09 Oct 2024 10:32:56
Just to jog some people's memory if you're old enough. When we let Ray Houghton, Johnny Barnes and Ian Rush go in the 90s, we were never the same for 30 years.
So serious thought needs to be taken before we let VVD, Trent and Salah leave.
09 Oct 2024 10:58:31
I’m old enough to remember when we sold Keegan….
Losing those players you mentioned were not the downfall of the club in the 90’s. Moore’s and Parry stood still, whilst United powered forward with sponsorship, driving up revenue, floating on the stock exchange in order to rebuild old Trafford and give Fergie huge funds to spend on his teams…
We fell behind for 30years through a complete lack of vision.
09 Oct 2024 11:09:19
No inside information but I have a feeling we shall tie at least 2 of the above into a contract. VVD and one of Salah or Trent. I also feel the peak of Saudi league spending may be over and they may not offer the crazy amounts. Hoping for the best and getting them all sorted.
09 Oct 2024 11:39:15
If you were there you would know there was only one name that screwed us up in the 90’s for 30 yrs and that is Graeme Souness. Sold a team of players that were mom week in week out for their new teams and replaced them with total dross. Nothing to do with money. Evan’s bought Collymore in 1995 for £8.5m shattering Andy Cole’s transfer record.
09 Oct 2024 12:48:53
For a start, John Barnes left in 1997. So it hasn't even been 30 years since he left, and we'd already gone 7 years without winning a League or European Cup before he left. Not sure that's a valid point at all.
On the topic of losing huge players for nothing look at Man City between 2019-2022. They lost arguably their 4 most important players in David Silva, Fernandinho, Aguero and Kompany all in that 3 year window and got virtually nothing in terms of transfer fees as far as I'm aware.
Liverpool now find ourselves in a similar situation where our 4 best players (Alisson, Trent, Virgil and Salah) are all at a crossroads or very close to it. We could feasibly lose all 4 players in the next 20 months. City managed to stagger it over a 3 years period and I think that is what we need to do. I personally think Trent's head has been turned (not in the know, just my opinion) but I'd be looking to get Virgil on a 2 year extension and Salah and Alisson on a 1 year extensions. The Saudi offer will still be there for Mo if he waits another 12 months, Alisson is still great when he is fit and Virgil is back to as close as he's been to his pre-ACL form in my opinion.
If we can stagger the loss of our spine, then it is more than manageable. If we lost Trent in 2025, Salah in 2026 and Alisson/ Virgil in 2027 I don't see us having too much of a problem managing that transition whilst staying competitive. I am really hoping Trent stays, but if he want's to go play for Real Madrid with his best mate for more money and a better chance of silverware, I won't be shocked or angry.
{Ed025's Note - the thing is MK that Citys owners just sell another few million barrels of oil if they lose players for nothing and go again, as far as i am aware Liverpool are not afforded that luxury mate and it could have a massive impact for forthcoming seasons, how its got to this point im not sure but it does seem a bit amateurish if you ask me..
09 Oct 2024 12:56:03
And stan the man was a very good player….
Sourness was a absolute disaster of a manager but the only players were Peter Beardsley and perhaps Steve Staunton of any significance that he sold wasn’t it?
09 Oct 2024 12:59:24
Aye War Machine, I remember those days rightly - he just completely dismantled that team and replaced with players that were simply nowhere near the standard of ones he let go
And I agree Drogie, Utd moved forward commercially, Moore and Parry just stood still - loved the stature of their positions then more than anything I felt, no thinking for the future etc, and we just fell further and further behind - dark times indeed.
09 Oct 2024 13:05:00
Drogie and Ed025 are completely right. Liverpool sell those 3 players wasn't the catalyst to our downfall it was the muppets running the club. Billy is 100% correct it is very very amateurish from Liverpool and if I were Trent I'd very very tempted to walk away and go to RM.
