22 Oct 2024 23:13:42
Webb could put every premier league referee in a room to watch the same videos of incidents on the pitch and i bet they will not all be on the same page with their explanation of the decision they would have taken.
That is why VAR is not working. VAR is not wrong, it is the human side that is failing.
How can they justify the two decisions on the last man fouls one off one left on both very much the same incident.
22 Oct 2024 23:27:57
What makes you think that there isn't a human side to VAR?
Is it because the VAR is human?
23 Oct 2024 02:33:35
um, I think you answered your own question in your opening line.
that is the issue with subjective calls, it will be difficult to get consistent all the time so we should change that expectation.
23 Oct 2024 03:02:53
VAR literally means Video Assistant Referee. It’s not some robot it’s just a person sitting in a room watching a tv screen.
23 Oct 2024 05:27:20
you will always get differences when it comes to grey areas. Its the black and white decisions that they should get right consistently - and that is a lot easier to do when they don't start twisting the rulebook in all sorts of directions.
23 Oct 2024 07:07:21
I think there’s a significant difference between making contact with the ball and winning the ball.
With the officials pathway now so long never has it been more evident that everyone in charge has never actually played the game at any level as an adult so they have zero concept of the game as a player.
23 Oct 2024 08:17:16
It’s corrupt. Open to abuse disguised as human error. Not just saying that because it went against us. Arsenal fans must be livid too. The law is the law there should be no human error know the rules and apply them. If then they make a mistake relegate them for a year. Keep them on there toes and strict.
23 Oct 2024 10:21:22
So a human decides whether another has made a human error?
23 Oct 2024 10:53:19
And why would Webb do any of that to his good ol' boys? That would be him doing his actual job. Wouldn't hold my breathe for that ever happening.
23 Oct 2024 10:58:45
VAR is a human using technology to aid him in making decisions that in turn should aid the human refereeing the game in order to ensure the correct outcome more regularly. The concept is sound but unfortunately there are too many problems.
1. The standard of refereeing in this country is abysmal and only getting worse and these are the humans fulfilling the roles of referee and VAR.
2. Inconsistency - these humans can have similar incidents minutes apart and decide on completely different outcomes so clearly either they are not fit to referee or the guidance provided by PGMOL is not fit for purpose.
3. The inability of these humans to understand the phrase "clear and obvious error". If you need to watch numerous replays in slow motion for several minutes to come to a decision that divides opinion then it is not a clear and obvious error and they should not be getting involved.
4. No accountability - The PGMOL is so protective of their inept referees that there is absolutely no incentive for them to perform well. The whole PGMOL needs rebuilding from the ground up with competent people in charge.
So in summary, I agree with the OP. VAR is a great idea and the technology is great but the problem is the clowns involved in using it.
23 Oct 2024 13:39:06
Aye Shipley, I agree. VAR itself is a useful tool but is simply being misused.
1. Decisions in one match occur, the likes of Mike Dean, Dermot Gallagher et al praise the 'correct decision' given and explain why, according to the rules, it was correct - then a near identical incident happens, the complete opposite decision is given and yet this too is praised by the same people as being 'correct' and again the explain why, according to the same rules - it is blooming crazy.
2. Clear and Obvious - on paper this sounds good, VAR should only get involved in certain decisions - ref misses a deliberate handball in the box, challenge was much more reckless than the ref saw or perhaps didn't see due to the speed of the game, people in the way - not a bother with VAR getting involved there. However, VAR seems to pick and choose incidents (perhaps depending on the VAR official at the time? ) and some of these it should not be involved in at all - the likes of the Jones penalty for example, usually contact like that is given as a penalty, fans argue soft etc but usually if it is given VAR does not intervene, likewise if it isn't given, VAR does not intervene as it is too subjective and not really enough in it to identify a clear mistake has been made. yet the fact is that VAR will and will not involve itself in such identical situations, and this again leads to calls over consistency - a wise little fella once said 'do, or do not. ' lol
3. And again we have the consistency - how someone can look at the exact same replays each of us see at home and still come to the wrong decision is remarkable:
-Cucarella getting trailed down by the hair? VAR: awk my mate has had a tough game already, nah man, nothing to see there.
- Onana cleaning out two Wolves defenders and getting nowhere near the ball? VAR: nah, nothing to see there.
- MacAllister getting kicked, something akin to a move from the Karate kid, in the ribs in the box? VAR: nah, nothing to see here either.
I could go on and on, but the issue is the consistency. It is worth noting though that some of the officials are actually very good and you never have any of these crazy decisions in their matches, it seems to be the same officials involved in the issues highlighted every week. That seems a basic retraining/ performance management excercise yet the PGMOL just doesn't? That's what I don't understand, I understand from an institutional point refereee's trying to cover for other refs and have their back but surely their bosses would manage their performances?
Your last point is bang on Shipley, accountability is completely non-existant and as such will lead to officials being criticised to a degree that nobody will want to ref a game at all - if they truly want to protect the refs and their own reputation then manage those bad apples - every other workplace in the world has to engage in people management.