14 Aug 2024 15:03:23
No such thing as current 'priority position. ' Zubimendi was explored based purely on info from agents and not initially of major consideration. Explored based on new system being implemented, previous concentration was on defensivly minded midfielders.
Was seen as a good addition rather than necessity. Current view is to allow manager to work with squad, plenty of midfielders. Primary goal is champs league. Defender being looked at, younger, who can cover left back too, again not priority. Experienced defender will be looked at dependant on Gomez.
No bridges burnt with Diaz, however, Gordan will be persued dependant on asking price/ structure. Still seen as doable due to Newcastles pursuit of Guehi.
No panic in terms of squad, current midfield team seen as still developing and stronger from last seasons experience.
Nunez not seen as starting 9, seen as most likely looking to replace next summer, dependant on this seasons performance.
Anticipation of Saudi bids in coming days for Salah/ Virgil. Virgil will be rejected under 100mil, no interest in selling. Salah anticipated 75mil bid, this will be looked at to reach 100mil with add ons.
No sales if they do as last summer and bid last minute.
14 Aug 2024 15:17:23
im out saturday night does that crystal ball say if im getting a blonde or brunette.
14 Aug 2024 15:20:31
The Saudi's love a last minute, disruptive bid. and i laugh that no one watches their league, or even reports on it.
No signings would throw down the gauntlet to the whole squad. Who steps up, who need's to be moved on.
By then Zubi may find an escape route.
We'll sign the Georgian keeper, the sell CK for a similar fee. Ali can leave if and when he wants to without any major stress.
Lets give the new transfer team a chance before we put the boot in.
14 Aug 2024 15:59:04
“current midfield team seen as still developing and stronger from last seasons experience”
Experience or not, better opponents will still be able to happily stroll through the midfield like they aren’t there. We’re about as solid as a house made of balsa wood and tissue paper built on quicksand through the middle.
14 Aug 2024 15:43:34
You've just got to laugh at the meltdown. We signed 4 midfielders 12 months ago. 3 of them (Macca, Gravenberch and Szoboszlai) are 22-25 years old, cost around £140m combined and look set to start at Ipswich. The other (Endo) is a squad player if he does stay and a leader in the dressing room. We also have spent the last few years hoovering up talented young midfielders from other sides (Bajcetic from Celta Vigo, Nyoni from Leicester, McConnell from Sunderland etc) . We then have Morton who joined our own academy at 6/ 7 years old and has had back to back successful loans at Blackburn and Hull which is a higher level than Quansah and Bradley were on loan at before they came back and took Anfield by storm.
Like you say, Zubimendi seemed more of an opportunistic signing than a drastic need. I think people will calm down after the Ipswich game. Most people don't watch pre-season games so they simply don't understand what Slot is trying to implement in midfield and why we don't need an athlete who runs around kicking people.
I also cannot understand why people think Mac Allister and Gravenberch can't play deep when they both did it where they earned their stripes. Macca played deep for Brighton next to Bissouma in 21/ 22, then next to Caicedo in 22/ 23. He occasionally stepped forward into the no.10 role too but he was predominantly a midfielder. Gravenberch almost exclusively played deep for Ajax though. He sat in next to Klaasen in 20/ 21, then next to Alvarez in 21/ 22. To suggest these players can't succeed in a system very similar to systems they already have succeeded in just comes off as overly emotional whining.
14 Aug 2024 16:09:57
MK Macca played a DM many times last season and was caught out again and again. He had a few good games but he had a few stinkers. His best games were when Endo played deep and he got on the ball carrying it forward. I’m convinced Gravenberch can’t play as a DM as he’s done nothing to convince me he can control a game. He had a decent pre season game and that’s it. Again just calling it how I see it, does this mean I want Liverpool to sign Zidane, no, but I firmly believe that are other players who would improve the squad within our budget.
14 Aug 2024 16:20:33
I don't think people really understand the sort of player Zubimendi is, either, MK, people think he's a 6 who shields the defence, and to some extent he does that, but he's not some sort defensively-minded player who stops other teams from playing through the middle in transition, if Liverpool want Zubimendi it's for his qualities in the build-up and in possession, to orchestrate play from deep. Is he an intelligent footballer who can anticipate play from a defensive standpoint and win the ball? Yes he can, but the biggest reason why Liverpool want him is for his ability to turn defense into attack in an instant, and not to put out fires in the middle of the park like so many posters are asking for.
Incidentally, Mac Allister and Gravenberch also have the capacity to do that, maybe not on the same level and with the same artistry, but we have to understand what it is that Slot actually wants his pivot to be able to accomplish before crying out for some steel in midfield.
That being said, I will be as dismayed as anybody if we don't sign anyone and I would shudder to imagine that this was the plan all along- buy somebody like Zubimendi if he somehow becomes available but otherwise do nothing to address other needs in the squad.