{Ed025's Note - hi Bazza, yeah mate i thought that with 2 years to go on their contracts they should be offered a new deal, if they dont sign within the next 6 months they should be put on the transfer list so that you can get some serious coin for them, losing them for nothing is criminal imo..
09 Oct 2024 13:07:03
They didn't leave at the same time and they were all in their thirties.
Rush and Barnes would have been well into their thirties.
We had the best years of all three and you could say the same about Salah and VVD. And we can't stop them if they want to leave.
The players and the club are not going to react just to appease some fans.
09 Oct 2024 13:24:30
the main point you even included MK Scouser is 2019-2022, that's 3 years. not all of them in one go.
09 Oct 2024 14:09:38
Fiskesprett, that's why I said we should extend at least 2 of their contracts if we can?
09 Oct 2024 14:20:52
Magico - also McMahon, houghton, ablett, burrows, Gillespie etc all in space of a year. McMahon was mom for many games after for city, houghton for Villa, Beardsley was awesome for Newcastle. Problem was Kenny had let the squad age and we were going down hill from 1990/ 91 but it wasn’t unresolvable. Souness made mistake after mistake and replaced still fantastic players with 2-3 years left at the top far too quickly and his replacements weren't good. Rushie and Barnes were also at the end of their careers. I was gutted when Kenny sold Aldridge but he was never going to play over Rushie even if he deserved to. Aldo got 60 odd goals in 2 seasons and him Barnes and Beardsley were on fire 87-89. You could be right if those 4 players leave and are replaced with the equivalent quality of the Souness signings we will be back in the wilderness again.
09 Oct 2024 15:26:40
Torben Piechnik anyone?.
09 Oct 2024 14:11:55
Ed025, I think we're in a pretty strong position financially though. Especially after such a modest summer this year. I don't see why we can't replace 3 or 4 key players over 2 or 3 years. As long as we can stagger it and not lose them all in one hit, I don't think the money side of it is the problem.
{Ed025's Note - i disagree MK, now im not saying you are boracic lint but to replace them 3 plus maybe Alisson you are talking £300m+ mate, thats a lot even for a club of Liverpools stature, and you have to factor in the chance that 1 maybe 2 of them dont work, just my opinion of course..
09 Oct 2024 15:49:47
Clearly you don't remember. Houghton left in 92, Rush 96, Barnes 97, they weren't even close to leaving at the same time and Rush and Barnes were well on the decline when they left. Embarrassing.
09 Oct 2024 15:58:11
I thought the Georgian goalkeeper is Alison’s replacement or have I missed something? Bradley would be Trent’s replacement for sure. Trent has 1 premier league assist so far this season. It also didn’t really work inverting him last season. I’d keep him but either we are not getting the best from him or he’s not as good as everyone thinks. Leaving Salah and vvd to find replacements for. Chiesa might come good and Diaz played on the right when Salah was rightly subbed last game. Leaves VVD for me - give him 2 year contract.
09 Oct 2024 17:24:23
Souness took over an ageing team that needed investing in, unfortunately he did it wtong.
09 Oct 2024 18:54:19
Does anyone really think that Real would pay a big fee for TAA last summer or that he would forsake a big signing on fee so that Liverpool could get a transfer fee to buy a replacement?
And prospective buyers will also be looking at Salah and VVD's ages and contract situation and the players will also be aware of a big signing on fee if they were to leave on frees. Who can blame them?
I don't think bigger clubs are as concerned about clawing back money on players like Salah and VVD as they used to be. They've been superb servants so let them have another nice payday.
Ideally, I'd like them to stay for another season or two. What we have got for them anyway? £50/ 60m each?
It'd be worth giving up £100/ 120m to keep them for at least two more seasons. What would replacements cost and would they be as good?
