the academy for 2 months of the season.
08 Oct 2024 08:39:21
Got any pics of these crippled players in wheelchairs MIZER?
Or any stories of their rehab and learning to walk again?
08 Oct 2024 09:01:27
Ironically the ones that have “beef” with him are the same ones who clamoured for his appointment as manager. Who knew ?♂️. Maybe if they made their own opinions in the first instance they wouldn’t find themselves down such rabbit holes.
08 Oct 2024 09:08:14
I agree that the power balance is irrelevant on here, BP, because no one knows much about it ?.
My point is that a lot of the criticism of Lijnders is unfounded. Does anyone know the inner workings of the management team during Lijnders time? It's not hard to find opinions and criticism of him on the web because pundits like Dietmar Hamann have had a say about it.
Hamann and other critics of Lijnders could be justified to some extent but what are the bases of their arguments?
I know very little about Lijnders but I do know that he was part of the management team when Liverpool became one of the top clubs in Europe again.
08 Oct 2024 10:56:40
CRIPPLED THEY WERE ????.
08 Oct 2024 11:15:49
Rigsby, there is lots of evidence over the years that told us that Ljinders and Kornmayer had greater influence over tactics and team selection in the final Klopp years. It was reported by many reputable LFC journalists and Klopp hinted at it many times too over the years.
The fact that Klopp sent Ljinders up to take league cup press conferences for 3 years is another indicator, as was actually listening to what he would say in those press conferences. And then there is the infamous book. Have a read of it and see if you think it suggests Ljinders was a mere servant.
And finally, as you are long-time poster here, so you'll have read Ed's take on Ljinders over the years, which will have been an informed opinion.
As just to avoid any confusion for you - yes, Klopp was ultimately accountable.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we really needed a coaching staff and midfield refresh after the quad chasing season. We didn't and the rest is history.
I am sure you will now reply with "but how do you/ anyone know this? " lol.
08 Oct 2024 13:23:36
You said it all, Pelican, when you said 'And finally, as you are long-time poster here, so you'll have read Ed's take on Ljinders over the years, which will have been an informed opinion'
Or should I call you Oli? ?
If I concede that Lijnders had more influence even though he was 'sent' to do League Cup press conferences ? was it really that bad over his last two seasons? We slipped out of the CL places but wasn't that down to the front three breaking up and the aging midfield not being dealt with? And last season was a good season. We won a cup and only finished behind the best two teams in the League!
08 Oct 2024 13:53:47
Rigsby, you might be surprised to discover that when we say that Ljinders and Kornmayer influence was significant, that it includes load management and recruitment, not just a team sheet and positions on a tactics board.
08 Oct 2024 16:08:56
Can you elaborate, Pelican?
Was Lijnders significant enough to help rebuild the midfield that finished third last season and has us sitting top at the moment?
Surely the past two seasons have had some bearing on this one. Does he deserve some credit with him having so much influence?
08 Oct 2024 17:53:58
@thunderbird well Liverpool are top of the league so the hairdresser has nothing else to moan about at the moment.
08 Oct 2024 18:45:00
Rigsby, I am not falling into your "please elaborate" trap again.
On the last two seasons, we failed.
We fell off badly in 2022/ 23 and even with the second pre-season after the world cup, we could not fix our tactics to tighten up our midfield to win games again. It took us until the end of March to find enough form to secure a Europa League place.
Last season was better although the basketball game tactic eventually and expectedly proved unsustainable in the business end. Yes, comebacks and late winners were fun. But, we could have won the league if we added a bit of pragmatism. Last season was not deemed a success after leading the table for most of the season.
08 Oct 2024 20:14:14
That's where we differ, Pelican.
I don't have us down as leading the table for most of last season and I don't see the season as a failure. Top three and a trophy is a good one. The same goes for this season, too. We're not as good as City and Arsenal.
You must think that Lijnders did some good though if you think we led the table for most of the season and recruited well enough for third place and a trophy to be seen as failure though.
08 Oct 2024 22:46:52
And herein lies the problem Rigsby. People are so entitled these days that they think their team finishing 3rd in arguably the most competitive top league in the world and winning a trophy is a failure.
Based on that logic there is only ever 1 team that can claim a successful season and everyone else is a failure. You could even say City are failures every season because with what they’ve spent they should literally win everything, every season.
People don’t understand that there are an endless number of mitigating factors. You need a lot of luck with injuries, decisions, the fixture lists, the timings of fixtures etc etc.
Plus there are a number of teams in the premier league that have spent a lot of time and money on players, coaches, managers, infrastructure to win the same trophies that we want to win.
Long story short, winning anything in England is not easy. Even for Liverpool. We should be happy and proud that we are one of a few teams that actually have a realistic chance and not call it failure when we come up a bit short. All teams apart from one do and in the last few seasons that team has been the most expensively assembled team in world football.
09 Oct 2024 05:44:03
I’m expecting to see a photo of Oli on today’s milk carton under the heading ‘missing’.
For someone who replies to others as ‘ I will wait’ he certainly doesn’t hold himself to the same standards.