14 Aug 2024 16:30:10
MK expecting the club to strengthen and show ambition to actually win the league is not fan having a meltdown. City are yet to really strengthen and have de bruyne and walker both on the decline and lost Alvarez. This is as good a chance as any to address to issues we all know we have in the team and try and win the league.
Yes Grav, szob and Mac are fine and all good players but we need a more defensive minded midfielder comfortable receiving the ball on the half turn or with back to goal which Endo and Mac have shown they cannot do.
We also need to sort Trent and Virg out and should be looking to sign a back up CB who can challenge quansah and Konate with a view to taking Virg’s place in the future and a RW to challenge Salah and rotate this season when Salah invariably goes through his bad patch after Xmas. I think we have a right to demand that we show ambition and go to win the league. The lack of understanding of this ambition and urgency shown to address it has been poor since we won the league from whoever was been dealing with transfers imo.
14 Aug 2024 16:56:46
I love how MK takes the time to post and explain why he thinks both Macca and Grav could (indeed should) work together and compliment each, citing historical evidence and the very next post claims Macca cannot play DM because he gets caught unless he plays with Endo.
I guess you cannot win all the time MK but it’s a great post.
Frode how about Slot may know better and wants to play 2 players who can disrupt and pass a ball, with a double pivot in midfield rather than someone who kicks people up in the air and is rubbish on the ball? Something both players have done in the past.
14 Aug 2024 17:07:46
Okay StEtienne, I’m citing historical evidence e. g last season. If you’re trying to convince me that Macca played well there last season like MK did you’re deluded. Like I said he had a few good games but a few stinkers also… is that wrong. Or am I wrong for citing he played better further forward or am I not giving enough evidence for you there too?
Gravenberch… citing a short period in his Ajax days, he was rubbish for Bayern and he’s been poor for us. Do I think he can turn it around? I hope so. Again… not enough evidence or is my post too negative?
{Ed025's Note - i think you are spot on FK..
14 Aug 2024 17:23:18
Spot on FK re Mac Allister and Gravenberch. Brummyred too; I don't expect us to win as much silverware as we did when I was a kid, but 1 league title in 34 isn't what dreams are made of. Would love to see the owners be more ambitious to be honest, but I just don't think that's their #1 priority. $orry.
14 Aug 2024 17:23:24
OP I know that's not written by Hughes himself but if it was that would be a man coasting through his job instead of planning the future and looking to win silverware.
Ah, I was contacted by an agent so I explored it. Nothing doing.
Might get some late bids for Salah and Virg. Did nothing on contracts but will ask top dollar. If they go, will look to Gordon at a certain price. Otherwise, we all make do.
This is not running a lemonade stand. I would expect detailed planning. Identifying where players heads are at on contracts and making moves accordingly. Not waiting for last minute bids. My God.
Anyway, I know I'm not doing a good job of holding my fire till September 1st with Hughes. Hold it in Davey. And breathe.
I thought Schmadtke was horrendous.
Hughes might surpass him if he doesn't start working the lazy sod.
14 Aug 2024 17:43:35
So those games Macca had a stinker at 6. Did he play alongside anybody or, as Klopps formation pretty much also was, was he on his tod?
MKs point was that both Macca and Gravenberch have played well in that position previously alongside somebody. Not on their own. You aren’t wrong Frode that he did struggle in that position in the first half of the season but he was essentially being shoved into a Fabinho type role on his own that he wasn’t suited for. That’s not the way Slot sets his teams up. He sets them in a fashion that both of them have already played well in. That was MKs point.
14 Aug 2024 17:55:32
You're right about Macca last season Frode. But it's a new system where Macca isn't playing as a holding mid. I would have liked a 6. but only the right 6 and if Zubimendi isn't available and the club don't believe their are any top class players out there (because they are the calibre players we should be targetring) then we wait until the right player is available.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out for Slot with this system.
14 Aug 2024 18:08:23
Wassa, took the words out of my mouth.
Scenario here, I'm sure people will think I am deluded or an FSG apologist, but it's a theory I have been mulling.
Hughes said our transfers were opportunistic right now - makes perfect sense by the way, given the manager is new and most players didn't start training (and therefore being coached by the manager) until the last couple of weeks.
Also makes sense that a new manager won't be acquiring too many players in his first window. Some may argue "look at Chelsea" or "look at Newcastle", well they have significantly underperformed and their squads (alongside United's) have been a shambles. Our squad finished 3rd last season and were top with 6-7 weeks to go.
Am I happy about finishing 3rd? Of course not, I want to win it. But Slot is in a far better position than Marsca, for example.
Let's also not forget Klopp's first few transfers. Granted his first window was a January one, but in Jan 16 he bought Grujic and loaned Caulker.
In his first summer window, he brought in Mane and Wijnaldum alongside Klavan and Karius. By that time he had had almost 8 months with the existing squad.
So, going back to the "we need a DM argument". If Slot played with 1 holding midfielder, then you're right, we do need an upgrade on Endo (whether its a youth player stepping up or a purchase) .