09 Oct 2024 19:09:02
Ed025, surely Marmadashvili is Alisson’s replacement and Bradley is virtually everyone’s tip for Trent’s replacement. They don’t have to be as good right away. It is up to guys like Konate, Gravenberch, Macca, Szoboszlai, Gakpo, Diaz etc to step up and become the new stars of the team. Many posters and Editors wanted Bradley to start at right back anyway this season, even if it meant putting Trent in midfield. So we only need to replace Salah and Virgil in reality but I still remain optimistic they will sign short term extensions. Given they only cost us about £110m to sign, I fail to see how it will cost £300m to replace them both. Even with inflation, nobody is paying £300m for two players, not even City, PSG or Madrid. I think you’ve got your blue hat on and are looking at this from an overly negative point of view. We’re very financially stable and in recent years when it has been needed we’ve gone and spent big money on £50-85m players (Nunez, Szoboszlai, Diaz, Gakpo etc) . I don’t think our ability to spend is going to suddenly fall off a cliff. That’s just wishful thinking from rival fans desperate to see us collapse.
This site is literally the only place where there is such a weird panic, drama and obsession about the contract situations. Everywhere else is full of optimism and excitement. All eras come to an end and we were never going to keep hold of all of Klopp’s players. Trent is the only slight disappointment, because he has years ahead of him and is a local lad. He might yet stay anyway though, but I just think the Madrid move feels like it’s going to happen. It’s very odd how upset people are on here, either way. It’s as if we’ve never had to replace a good player ?.
{Ed025's Note - i take exception that you think is because im a blue and want you to fail MK...thats not my bag at all mate, if you are all happy with the way things have been handled then thats fine with me, im just expressing an opinion..
09 Oct 2024 19:28:35
To be fair to Souness he helped bring through Fowler and McManaman.
09 Oct 2024 20:02:41
This being the Ian Rush who left the club and scored a simply staggering 5 goals over the next two seasons?
That Fowler and Stan scored 48 goals between them in all comps the year after?
What a completely barmy statement.
09 Oct 2024 20:45:09
It is a bit of a moronic statement to be fair.
You could’ve pick any players from the 80s and 90s so why Barnes, Houghton and Rush? None of them were at their peak when they left and Barnes and Rush especially were a spent force.
We’ve lost much better players and still been successful.
Our demise in the 90s was not just because we lost 3 players anyway it was much more complicated than that. The ownership, the manager, the formation of the Premier League to name but a few reasons.
Hillsborough had a huge effect on a lot of the players and especially on Kenny, forcing him to eventually step down. It also had a huge effect on us as fans because of the emotion of the day itself and the travesties that followed it. I knew people who were there and to be honest winning football matches wasn’t the be all end all for a long time for a lot of us.
To just pin it on losing 3 ageing players who didn’t all leave at the same time is clutching at straws I think.
09 Oct 2024 20:53:39
Ed025 is very objective and always gives a well balanced reasoned argument imo. I am as annoyed as anyone re the contract situation. I am wondering what Slott has to say and the people in new positions of power, I too think that some players are waiting to see how the new regime performs and their place in it. The lure of Real Madrid is difficult to ignore I would think. Hope I am wrong …… ps I was gutted when we sold Beardsley at the time amongst others….
{Ed025's Note - cheers DER..
09 Oct 2024 21:29:30
Lack of an elite goalkeeper from Grobs to AB was a major part of the 30 year title drought . Man utd had world cup and euro winners, rarely ever dipping below world class, whilst Liverpool dragged on with the likes of Karius, Mignolet and a first choice keeper with the nickname "calamity" . It's not the only reason but as an example I believe if it wasn't for Pickford Everton would've been relegated seasons ago , and De Gea kept Man Utd respectable . I could cite a fair few more but I'm already boring myself.
09 Oct 2024 22:19:50
So when we are talking about keepers are we forgetting treble winning Westerveld, European cup winning Dudek and FA Cup and three time golden glove winner Pepe Reina?
Now I accept none of them are near Ali’s level but the idea we haven’t had good keepers in that timeframe is insane. Particularly regarding Pepe.
And please don’t ever compare Pickford and Ali in the same elite bracket. Jordan is a good keeper but let’s be realistic here.
09 Oct 2024 23:14:24
When did Ian Rush score five goal over two seasons, Wassa?
09 Oct 2024 23:29:20
After he left us Rigsby. For Newcastle and Leeds.
Scored three for Leeds in 96/ 97 and two for Newcastle in 97/ 98.
09 Oct 2024 23:46:14
If TAA goes he will need replacing.
Bradley can't play every game next season and the scottish lad Calvin is both unproven and injury prone.
09 Oct 2024 23:46:27
Wassa I totally agree that we haven’t had a decent keeper for a long time until Ali.
I’d go back even further than Grobellar to Clemence being our last world class keeper before we signed Ali.
Grobs, Pepe and Sander were decent but nowhere near world class. Dudek was ok and the other keepers we’ve had have been awful.
Like I said in my previous post there are many, many reasons why we didn’t win the league for 30 years and the lack of a top keeper is another one of them.
You can win leagues with a good, not great keeper but the rest of the team need to be exceptional and until recently we hadn’t had that since the 80s.
10 Oct 2024 07:19:46
Ta, Wassa ?.
It sort of proves the point that he was well past his best when he left us. Like Barnes, he was playing a lot deeper later in his career, too.
I watched him playing for Wrexham at the end of the 90's playing in midfield.
You can't compare him to Salah yet.
10 Oct 2024 07:59:59
Grobs was a poor goalkeeper about as poor as James but he had an amazing defence in front of him, something James never had. Both good at diving to make saves / save penalties but couldn’t catch a cross. Cost us many games. I didn’t rate Reina, another one good shot / penalty stopper but poor at everything else. Just need to watch the West Ham cup final to sun Reina lfc career up in one game. Mignolet was awful, Dudek was ok. I don’t remember Clemence so Ali is greatest I’ve seen for lfc.
10 Oct 2024 08:55:17
You can sum up Reina's Liverpool career by one game. He was a top goalkeeper.
I wonder how many world class goalkeepers are around at any one time.
10 Oct 2024 08:55:46
Sorry, you CAN'T sum up Reina's Liverpool career in one game.
10 Oct 2024 16:09:40
So now we're down to slagging our legends like grob? Was a fantastic keeper and great personality. To put him in conversation with James and sander is very disrespectful in my opinion. To also say he had a brilliant defence in front of him, fully agree but that's when football was football. Not this Nancy stuff we see now. John Barnes was brilliant to the day he left. Sounesss biggest mistake was beardsley for me.
10 Oct 2024 17:01:08
Grobs was an ever present for well over 5 years. Over 400 club appearances winning titles Domestic cups and European Cups
Do you think a multiple title winning team with managers like Paisley, Fagan and Dalglish wouldn’t replace him with someone better?
10 Oct 2024 23:39:59
Grobs was a decent keeper Ron, but you only had to look across Stanley Park to Southall to know that Grobs was nowhere near the best keeper in his time.
He was helped by having brilliant teams in front of him but I grew up during the 80s and he was always known as a loose cannon and was known for his rash mistakes.
It’s not disrespectful or a slight on his legacy at the club (he did that himself after he left) to say that he wasn’t the best. He wasn’t but he still did a decent job for us and should be remembered fondly.
11 Oct 2024 00:05:50
@WarMachine, Souness was a very poor manager - he was far too self satisfied with himself to be of use to anybody. That said, the people at fault, as @Drogie says, were the people running the club poorly. Hiring Souness for the role was a very bad decision but wasn’t there only mistake and it was probably stuff they actually didn’t do that was the biggest problem.
11 Oct 2024 18:33:31
Well that caused a storm lol john barnes left in 97 der is that not in the 90s. I never said they all left at the same time the three players were important to our team sucsess winning leagues and cups. Also look at other post the quality of players brought in and i agree about the keeper position . Souness was at lfc wrong time wrong place plus his artical in the **** went against him.