But he doesn't, he plays with 2. And as Adam and Wassa (and Ed001 on another post on the Banter page) said, but Macca and Gravenberch are comfortable playing a double pivot and have done so in the past. Add in Bajcetic (now fit), Jones, Morton (if he's still here) and we have 4-5 players for 2 roles. The more advanced midfield role has Elliot and Szobozlai to compete over it, and we have depth in players from our Academy like Nyoni, McConnell and Clark (if he's still here) . Then we've got our forward players to compete over 2-3 roles up front.
I remain disappointed that we haven't sorted out contracts for 3 first teamers, including our highest goal scorer, captain and vice.
I also think Matip should be replaced and wait to see what happens with SVDB. I'd love to get Branthwaite as an heir to VVD, but that's probably a pipe dream.
We're certainly not short in midfield, and we must remember that Slot doesn't play the same way as Klopp.
{Ed025's Note - good and very fair post that Zed..
14 Aug 2024 18:12:58
Is the OP StanUA with a different username having another random guess?
14 Aug 2024 19:09:53
@mystic red . It says Ginger . 48in chest . goes by the name of Brian.
14 Aug 2024 19:09:57
I’ve got a bad feeling Becker and Virgil are going to Saudi in the next few weeks.
Hopefully Salah doesn’t join them.
14 Aug 2024 19:40:01
Baj is far from real match fitness he has played about 100mins of football in over 12 months. It will be a good few weeks before he is ready to start matches. As for the current midfield we shall soon find out.
I reckon our forwards are going to have to score bagfuls because I just can’t see how we can keep clean sheets.
14 Aug 2024 19:41:09
Exactly Zed, we have a lot of depth already in midfield. Let's hope this is Jones and Grav's season or we unearth yet another diamond within that upcoming crop.
Of course if the Zubi deal went through we'd be in a better position that is clear but I believe we can still compete for everything with our current crop especially within Slots system as I think the double pivot plays into the strengths of our current CMs a lot more than Klopp's system.
Let's see how things go, a CB would be good if SVB leaves.
A young RW as future Salah replacement would also be important.
Oh Trent's Contract is essential. I'm resigned to Salah leaving, in my head Virg is 50/ 50 But I guess nobody knows that unless Virg himself!
We don't ask for much do we haha.
14 Aug 2024 19:42:51
Midfields are one of the biggest jigsaws in football, ours is good and has capacity to get much better. However we are missing a certain kind of player for balance, have been for a while regardless of tactics and it shows in whoever plays because they're doing things that don't come natural to them and may never will.
Not saying we do need to go out and panic buy for the sake of it but we do need something eventually to complete the puzzle.
14 Aug 2024 20:28:38
Frode, to be 100% clear, nowhere did I say Macca played well last season as a lone 6. I said he played well in a double pivot at Brighton with two different partners. You have spectacularly missed the point, just like you did last time you tried to goad me into an argument.
14 Aug 2024 20:52:51
Trouble is, Fried Kippers doesn't seem to understand tactics. Every window he just comes out and complains that his stocking is too empty.
14 Aug 2024 21:23:48
Ron Keague- Virgil could pick any club from next summer, including the pib league in SA, if that's what he wants. There is just no need for him to go there now.
Keepers go on for years, and Ali has a big chunk of his career ahead. I just don't see him being ready for zero competition/ small crowds in the name of cash. The cash will be there until the oil dries up.
14 Aug 2024 21:25:26
Wharton would be a good pick for that spot. He is from Blackburn so knows the North and would have a better chance of settling in that Zubi.
I'd be up for throwing a wedge down for Wharton.
15 Aug 2024 05:06:03
This new manager thing and implying opportunistic approach for the DM position is nonsense. The whole idea of this new structure at the top and appointing him as a coach is to avoid things like this. Slot was trying multiple players in that position, and it’s clear for anyone to see that we need a natural holding midfielder who can get into the starting 11 immediately . May be one excuse that makes sense to me is that the kind of holding midfielder/ DM he wants is different from the type klopp would go for. He wants someone who is calm and comfortable with holding the ball, not necessarily exceptional with energy and tackles. He wants someone more like Alonso and less like Masccerano. And if they say there aren’t many players out there with those qualities and the team was scouting for a different type of holding midfielder, it makes sense.
And I would say the same thing for the defense, why wait for to completely rebuild next season? The Italian defender that went to Arsenal and Yoro are exactly the type of defenders we need, I don’t know if Inacio and Hicapie are available but I bet we don’t consider them opportunistic businesses as well.
15 Aug 2024 06:47:28
In fairness I think every player would have had a few stinkers here or there last season.
You could probably watch every City and Arsenal game back and find that their players didn’t perform 8 and 9’s every week.
15 Aug 2024 09:50:45
All in all, great thread this. Cheers lads. Keep up the good work.